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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    ny thoughts about waiting for the new 2011 A6 vs 2010

    I would definitely suggest that you wait for the C7 car. While I'm sure the 3.0T engine will just carry over, the rest of the car is going to be significantly improved. The new platform means better weight distribution, and with Drive Select and the S4's rear diff, handling should be much better. Audi also really has to deliver on the interior if they want to keep up with the 5 and M.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,780
    Hey, wait a minute. I thought the 2010 A6 was already perfect !! :)

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

  • I have a 2010 E350 and having had a V6 Camry, I can assure you the E is a lot more fun to drive.
    For the first time in 20 years, I had a stranger come up to me and tell me she thought my car is "the most beautiful car I have ever seen." Agree with her 100%.
    The 2010 E class is far better looking than the 535, exterior and interior and nicer too IMO. Of course, both of these are a matter of personal taste.
    In reality the E Class and BMW 5 series are different types of cars so it is really hard to compare them. Of course, the new 5 is supposed to be nicer and more comfortable than the current model.
  • I assume that M-B dealer will do a much more thorough inspection on my E350 than the Toyota dealer does when I get RAV's oil & filter changes there. $30.00 vs. $250.00
    Of course, a thorough inspection may also enable the dealer to sell more parts and services. Got a cheap oil change deal on my Ford pick-up at a Ford dealer and they came back with a list of recommended services for about $600. Didn't get any of them and that was two years ago.
    However, it is still very expensive compared to the non-prestige makes, but that is part of what you are paying for. Somebody has to pay for the free loaner cars, the very nice waiting areas, and all the kid glove treatment. Also, many of the prestige dealers only sell the one make, so they have no large volume of other cars to cushion their costs. That is one reason why Hyundai has not spun off the Genesis and Equus as a separate brand.
    BTW, S.C. no longer requires auto inspections to renew licenses-and you can tell by the number of cars with one or no brake lights or only one headlight.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    In reality the E Class and BMW 5 series are different types of cars so it is really hard to compare them. Of course, the new 5 is supposed to be nicer and more comfortable than the current model.

    Styling is of course a matter of personal taste. I just don't like the blocky, '80s look that Mercedes is going with lately. I had a Mercedes in the '80s, and I don't need a new '80s Mercedes. I also don't like the column shift, or that Mercedes thinks the clock is as important as the rev counter.

    When the current 5 made its debut in '04, I didn't like the exterior or interior styling at all. Eventually I got used to the styling, and at this point I think the V8 model with the deeper front air dam isn't too bad, at least from the front. I still don't like the rest of it. When BMW refreshed the 5 a couple of years ago they made significant improvements to the interior, making it about equal with the current A6 IMO.

    The 2011 5 appears to be significantly improved in most areas. The styling is a bit anonymous, but its not off putting. The interior has the same look that started with the X5, and I think it's just better than the E-class in every way. The C7 A6 is still a question mark, but IMO the 2011 M and 2011 5 are the current interior leaders in the mid luxury segment.

    image

    Full size interior photo
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 3,151
    I've owned 80's Mercedes Benz Vehicles, E and S class, and believe me, my new 2010 E350 with Prem 1 pkg. and sport wheels (AMG) is far superior to my previous Mercedes Benz Vehicles in looks as well as performance. I traded my 08 BMW 535i for the new Benz. I had so much trouble with my BMW, I was disgusted. BMW replaced my 08 with an identical vehicle three months after I bought it, and I had the same exact problems with the replacement vehicle.

    In terms of technology, the Benz is far superior in every way, from Navigation to voice activation, to the BMW. In terms of cost, the Benz is 4000 dollars less than a comparably equipped BMW 535i. My car listed for 54,850, while the 535i was over 60,000 dollars. I had to add rear sunshade, Logic 7 sound system, HD radio, Navigation, sport package, etc., all of which my Benz had.

    The major problems I had with the BMW were the turbos on both cars and "high battery drain" whenever it rained, and this was on both cars as well. BMW can keep their 5 series, I'll take the MB over any of them.

    2014 Mercedes Benz CLS 550 - best car ever! 2nd best car ever, my 1967 Corvette Stingray Coupe with 435 hp.

  • Looks and performance are very personal.
    I too am now looking for a mid size car and I am leaning towards
    Infiniti M...will wait till 2011 debut to make decision.

    If I were to buy a "non sporty" model then I would have tough time in justifying buying E350 over Genesis.

