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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    But the 1st salesperson I spoke to said the lease now would be about $899/month for that car with nav. Hell, I can get into a M-B E350 4matic with nav for about $725/month.

    I'm sure you can do better than $899. Talk to the posters in the M35 prices paid forum, and talk to Mercedes, Audi, BMW, anyone else you might be interested in. If the Infiniti is still your first choice, go back to them and let them know what the competition is offering.
  • draz2draz2 Posts: 50
    Thanks so much for the condescending, patronizing response.

    I hope someone else is just as helpful when you need a hand.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    There are 20K/yr leases out there??:surprise: Learn something new everyday! For that kind of mileage, you shouldn't be surprised about the $899/mo payment. The interest rate is probably astronomical. You probably could actually purchase it for about the same payment; possibly w/ no money down.
  • tayl0rd is right

    a 42K loan at 10.3% for 5 years will cost you 899/month
    a 45K loan at 7.37% for 5 years will cost you 899/month

    You are better of doing some work...
    Self teaching is an amazing experience... try it.

    Also this is what (can) happen if you ask for help on internet
    ENJOY!!

    link title

    http://willyyilly.blogspot.com/2008/09/why-you-should-never-ask-help-from.html
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    but you are going to get yourself nowhere with your current mindset.

    You have the cart so far past the horse that it's impossible to answer your questions.

    We are helping you by encouraging you to dig deeper. Don't be in a hurry, the answers will come. The journey is the best part.
  • Due to a looonnnggg lead time, I was forced to keep my A6 for, hmm 41 months, 5 months beyond the contract term. By the time I turned it in it had gone faithfully for about 60,000 miles. Three sets of tires and the only real issue with it was the first few months where every month I had to have the pushbutton start replaced.

    Actually when I drove in to pick up the shiny new (Ibis white) B8 A4, I had a momentary pang of regret, "what have I done? I love this A6, it has been a joy to drive and at this moment it, apparently, looks pretty much as it did the day I got it and the body style of the 2008 is identical. Why not just keep the thing?"

    For a week or so, much as I liked and appreciated the new A4, I still felt that I had not actually moved forward, despite my dealer's assertions that the new A4 was "better" in so many ways than the C6 A6 3.2.

    About 2,500 miles into it, I really started to feel the A4 had much to like, more to love and very little to not like.

    Note: My Ibis white A4 2.0T quattro is the Prestige version and is optioned with the following: 1. 19" sport package; 2. nav+backup camera w/voice; 3. power rear window shade and manual side shades; 4. Audi Drive Select; and, 5. Wood trim on the dash and doors. I also added Audi chrome tips and Audi maintenance. It was all of $49,000 (almost exactly). My outgoing A6 was $53,286. They have the same lease term and the same lease price per month (almost to the dollar.)

    The new 2.0T is -- hold on -- a 4 cylinder turbo engine powered vee-hick-L. It has a 6 speed tiptronic transmission that bears little resemblance to the one in my 2005 A6 3.2, other than having the same name.

    The 4 offers up 211HP, the outgoing 6 255HP. The 4 cranks out 258 foot pounds of torque at "idle" (well, practically); the 6 delivers 243 foot pounds at something north of 3,000 RPM.

    The wheelbase of both cars is about 1" different, the A6 being the longer in that category. The 4 has been lengthened several clearly noticeable inches, but is still shorter than the A6. The wheels of the 4 are pushed closer to the "head and tail" of the car than on the 6 and the 4 benefits further from a 40/60 f/r torque split and better weight distribution.

    The new 4 is much wider than the old 4, but still slightly more narrow than the 6, but when you are driving the 4, the look from behind the wheel is almost the same as it was from behind the wheel of the 6.

    The ride of the 4, due, one would imagine, to engineering and wheelbase and width is more like an A6 than it is a B7 A4. Heck, the dash of the 2009 A4 is a carbon copy of the 2005 A6 (which, for me, is a small nit, since I would like to have had SOMETHING that looked a little bit different or newer -- but the '05 A6 interior was so sweet, perhaps Audi restrained itself opting not to mess with what many call "the best interior" period.)

    The new A4, were there not already an A5 model, could probably be called an A5 it is so different from the outgoing A4 and so close to the current (2008 MY) A6.

    The new tiptronic transmission is the smoothest transmission I have ever driven and the paddle shifters on the steering wheel cause "instantaneous" shifts when flicked.

    The torque combined with the smoothness of the engine (vibration free, no kidding) makes you wonder if someone didn't insert a larger engine under the hood -- this is quicker than my 1995 S6 turbo manual shifter, quicker than my V8 A6's, quicker even than my 2003 2.7T manual transmission allroad and quicker than my chipped 1.8T TT (6 speed manual.)

    It is, however, not as quick as the last available S4 model with that gutsy 4.2 V8.

    It is, oddly, quicker and more responsive than the same A4 equipped with the lovely 3.2 V6 Audi offers as an up-price down-grade (performance and mileage wise, that is) version. It also weighs less than the 3.2, so there is even more of that nimbleness Audis are often famous for especially the "S" versions.

