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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • A reporter from a national newspaper is hoping to talk to consumers who have been shopping for a European vehicle (BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Audi or others) and have found them to be more expensive because of the Euro exchange rates. Please reply to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Monday, October 1, 2007 with your daytime contact info.

    Karen-Edmunds Community Manager

  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    MB E-Class 4,993
    BMW 5-Series 4,055
    Lexus GS 1,668
    Infiniti M 1,380
    Audi A6 1,126
    Acura RL 357
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Interesting, it seems M-B and BMW are making a killing, at the expense of everyone else. Poor Acura...
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,258
    Just add in the September Accord sales - 35,031 and good as new! They look like twins anyway.

    Accura has been sent a message.

    Regards,
    OW
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    I'm pretty sure that Infiniti has to be disappointed with their M sales. They were usually just a tad better than the GS at around 2K units per month. Given that Nissan posted positive sales this month due to their new G35 and Altima, maybe the G35 stole a few sales.

    Whenever Americans think of LPS they generally mean German. During every month in the past two and half years, the MB and BMW have always been the top two and by a wide margin. Not sure that the Japanese brands (no matter how good) will ever touch the MB and BMW in this segment. The Acura has always had low sales but I believe this month was an all-time low.
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Here are the year to date numbers:

    BMW 5-Series 37,894
    MB E-Class 34,184
    Lexus GS 17,090
    Infiniti M 16,413
    Audi A6 8,762
    Acura RL 4,618

    Acura sells more than 5,000 MDXs every month!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I'm pretty sure that Infiniti has to be disappointed with their M sales. They were usually just a tad better than the GS at around 2K units per month. Given that Nissan posted positive sales this month due to their new G35 and Altima, maybe the G35 stole a few sales.

    Did those September figures include the updated '08 M? If not, it could just be that people were holding off for the new version. The M has beaten the GS in sales several times, but I think the GS has been ahead by a small margin the majority of the time. In September everybody was way down including Lexus, while MB and BMW were up. It is amazing that despite the fact that the E is the oldest car in the segment and about to be replaced, it still dominates the class. The Germans (except for Audi) still seem to have a lock on the mid-lux performance category. Not so much in the entry-lux category, and of course the LS outsells both the S and 7.
  • klpeelklpeel Posts: 46
    Yes, I think that the delay in the updated '08 M may be part of the answer. I'm one of those waiting for the update to be available before buying, as I'll be looking at the new M45x.
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Yes, I think that the delay in the updated '08 M may be part of the answer. I'm one of those waiting for the update to be available before buying, as I'll be looking at the new M45x.

    Didn't think about that cause but makes sense. I bought my M back in April, 2005 and took it in for service last week and while I was waiting walked around the lot and didn't see any of the 2008 M's yet. I was curious to see if the new M and new G had almost identical fronts - might be even harder to tell them apart. I believe Infiniti will be the first LPS to have all wheel drive on their V-8.

    The current issue of Consumer Reports again picked the M as the best LPS - not that this will have any influence on sales.
  • According to Infiniti-- the 2008 M is due for release on Nov. 5. Also-- 2008 Lexus GS should be out the end of this month.

    I own an Acura RL and have already noticed that the Accord looks even more like the Acura now. It is very disappointing and I will be selling my Acura. I am also waiting for the 2008 M45x to come out.
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Oops... I meant currently available.
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    Many of those are still available...
  • kgarykgary Posts: 180
    The Audi, Lexus, Mercedes are all still available.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,779
    I am surprised to see that the GS has outsold the M this year. The GS must have something going for it.

    Keep in mind that there just may be people waiting on the 08 GS as well!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

  • Hi, please can anyone advise me if it would be OK to fit new alloy wheels size 8 1/4 Jx17 H2 ET 34(235/45 ZR17 tyres) on my E class Mercedes, 1997 (W210), which currently has 15 inch alloys (205/60 15 tyres).


    The alloys I wish to fit to my car are 8 1/4 Jx17 H2 ET 34, are fitted with Dunlop 9000 tyres 235/45 ZR 17.
    Please could you tell me if this is OK to put on my 1997 E230 Mercedes saloon(210).
    The handbook says that suitable wheel & Tyres "light alloy wheel" is these cobinations 235/45 R17 93w tyre & the alloy 8 Jx 17 H2 ET37.