    In any event there seems to be some contradiction in your posts in two boards. I thought you traded E-class for a newer E-class
    May be I misread in that case my apologies

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.eea6b46/580
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 3,151
    No, you were correct. I had 2 2008 BMW's, one I bought, and one the manufacturer gave me as a replacement. I traded the last BMW in for 2009 MB E350 sport, then traded that for an 2010. So you were correct, I made an error.

    Believe it or not, I test drove the Genesis about 2 months ago. Although it was responsive, etc., I found it to be "tinny" compared with German Cars. I found the technology to be acceptable, however I strongly urge you to Test Drive an E350 with sport package and Premium 1 package. I think you'll find the ride sporty, yet confident, which I did not find in the Genesis. Also, with Mercedes Benz Dealers almost giving these away (I got mine for 5500 under sticker, or 2000 under invoice, you will find the Benz will hold its value longer. The only drawback on Mercedes is the cost of maintaining it. It costs 300 dollars once each year for oil change (they only recommend once a year or 10K miles), but the cost of brake replacement, etc., about 900 to 1000, which must be done once every 20,000 miles, from my experiences.

    Whatever you choose, good luck.

    2014 Mercedes Benz CLS 550 - best car ever! 2nd best car ever, my 1967 Corvette Stingray Coupe with 435 hp.

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 3,151
    One more thing, I was a sales manager at the largest Infiniti Dealership in the World for several years. I found the M35 (which will become athe M37) one of the best cars on the road for the money. The only reason I bought a Mercedes was due to the late introduction in April/May, and the fact that the new M will look like a stretched G37 sedan, not my taste. The M will cost you about the same as a new Mercedes E350. Like a said, take a good look at both cars.

    2014 Mercedes Benz CLS 550 - best car ever! 2nd best car ever, my 1967 Corvette Stingray Coupe with 435 hp.

  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,477
    "The major problems I had with the BMW were the turbos on both cars and "high battery drain" whenever it rained, and this was on both cars as well. BMW can keep their 5 series, I'll take the MB over any of them. "

    ... and no HPFP failure[s] ?
    Interesting...
    - Ray
    Looking at BMWs with turbos...
  • bornoborno Posts: 77
    A little skeptical of your situation. Obviously things can break here and there, that doesn't kill the benefits of owning. Although I agree, I'd lease new over buying new any day. I usually buy a year or two old,(certified) and keep it over 6-7 years. That's hard now given the great new technology that keeps coming in this newly competitive industry!.

    So, I need a car asap; mine was totalled. Off duty cop turned into my line, no injuries, his fault. Got $7.5K for my 00 A6,2.7TQ,MT. Loved it. It was only worth 2.5K on trade cause of bad cats.

    I'm between a 08 A6 4.2, it has sport suspension(a must), and is certified. Stickered around $64K, and asking $43K, a decent discount from sticker, actually saw two similar cars both with low 20K miles on them.

    I am also a good lease candidate, though I've never leased B4. (low annual miles, business write off, take car of my cars, like newest tech toys) So my two questions:

    Lease new, and have a decision to make in 39 month or buy used and keep long term?
    If I leased new I'd go with the 3.0T, maybe chip it after the lease if I buy it out, or the used 4.2?, great natural engine pretty good discounts on cars, but older tech

    HELP.......thanks in advance for ideas suggestions or comments
    Still love the cayenne gts.stick, but have finally come to my senses...lol
  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,204
    The A4 leases better than the A6 and will cost you a lot less. The size difference is not all that much either. If you don't get too heavy on the options, you can even buy with a 4 year loan to match the warranty. Then trade it in. Just stick with the quattro premium[ not the premium plus or prestige]. -- money factor is very good til 3/1.
  • Before getting a '10 E350, I test drove three different Genesis'. Very disappointed in the ride and it just did not look as good inside when compared to Infiniti, Acura, M-B and Lexus. Outside, looked liked they copied too many other makes.
    Was driving an Azera at the time and could have gotten the Genesis at actual dealer cost through a special HMA program. Just couldn't convince myself saving money was worth it-and that is Genesis' only advantage. As Jerry Seinfeld said: "You can't drive money."
    Did get a very good deal from MBUSA and the dealer on the E350.
    Also, I think Hyundai is rushing cars into production too fast and then ignoring the ones already on the market, e.g. Azera, Vera Cruz, etc.
    Much more pleased with the E350. Cost more and maintenance witll be more? Definitely, but well worth it in my book.
    :)
  • The A4 Premium is a strippie -- and really would not even be part of the LPS crowd. I traded in a loaded $53K+ 2005 A6 for a more loaded $49K 2009 A4 Prestige. The wheelbase of the B8 A4 is over 110" -- a hair, a thin hair, shorter than the A6's. The A6, however was slightly wider than the new gen A4 and overall length of the A4 is shorter than the C6 gen A6.