    The tires are 255 x 35 x 19" MAX performance Dunlops and they are sticky, sticky, sticky -- coupled with the sport seats, sport suspension and Audi Drive Select this car goes with even more aplomb than a snake in a rat hole (as my wife says.)

    The B&O sound system blows the A6's Bose system away. Finally an in dash 6 disc CD changer, too.

    In any case, you can find out, elsewhere about the power and performance and something one step above Entry Level Luxury that Audi has imbued this new A4 with -- suffice it to say, I am still fond of my 2005 A6, but the 2009 A4 (at least optioned as I have mine) is the next step up.

    Here is what I miss: the headlights articulate UP and DOWN based on road speed, but they do not articulate LEFT and RIGHT based on steering wheel position; I miss folding outside rear view mirrors, but love their built in turn signals and blind spot warning feature; I also miss the halo of light that the interior of the A6 was bathed in after dark -- but many people don't even seem to know they have it.

    The Audi Drive Select, no hype, is literally like getting four personalities available one at a time in a single car -- from Comfort to Dynamic and 24 combinations you can dial in through the MMI. This is an amazing innovation. If this car had torque Vectoring and a slightly different tuned exhaust note under part throttle, it would render the A6 C6 3.2 "outclassed" and "over priced."

    Remember, I still have nothing but love for my '05 A6 -- this new A4 is just plain wonderful though.

    Did I mention it has but 4 cylinders? And, all things considered, it ain't very thirsty.
    :shades:
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,206
    Interesting review. Welcome back.

    Don't be a stranger.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    The A4's are selling well here in Dallas thanks to rave reviews, and I think a lot of people tired of the same old Mercedes/BMW/Lexus wash, rinse, repeat thing.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,476
    Interesting read, as usual - thanks for posting, Mark.
    One question:
    "..all things considered, it ain't very thirsty. "
    So - compared to past Audis & [ roughly ]
    the same driving, what MPG does this Turbo 4 deliver?
    Thanks,
    - Ray
    [ non-turbo V8 driver ]
  • I have not done the fill up, reset trip od, drive, fill up and calculate exercise.

    My gut and the Audi computer says 25-30mpg's -- I have just turned 4,000 miles and I only use Premium fuel.

    I also love putting the system in sport mode and playing on the twisties -- and I typically am able to drive with traffic on our freeways above 75mph.

    Winter, too, may reduce mileage.

    My past experience: Audis break in @ 5,000 and 10,000 miles and both their performance and efficiency improves at those milestones.

    This engine is the best "economy" motor I have ever had the pleasure to drive and feed.

    I cannot find turbo lag -- none.
  • Just out of curiosity, have you driven w/the sunroof all the way open? I test drove 2, both engine variants, in the fall & the noise/wind w/the roof open was painful to my ears. I mentioned that back then, but no one ever confirmed similar experiences. Only comments I remember reading were no one test drove with it open.
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    The spec sheet claims 40" of headroom for the driver...is that true? With my older A6, without a sunroof (had to special order it) there was bout 40", but the sunroof took up 2.85", so it was barely over 37" for any car you could actually buy or want. On all of the new ones, it's almost impossible to get one without a sunroof, and if you do, you have to forgo most of the neat fun stuff. That's why I ended up with an M-series - it has the most headroom of any of the other models when equipped with anything worthwhile. The car is okay, but I liked the Audi better.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    For a week or so, much as I liked and appreciated the new A4, I still felt that I had not actually moved forward, despite my dealer's assertions that the new A4 was "better" in so many ways than the C6 A6 3.2.

    The new A4 2.0T is definitely a better car than the old A6 3.2. The new 3.0T engine though finally solves the A6's power problem and puts the advantage back in the C6 camp, (though of course it still gives up some sportiness to the A4). The new 3.0T also makes the 4.2 pointless, just as the 2.7T, especially in S-line guise, did to the old 4.2.
  • The 2.0T as it stands today also makes the 3.2 somewhat pointless, in the new A4 --especially when you factor in the $3300 premium, a weight disadvantage and a fuel economy disadvantage.

    Having said that, the 3.2 sounds better under part throttle than the 2.0T -- although both cars are more isolated from all sounds than my A6 was.

    There is more tuning that can be done to the 2.0T (factory tuning), too. But it seems there is little interest in improving the 3.2's numbers -- so the thing is, apparently, Audi has decided that a 2.0T and a 3.0T is your best overall value and performance choice.

    The die hards still can have the naturally aspirated versions and they cost more so, for the time being, it would appear everybody wins.

    I wish the 3.2 had been goosed in HP and Torque, but super or turbo charging perhaps allows us all to do more with less.

    Bless anyone who buys the 3.2 -- personally, however, I don't see the merit in getting the new A4 as a 3.2 when the 2.0T has all that torque way down low in the rev range.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Bless anyone who buys the 3.2 -- personally, however, I don't see the merit in getting the new A4 as a 3.2 when the 2.0T has all that torque way down low in the rev range.

