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Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ...customers want more choice and Acura can't deliver.

    They can deliver. They just refuse to do so. That has always been the Honda way. Try custom ordering one. The salesman will tapdance for an hour trying to "locate" one that meets your criteria (and actually send you on your way if he can't) instead of just ordering the dang thing.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,779
    LG, didn't the old Legend and maybe the original RL have its own chassis and then the Accord was adapted to it later? I have never been quite sure about this.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    LG, didn't the old Legend and maybe the original RL have its own chassis and then the Accord was adapted to it later? I have never been quite sure about this.

    Good question. The original Legend wasn't related to the Accord, and I'm not entirely sure exactly how closely they relate currently. The Vigor/TL though was based directly on the Accord from day one, which is why new TLs always come a year after new Accords.
  • art234art234 Posts: 103
    The Vigor was indeed based on the European version of the Accord back in the early 90's. The first two generations of Legend were on their own platform. I had an '88 Legend Coupe (should have kept it!), and a '91 Legend sedan-first year of the new body...it was nice, but I believe Acura was all downhill from there.

    I drove the RL and GS before buying the M35X I have now. The GS was small inside and had limited trunk space, and I did it before the 350 came out. The RL was just lackluster, and in my opinion did not justify the cost.

    That said, the Lexus dealership here on Long Island was the most professional of all of them, and the Infiniti service is on par with a Nissan service center, not Lexus.

    Owning both a Lexus and Infiniti (wife has RX400h), there is a clear difference in service philosophy, but both cars are running well and relatively problem free.
  • anon3anon3 Posts: 147
    Funny... I owned a 1992 Acura Vigor GS. It was my first "luxury" car. It was also my last Acura because it was absolutely the most unreliable car that I've ever driven of any kind manufactured on any continent.

    This thread brings back memories of endless visits to the shop and of tow trucks hauling my Vigor from the middle lane of the highway in rush hour traffic because it happened to rain that morning, which stopped the Vigor dead in its tracks.

    And let's not forget that the Vigor put the torque in the term "torque steer" for front wheel drive vehicles. You easily could end up in a ditch on the side of the road if you didn't keep a firm grip on the steering wheel during hard acceleration by its inline 5 cylinder engine, which I believe made a whopping 176 hp if I recall correctly.

    Way to make a first impression, Acura.

    I realize that was 16 years ago and one of the first Japanese forays into the luxury market along with the Legend. But I do note that early model BMWs can be considered "classics" while early model Acuras are... junk?

    But my disgust with Acura lead me to buy my first German car and I've never looked back. So for that, I thank Acura (and so should BMW and Audi.)
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Posts: 197
    My daughter, who lives near Kalamazoo, MI, has always wanted to own a high-performance sedan. Several years ago, she had a chance to buy a used M-5, but bought a Bimmer convertible instead. Since the lease on her Bimmer is up June 1st, she is revisiting that muscle car itch again. She asked me to look around the Chicago area for one. I finally found a 2004 E55 AMG in the price range she wants at a dealership near my home. I went over and took it for a test drive. Needless to say, it ran like a rocketship. The car is in pristine condition with only 39,000 miles. I'd like to know if any E55 AMG owners could suggest looking for any particular problems with this vehicle. I know nothing about Mercedes-Benz cars except they're supposed to be well built, extremely reliable, and trouble free. Thanks.
  • bw45sportbw45sport Posts: 151
    I know nothing about Mercedes-Benz cars except they're supposed to be well built, extremely reliable, and trouble free.

    This used to be true. Starting in the later 90's, however, the reliability of Benz automobiles has suffered greatly.

    I had driven nothing but M-B's for nearly 25 years and found them to be totally reliable and built like tanks. That's why 50, 60, and 70 year old Benzes aren't all that rare. My first post '95 Benz was a 2000 CLK430 which had a few recurring electrical problems but none that totally soured me on the brand. The 2003 SL500 I purchased, however, was a different story. Truly an electrical nightmare which resulted in nearly every advanced system that M-B has implemented (ESP, ABS, SBS, ABC, etc) failing at least once during the time I drove the car. The problems were not limited just to electronics. The air conditioning failed, parts rattled, and many other "un-Mercedes" like things happened. I researched free CarFax reports online for 2003 SL's and found that a full 40% of those listings which included lines for service visits displayed problems like those found on my car. My frequent conversations with the service writers at my local dealership revealed that problems such as those I experienced were not limited to the SL model. Unfortunately, the problems were every bit as prevalent in AMG variants.

    I would highly recommend that you carefully examine the complete service records of the car you are interested in and also suggest that you check to see if an extended maintenance agreement is available for the car. To give you an idea of how outrageously expensive repairs can become, my service writer estimated that had my repairs not been under warranty, I would have racked up over $15,000 in repair charges before I ever made it to the 5,000 mile mark.
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Posts: 197
    [quote] I would highly recommend that you carefully examine the complete service records of the car you are interested in [unquote]

    I'm positive the warranty company will ask for the complete service records of the car before approving any extended maintenance agreement. My wife recently purchased an extended warranty for her 2000 Regal GS and the service manager told me he had to submit complete maintenance records to the warranty company.

    [quote] and also suggest that you check to see if an extended maintenance agreement is available for the car. [unquote]

    The salesman told me his dealership does offer extended warranties through a company that deals exclusively with Mercedes-Benz. He said that the premium is much lower if the used car has less than 40,000 original miles on it, which it does.

    Thank you for your prompt and informative reply.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I know nothing about Mercedes-Benz cars except they're supposed to be well built, extremely reliable, and trouble free.

    2002 - 2006 or so are the riskiest years for any used Mercedes product. Just absolutely horrendous quality that Mercedes is only now starting to recover from. Mercedes during that time had more lemon law buybacks than every other luxury car company combined.