    Compared to the alloys I wish to fit, would the above handbook stated ones be OK on my car?? If so what differences in cars drive should be expected?

    Thank you very much
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The GS has the Lexus badge, and the Lexus dealer network, so the odds are already pretty well stacked in its favor. As for the car itself, the M has trounced the GS in every magazine test and in CR as well. If Infiniti had the same number of dealers as Lexus and the same badge prestige, I would bet that the GS would lose badly in sales as well. In any case, sales is of course no measure of quality.

    Except for the GS460, everything else about the '08 GS is a carryover, so I don't see why people would be holding out for the new one, other than the few hundred that buy the V8. I guess we'll have to wait and see if the updated M is enough to push it over the top.
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    Sounds like you're not in the USA, but that doesn't matter...what will fit is based on the car, not where you are. 17" wheels can fit, but not sure about those. In running the numbers, it looks like the 15" vs 17" in the size you indicate has the 17" version 13% smaller in rotating diameter, so that would make a huge difference in the gearing and speedometer/odometer...I don't think you'd be happy.

    When you go to a bigger wheel/tire, the ride generally gets worse but the handling can improve.

    A good place to investigate tire/wheel combinations, even if you can't buy them there, is www.tirerack.com. What you are interested in is +2 sizing, if you have 15" on there now.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,779
    If Infiniti had the same number of dealers as Lexus and the same badge prestige, I would bet that the GS would lose badly in sales as well. In any case, sales is of course no measure of quality.

    Pure speculation and perhaps wishful thinking on your part. If someone wants to buy an M, I am sure they can find a dealer.

    The M is edgier than the GS but IMO it is not as refined, its styling is dated, and it just doesn't look as good. I think that probably these are the real reasons it is being outsold by the GS.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Pure speculation and perhaps wishful thinking on your part. If someone wants to buy an M, I am sure they can find a dealer.

    Perhaps there may be some truth to that. Infiniti has more than I thought, 165 compared to 202 for Lexus according to AutoDealerBase.

    I like the M's aggressiveness. If I wanted a sedan with a quiet, cushy, and dull ride I'd buy an LS, not a GS. The two issues I had with the M's looks were the orange gauges and the too big taillights, both fixed for '08. I'm also happy to see Infiniti offering the sport package on the AWD cars. Not a fake one like BMW that's just seats and wheels - the same equipment that the RWD cars get. Now if only they'd bring over that Piano black trim from Japan...
  • I am in my early 50's, live in the NE (south of Boston), and am looking to buy an LPS to keep as long as possible - once my wife's car is paid off in early 2008. I have owned quite a few cars and trucks over the years (Toyota Supra and 4runner, Porsche 914 2.0, BMW 320i, Lexus GS300 Sport Design, Nissan 300Z, and others) and am actually getting tired of the car buying routine, so I am hoping to buy and keep my next car for as many miles as I can - over 200k or more if possible. I am not a high mileage driver (12k a year at most). My wife is not into cars and is leaving the decision entirely up to me, though spending over 60K on a car might become an issue...

    I would like something that is fun to drive, comfortable, has navigation and great audio, and is safe in the winter. I am leaning towards an all wheel drive. So far I have test driven a BMW 535xi (loved driving it but didn't have time to play with the idrive) and the Lexus GS350 awd (which have cool gadgets but seemed a bit cramped and didn't put a smile on my face while driving it like the BMW did). The M and G Infiniti's don't do much for me looks wise and the gas mileage is pretty bad for a car that I plan on keeping long term. I have never been big on Audi or MB because of reliability issues.

    Anyway, it looks like I will probably be deciding between the BMW 535xi and the Lexus 350awd but am still open to suggestions. I do prefer the BMW, but it is quite a bit more money (the 535xi is really pushing my budget) and I am a bit worried about the cost of repairs after the warranty runs out. I have read all the bad reviews about BMW's idrive but I am good on the computer so I don't know if that would be an issue. I like the comfort, gadgets, and long term reliability (perceived?) of the Lexus. The Lexus dealer was much more aggressive and I have received 5 phone calls from them since my test drive, which is a bit much. I would think that I could get a better deal on the GS since they seem desperate to make sales.

    Sorry about the long post. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
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