    The interior of the A4 is 98% A6 (especially when the A4 has been equipped with both the sport package and the wood package.) But the 2% difference is, for me having had over 36 months living with the A6, noticeable. The interior lighting of the A6 is, for instance, one place where the A6 shows even greater attention to details that separate the near-luxury PS from the LPS class.

    Then, I do have the ADS and 19" sport package on my A4 and it is a totally different performing drive -- the A6 seems, in comparison, almost, er, Buick-like (almost).

    Were I again looking in the LPS class (and at $49K, the A4 qualifies me to cross shop, I would think); I would, were I wanting to shave costs, look only at the A4 with the Prestige package and several option boxes checked off.

    The Premium A4 seems completely unqualified to even be considered when one is shopping LPS. I have been loaned Premium and even Premium Plus A4's when mine is in for service -- the differences from Premium to Prestige are hard to overlook -- but Prestige does command quite the hmm, "premium" price.

    The new M37X with the technology package is being advertised locally here in River City (lease) for something like $499 or $549 per month, which would be worth a look-see if you wanted to have a car that has the creds to actually be in the LPS class.

    The A4 Prestige is, to repeat, a near-LPS offering, but, at this point, it really is not an LPS car. If you want LPS, you need to be in the cars discussed in this forum. Neither the Genesis or Audi A4 are anything but upper-middle class (not that that is a bad thing.)

    For me, going from the 2005 A6 to the 2009 A4 was kind-of a lateral move. So, perhaps you can, if you say it fast enough, argue that the current crop of near-LPS offerings is "about on par" with a four-year old LPS model from Europe, Japan, England or America.
  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,204
    enjoyed your post. You're definitely someone who appreciates luxury. Amazing the range in price that audi-bmw have on the same model. Have you looked at the 2010 Jaguar XF. Don't think they lease very well but the cabin and seats are VERY nice-- high end. Reportedly a real rush behind the wheel. If I could justify $800 per month, would definitly at least test drive. Might be able to do a bit better on the lease with some hard work. The bmw X6 would work for me -- may look for a deal on a loaner with a big discount.
  • Back to back, test the X6 and X5 models. They seem very similar, but the X6 commands a double take when you look at the sticker.

    The X6 is a looker, to be sure -- but where/how is all that extra money justified?

    I read an article that said, test the X6 then test a ZDX. Now, the schnoz of the Acura, well, gulp, it will take some getting used to; but here in Cincinnati, at least one dealer (on the dark colored Acuras) is attempting to do a nose job on the new models by paiting the "big nose" the body color -- I saw one recently in burgundy with the silver nose piece also in burgundy and it didn't look too bad.

    In any case the article claimed that the ZDX was what BMW should have done in the first place. Dunno about that, but if in your neck of the woods Acuras are discounted (as they seem to be here) and BMW X6's are not, well, maybe that would be something to consider.

    Me? Well, I'd wait for the upcoming X5 twin-turbo inline 6 version and fughetaboud the X6.

    On the subject of the Jaguar, interesting read in Motor Trend -- it certainly is the quietest of the LPS crowd, so they say.

    Drive it like you live! :shades:
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Have you looked at the 2010 Jaguar XF. Don't think they lease very well but the cabin and seats are VERY nice-- high end.

    The standard XF is not that great. The carry over 4.2L engine isn't any faster than an A6 3.0T or 535i, and the suspension is too soft to be much fun. You really need the supercharged car which has the adaptive suspension, and that starts at $68K. I'm also not sure that Jag has worked out the myriad of quality control issues yet.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The X6 is a looker, to be sure -- but where/how is all that extra money justified?

    Looker? Looks like something, that's for sure. BMW makes absolutely no attempt to justify the price. The X6 is just a profit machine, for the eight people out there who think they need a 3 ton coupe on stilts that will be as good off road as a Prius, and will pay anything for it.
  • If you go with X6 make sure you do a use case test drive

    Last month a vendor took us out for lunch in his X6
    Extremely difficult to get in/out of the rear seats. The vehicle had running board.
    The seats are set way inside.... you need LONG legs to reach out to the ground below.
    If you do have LONG legs then there is no Leg room in the back
    Very claustrophobic. Very uncomfortable.

    I fail to understand the purpose.... make be it makes a statement that I do not understand.
  • ghstudioghstudio Posts: 920
    but if you step up just a little to the Jaguar XF premium with the 5.0L V8 naturally aspirated engine with 385hp, it becomes a much different and far more interesting car.
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