    I would suggest considering an '04 or '05 Jaguar XJR. They are very quick, quite affordable, and unlike the E-class, reliable.
  • kgarykgary Posts: 180
    I know nothing about Mercedes-Benz cars except they're supposed to be well built, extremely reliable, and trouble free.

    They have not been any of those three things in about 15 years. Since around 2000 they have even been relegated to "junk bond" status.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,779
    I would urge you to listen to the guys who just posted but, unfortunately, I can't think of an alternative vehicle for your daughter. A nice M3 would have to be better though.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,661
    your ignorance really shows...for a sharp, powerful, race car, why didn't anyone mention the AMC Gremlin and Pacer???...obviously, you do not know much about performance/luxury cars...

    Then again, maybe you do...:):):):):)... ;) :blush: :P
  • asteinbergasteinberg Posts: 138
    Edmunds forums have been very helpful. Especially CarMan -- between him and the outstanding Internet depart at Pacific BMW in Glendale two years ago, I had a terrific, quick, rewarding on-target, deadline leasing experience. It was also fun learing more about leasing and realizing some errors I had made in past leases.
    I'm actually considering 535i, because it resolved some key 530i problems (somewhat better NAV w/integrated live traffic; memory buttons for radio and AM-FM-satellite band-switching; voice recognition that actually works). Mileage worse than Lexus GS350 with more value, but lease terms not so great, and BMW has free maintenance (w/brakes!). Still prefer NAV and other user friendly items on Lexus, Infiniti and other alternatives I'm exploring.
    As long as I can avoid my local dealer here in Calabasas, So Calif, I may give BMW another chance!
    Questions -- I'm also asking in other discussion groups--
    (1) Given the slowness of the auto market, how close to invoice does 530i go?
    (2) Does BMW offer financing deals, or just leasing deals?
    (3) Other than premium, sports, comfort access, navigation, sirius satellite radio, does anyone reading this recommend any options ...especially if they are perosonally familiar with them? If I go beyond the above, I must special order:
    (4) Are head-up display and night vision use mere toys or useful? (Seems odd that night vision visible only in NAV system.)
    (5) Is rear door side impact airbag safe, or a threat to kids?
    (6) power rear &manual side sunshades worth the money to keep the kids happy?
    (7) any other options truly worthwhile and worth the money?
    (8) Last time, I did 24 mo, cheaper per mo than 36. Now, 36 slightly higher. I still think 24 mo, to save buying 4 costly fun-flat tires.
    (8a) FINALLY -- does anyone know what the Money Factor will be for 535i for APRIL for 12000, 24mo, 36 mo, and, possibly for 15000. If I go BMW, I could buy/lease Mon/3-31 or wait until Tues/4-1, if MF different.
    (8b) IF I special order, due to other items, I'd use March MF or June MF, whichever is lower. My guess is June MF would be lower. Thoughts?
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,569
    Geez, you should consider posting the same message on only one or two boards instead of multiple ones.
  • kgarykgary Posts: 180
    Do you studder? Every forum I go to this morning I see the same message ;) All joking aside, I think you should move this post to the 5 series leasing forum, though it is probably there already. ;) Good luck.
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Posts: 197
    hey lexusguy-

    What do you think of the 2005 Jaguar XJ Series Super V8 sedan? I found this one at the same dealership as the '04 E55 AMG:

    http://www.thechicagotoystore.com/detail-2005-jaguar-xj_series-super_v8-2408508.- - html

    Be sure to scroll down the page to see its CarFax report and more photos. I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on it.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    What do you think of the 2005 Jaguar XJ Series Super V8 sedan? I found this one at the same dealership as the '04 E55 AMG:

    That's a great car. The Super V8 is the top of the range XJ, and that car would've cost $90K when new in '05. Unlike the COMAND setup in the E55, the Jag's NAV system is a simple touch screen that works very well. You also get power reclining rear seats and a host of other luxury features that aren't in the E class. The handling won't be quite as good as the E55's but it will be more comfortable, and just as quick. It should also be very reliable, though you may want to get the extended warranty just in case.
  • palaltpalalt Posts: 25
    Reading these negative comments about Mercedes quality, I can't help but wonder if their purchase of Chrysler backfired. I think people believed Benz would improve Chrysler's quality (known to be among the worst) but maybe the opposite happened, with Chrysler's processes corrupting Benz.

    With the high cost of repairs on late model, high line cars, especially German made, I wouldn't think of owning one Off Warranty.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    The sad thing is, even Chrysler quality suffered (as did the content levels of their cars) during the Benz years, maybe even to a greater degree than the hit that momma Mercedes took.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,476
    The FX series has been upgraded for 2009, with both a larger & more powerful V8 and a 7 speed automatic trans.

    The estimated 2009 EPA numbers published by Infiniti show a +3 MPG highway improvement for the V8, compared to 2008.

    So – my ‘question de jour’:
    Will Infiniti also upgrade the M45 to an M50?
    With both the larger V8 ( 390 HP = yum )
    ** AND ** the 7 speed automatic trans.???

    My largest single issue ( and the primary reason that I did not buy one ) with the M45 was \ is the 5 speed automatic’s gearing. Resulting in generally good acceleration, but ( very ) high RPM at highway cruising speeds – and commensurately low MPG, from all reports.

    More HP & TQ would certainly be welcome ( by me ) but the opportunity to allow that very good acceleration combined with significantly improved highway fuel economy would REALLY interest me. The 7 speed’s ratios look like they will allow both.

    I see no compelling reason for Infiniti NOT to do this.

    Other opinions?

    - Ray
    Ready to move from Sports \ GT car to Sport Sedan . . .
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