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Luxury Performance Sedans



  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yes the new G's interior is mightly improved. The M's interior doesn't do anything for me though, its the big ATM like buttons I think.

  • Sales (US):

    "AUBURN HILLS, MI – Audi of America, Inc. set sales records during December 2006 and for the calendar year 2006, eclipsing the previous annual sales high set three years ago. Audi sold 11,897 vehicles in December, bringing the brand’s annual total sales to 90,116.

    Audi’s December 2006 record sales were 34.6% ahead of year-ago sales. The calendar year sales represented an 8.5% increase over 2005."

    Followed by:

    "Audi A6 Is Number One in Germany - Sport and dynamics paired with high-quality functionality: that is the secret to success of the AUDI A6. This combination makes the Audi Germany’s best-selling vehicle for the first ten months of 2006 in its segment. Both with the new registrations in the over-all passenger car market in Germany the AUDI A6 has a nose in front of the competition as well as in fleet business in the executive-class category. 52,299 AUDI A6s were registered in the first ten months of 2006 in Germany."

    Audi USA (and Audi generally) probably wishes for BMW and Mercedes (USA) numbers, but overall, I would assume Audi (here and there) execs are celebrating. Don't cry for me Argentina, er, or something like that.

    Torque Vectoring:

    I am ONLY a couple of paragraphs more (apparently) into reading about TVT than some other folks, so that makes my observation worth about $.02. But, the first MULE using the TVT is an Audi (the technology will be able to be purchased and installed in other mfgr's products, this is NOT solely an Audi thing, i.e.) The company's web site and all the press kit info I can find does not lead one to the conclusion that this is NOT a full time AWD system.

    My interpretation is that it seems somewhat like the reverse of ESP in that ESP works mainly by braking one or more wheels and/or cutting power in an attempt to control yaw or rate of yaw. The TVT seems to be to be able to take quattro (et al) at least one or two steps better (again, kind of like what ESP did -- it took ABS a step or three better.) This means "active, anticipatory, instantaneous torque distribution" -- power is distributed to the wheels based on the driver's intentions as telegraphed and detected via hardware and software, etc. If I said any more at this point it would go from some speculation to a "lot" of speculation. The company's web site, written by an engineer apparently, does not, to me, suggest anything less than full AWD would be the consequence of Audi's adoption of TVT.


    The 3.6L is already putting out 280HP, my guess is that will be the smallest rating of this engine we will ever see in a (US bound, at least) Audi so equipped. I dunno about anything for sure for sure actually being turbo'd, I would just like to have the chance to buy a 3.2T FSI someday. Who knows?

    Yep, 4" is the engine set back I have read about, too.

    A better balanced Audi? That would seem to me to be very able to threaten the Munich guys, just a tad. :surprise:
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    I'd say the new G's interior is actually better than the M's.
  • I agree. The M's -- at the time when it was NEW -- used to be so much nicer than the G's (which was really kinda cheapo looking), now, not so much.

    And the beat goes on.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    'd say the new G's interior is actually better than the M's.

    You may be right about that. The M has almost all of its secondary controls on the top panel, which isn't really ideal. The G has just the NAV buttons on the little panel below the NAV screen, with the audio and climate controls where they should be. The new VW-ish gauges are also much better than the old orange ones. I think the G and 3 series currently have the best in class interiors, while the M's is somewhere in the middle.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,591
    I'll respectfully disagree re: G vs TL interiors. One of the reasons I chose the '05 TL (non-nav. Yes, it is just slightly less graceful sans the nav-screen. Plain, but functional) over the '05 G was the interior. I found the TL to be of higher quality materials and more ergonomically and stylistically pleasing. I do wish the TL had a couple of the Gs interior features, notably the adjustable steering wheel/instrument pod and moreso the driver's seat ingress/egress feature (my Chrysler 300M had that!). The Gs seat may have been a bit better padded, too, but not enough to sway me. I'm not a fan of the TL "plood," hence my interior choice included the faux carbon fiber (with real aluminum).

    Exterior too. I find the TL to be a very handsome, agressive design. Especially for a Honda!!!

    New G, big improvement. If the '08 CTS is anything like the '07 SRX, big improvement (I love nicely styled analog clocks!). And yes, Audi and Lexus interiors can be things of beauty. But I don't think the TL interior is wildly outclassed by any of 'em. Especially the BMW 3. Quality materials but a bit of a depressing presentation.

    YMMV and does... :)

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    I suck at posting links, sorry. It says that the A5 will be introduced at the Geneva show. The suspension/setup will have selections for understeer, or oversteer. I guess done electronically, via a switch?