    I agree. I'm not sure what Audi's plans are in terms of an A4 3.0T, but if they decide not do one because it would hurt the S4, they would probably be better off killing off the 3.2 and offering the 3.0TDi as the middle engine choice.
  • Here is an observation: the A4 3.2 appears to be able to be priced against the 328xi -- and if you HAVE to have 6 cylinders, the A4 3.2 apparently shows well against the 328xi (assuming both are comparably loaded up with options.)

    Of course the issue that can be legitmately brought up is that it is quite easy to pump up the A4 2.0T's price above $50K -- but due to the way low down torque of the turbo motor, the A4 is still performance competitive with the 328xi (in fact it is able to out perform the 328xi.) So, what does the 3.2 compete with? It is only able to pull well from idle due to a shorter final drive ratio (than the 2.0T -- which of course further decreases its economy.)

    You can easily equip a 335xi for under $50K, too and in that instance neither the 2.0T or the 3.2 are able to keep up if straight line acceleration means anything to you. Then there is the upcoming 3.0T S4 which if priced closer to the 335xi would make a persuasive argument.

    But the S4, no doubt, will be a wonderful and superior performer but at thousands more than the 335xi.

    I remember the old days where there were two or three models in the lines of each of the German maker's cars that were brought to the US. There was a 2.8A6 and up the ladder a 2.7TA6 and a 4.2A6 (and there was even an S6 avant) -- BMW had its comparable 5 series models and things seem so clear.

    The S4 is no M3, that is saved for the RS4, but then what purpose in the lineup does the 3.2 actually serve. I just config'd a 2009 A6 and once again there are two versions of the 6 the 3.2 and the 3.0T and then there's the apparently redundant (but way more $$$$) 4.2. I don't get it -- why bother with a lineup that doesn't progress in performance as you take the next dollar step up?

    At least BMW's approach makes sense.

    Oh, to heck with it, the 2.0T A4 is a great car, better than the 328xi in terms of performance, size, features and lux. But the poor 3.2 seems so out of touch.
  • A reporter is looking to talk with consumers who have considered purchasing a luxury car in the past, but would not do so currently because of the economy, or consumers who have traded-in their luxury vehicle. Please send your email address and phone number to ctalati@edmunds.com by Friday, February 6, 2008.

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I just config'd a 2009 A6 and once again there are two versions of the 6 the 3.2 and the 3.0T and then there's the apparently redundant (but way more $$$$) 4.2. I don't get it -- why bother with a lineup that doesn't progress in performance as you take the next dollar step up?

    I configed an '09 A6... what happened to all the options? It seems like you have your choice of Premium/Premium Plus/Prestige and that's basically it. Where's the sport suspension option and everything else?
  • Mark, thanks for the nice comparo between your new A4 and the earlier A6. Not much to add other than I occasionally look at the A6 as an alternative to the E Class or a 5 Series. So for what it is worth, here is an interesting design issue. A frend of mine has an older A6 with the 3.0 V6. Nothing fancy nor exotic. Certainly not the twin turbo 2.7 engine. Just something to go to Trader Joe's in with a little more elan than a silver Camry. She likes the look of the A6 and the all weather ability of the quattro here in New England.

    Last week she had the normal 100,000 mile service done. The car was running well and she just wanted to keep to the factory maintenance schedule. Everything went smoothly except that on an A6 the entire front bumper and front end have to come off to get access to the water pump and the front end idler assemblies and timing chain. A minor oil leak from the one of the four (!) cams necessitated a new cam seal. Naturally, the crank seal was also done. What did this "normal" service cost? $2000!. The mechanics all said to us that they had seen frequent timing component failure as early as 105,000 miles. Does Audi pay for the 100,000 mile service on a CPO vehicle? If Audi wouldn't pay this service under the CPO plan, why buy a CPO Audi?

    That Audi would install a four cam engine with a fragile timing set-up as their standard duty A6 sedan engine is, frankly, nuts. Apparently the design of the MB and BMW timing components and far fewer camshafts, is much better and allow for up to 300,000 miles of service before the valves hit the head.

    As a side note, the well regarded indy mechanic who did the work commented that the aftermarket cam and crank seals that he originally ordered from the local imported auto parts store, were far inferior to the OEM dealer seals he eventually used. He commented also that Audi calls for mechanics to set the service interval light to come on at different intervals depending on the type of lube oil (synthetic or dino) installed. I am surprised. In my experience, other manufacturers don't make that distinction.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Does Audi pay for the 100,000 mile service on a CPO vehicle? If Audi wouldn't pay this service under the CPO plan, why buy a CPO Audi?

    Audi doesn't pay for any scheduled maintenance for a CPO vehicle. They only cover warranty repairs. Anything considered a "wear" item will not be covered. This is the same across the board. If you expect BMW to pay for your services at 100K, you're dreaming. If an Audi is still under Audicare when its purchased, that will be in effect until the normal warranty is up.

    The last gen C5 A6 was an expensive car to maintain. Sure it's a lot nicer to drive than a Camry, but that's the downside. An E or 5 of similar vintage is likely to be just as pricey to keep running.

    If you use the top grade synthetic oil, you can go buy when the computer says its time to come in for a change. If you use the normal stuff, you have to come in every 10.
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