    Anyway, cool car. Can't wait to read about. Anyone else excited, Mark?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Especially the BMW 3. Quality materials but a bit of a depressing presentation.

    I only like the 3 series in tan leather with the natural wood finish. I'm not a fan of the black\black\black combo of many recent BMWs, its like a cave.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I'd say the new G's interior is actually better than the M's.

    It definitely is from a styling standpoint, I haven't been in the new G to see if the materials are. They got rid of the big ATM buttons for one thing.

  • I may be wrong, but I think the praise for the G interior is for the new, refreshed for '07 iteration.

    I would agree, the '05 G wasn't exactly in the near LPS league. And, were it not for the torque steer (my wife and I had tested a fully optioned manual transmission version of the Acura -- on a rainy day) well the Acura probably would have been a contender, even without AWD.

    The thing had torque steer second only to an old Saab Aero we tested -- the steering wheel simply made "suggestions" to the front end. Sometimes it took the suggestion, on a rain slicked road, not so much.
  • "That Audi number is somewhat of a letdown, such a car should sell much better than that."

    Comparos, such as that in Car and Driver this month, might, gradually shift place of A6 in minds of LPS buyers. MB E63 AMG and Audi S6 rated well ahead of M5. S6 summed up as "a fast and sexy sweetheart priced to near irresistibility." Main negative: underpowered. Mark, can you put some pressure on Audi to get us further up the ladder in the HP/torque race?
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    thanks Mark.

    Also, I started a thread on future Audi platforms if interested.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    True, but magazine comparos only carry so much weight. There are probably hundreds of thousands of car buyers that don't have a clue about C&D comparos or any other magazines for that matter. Audi's biggest problem is their image and marketing, because the cars are excellent by most measurements. Audi just needs more exposure, to get on more luxury car buyers shopping lists. We can debate the how all day long, but that is what they need.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The thing had torque steer second only to an old Saab Aero we tested -- the steering wheel simply made "suggestions" to the front end. Sometimes it took the suggestion, on a rain slicked road, not so much.

    The idea of the Type-S 6MT is just that much scarier. Somebody should do a comparison between that and the 9-3 Viggen to see who wins the award for worst torque steer ever. The TL's other big problem is its turning circle, 40ft in standard guise. I'm sure the Type-S is much worse. My wife's RX300 was about the same, that's the one thing she always hated about the car.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,591
    I agree that the TLs turning radius is a (minor) annoyance, it is large! As is torque steer, which by all reports is much, much less noticeable in the slushbox TL vs. the stick. I believe that every review mentions that fact. But, as a FWD driver all my life, it doesn't really bother me. I am just aware of it, so if it's time to light 'em up, well, I hold on! I've driven/owned Saabs, all naturally aspirated 4s, so torque steer really was never an issue there...!

    Yes, the new G interior appears to be a big step up in my limited experience with it. But I still think the TL interior can play in the same ballpark as any of its peers. Except, of course, for the CTS. That is just in a league of its own, interior style/material-wise! :P

    My next car, maybe it's time to let go and go RWD: BMW 3 Convertible or rumored Lexus IS Convertible???

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • Until very recently, Audi, [non-permissible content removed] for tat, was bringing cars to market with BMW numbers under the hood, at least.

    The BMW 530 was making do with 225HP while the A6 was offering 255HP -- this disparity went beyond 7 months as I recall.

    The Lexus GS was really low and late to the HP race and despite a 300HP (rated) V6, the Acura RL couldn't get no respect in the grunt dept either.

    Audi, across the line, has played in the same HP league as its rivals most of the time. Indeed, for a long time an Audi 4.2L A6 was the same price as a i6 Bimmer 5 series.

    And, the Audi S6 in the comparo's is HOW many thousands OVER $10,000 less than the BMW and Merc?

    Audi still came in first and second in two auto mags comparos both times bettering in the rankings the BMW.

    Audi seems to be waiting to offer us an RS6 again, but one can only speculate that when it does it will offer wrath of god kind of HP and torque, once again upping the ante.

    Why wait?

    I dunno.

    The RS4 seems to be well respected and reviewed yet, to me, it is hard to justify its price.

    The S6, by comparison, seems like a bargain.

    My current burning concern is there is no counter-punch to the "35" BMW engine.

    The V10 S6 is the new winna and champeen from my point of view especially at its price point.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    I agree that Audi's biggest problem is exposure.

    I just sent an email to AOA railing them for their ridiculous ED program. It's not even close to BMW's in price, or content yet BMW is their biggest competitor.

    I think they shoot themselves in the foot often times by not being competitive with leasing, and such.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah I've always believed that if more people knew about and test drove an Audi they'd buy.

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