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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • intersting conversation. for me it's the MB 350 sedan. the XF has some sex appeal but after a few years will there be anything left except for high maintenence?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,069
    edited February 2010
    If you care at all about reviews, the three cars to consider are the Audi A6, the BMW 535 and the Mercedes E350. A few months ago the Audi was the top dog according to Car and Driver, this time the Bimmer comes in first and pushes the Audi to Avis according to Motor Trend.

    The three Germans seem, at this point in history, to be the ones to consider in this class -- everyone else (so it would seem they say) are just wannabes.

    I wouldn't be unhappy with any of these three.

    I've not driven the MB, but having driven the other two, I can see why they always finish as medal winners.

    And, BTW, I'm glad someone picked up on my comment that the X6 is a looker.

    I could also have said, "I've never seen anything like it," with equal sincerity.

    I did test drive one, though, and it was, once I got into it, a blast to drive.

    I hate to have to feed it though.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419

    The three Germans seem, at this point in history, to be the ones to consider in this class -- everyone else (so it would seem they say) are just wannabes.


    In the rest of the world that's true, but in the US market at least the A6 never seems to get much respect. I'm not sure why, but BMW and Mercedes always outsell it 3 or 4 to 1, while the A6 is forced to fight it out with Lexus and Infiniti.

    It may be that the A6 has really only been a serious contender since the '98 C5 car and Audi just needs more time, although the GS has been around for much longer and its sales have always sucked. I'm not sure why, but BMW and Mercedes have always absolutely dominated this segment, even when the Es have been mediocre they still just march off the sales floor.

    I'm curious to see if the C7 will turn things around or if the A6 will remain a distant third here, despite its best seller status in the rest of the world.
  • I agree with your post lexusguy, my point, well, was not MY point. I was remarking on C&D and Motor Trend ranking the A6 (even tho it be long in the tooth) either number one or number two, in one case besting the previous "king for life" BMW.

    Audi, overall, is on a tear -- and they, finally, have had the, er, intestinal fortitude to give it back to BMW in their recent Olympic TV spots.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    edited February 2010
    I agree with your post lexusguy, my point, well, was not MY point. I was remarking on C&D and Motor Trend ranking the A6 (even tho it be long in the tooth) either number one or number two, in one case besting the previous "king for life" BMW.

    The C6 gen A6 wasn't always such a high-ranker though. If I recall correctly, the old 3.2 and 4.2 usually scored around mid-pack in comparisons from a couple of years ago. The new 3.0T engine and the revised suspension seem to have really turned things around for the A6, as its doing better now at the end of its life than it ever has.

    With the move to the new platform, Drive Select, and the latest Quattro system, it's possible that the next A6 could stay on top. At least from the early reports I've seen, the F10 5 series is not really any kind of leap forward.

    I definitely agree that Audi is on a tear, although sometimes I wish Audi would treat the US a little more like the EU market. Going to audi.co.uk and seeing all the models and options that they get - and we don't - can be depressing.
  • bornoborno Posts: 77
    edited February 2010
    can u elaborate on the, 'revised suspension + new quattro system' please.
    Model year, and change details would be helpful.
  • At least from the early reports I've seen, the F10 5 series is not really any kind of leap forward.

    Out of curiosity, was wondering what would be needed to be a leap forward?

    I've been reading about the F 10 with pro BMW blinders on, but a couple of things have caught my attention so far- a more powerful and torquey V-8, 8 speed auto, new front suspension, Adaptive Drive, and nicer interior.

    Probably the most radical change is it has real cupholders! :)

    Bruce
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,069
    edited February 2010
    There have been MANY MANY little running changes/improvements to the C6 since it was brought out in 2004 (2005 MY, US).

    Here's what I think was meant, and it is relevant only to the 2009 and 2010 MY versions.

    A6 could be had with a 3.0TFSI (Supercharged) 300HP engine coupled to a revised software (faster, smoother, shifts) 6 speed tiptronic.

    The quattro (TorSen) system, remains active, as opposed to reactive, but the "at rest" torque bias was shifted from 50 50 (front/rear) to 40 60 f/r bias, giving the car a bit less reason to understeer, even though little if anything was done to better balance the weight distribution f/r.

    Furthermore, the suspension was, what would be a good word?, "tuned" to better work with the newfound power and perhaps even create and enhance the perception of [better, more equal] balance; that is, the suspension components were tuned to better counteract the nose heaviness of the A6, further mitigating the understeering tendancies of the engine being ahead of the front axle. As far as I know nothing substantial was done to actually make the car have better f/r weight distribution.

    We don't get the real Audi weight balancing improvements currently enjoyed in the A4 until the C7 A6 debuts.

    You can read the comparison reports from Car and Driver and Motor Trend about the last gasp of the C6 A6 platform -- in these articles, there is certainly some better prose that describes the improvements that the supercharger, new TorSen adaptation and suspension tweaks imbued on an already pretty good performing car.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    can u elaborate on the, 'revised suspension + new quattro system' please.

    I don't know that much about it, just that the sport suspension has been re-tuned a bit from the old S-line/sport suspension settings. The S6 has its own setup, and I don't think that changed with the '09 restyle.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419

    Out of curiosity, was wondering what would be needed to be a leap forward?


    Well, there doesn't seem to be anything amazing that the F10 does that the E60 doesn't do. There's plenty of new technology sure, but I haven't heard that the F10 is somehow amazingly better to drive. It's heavier, and thanks to improved engines its not any slower.

    On the other hand, the change from the B7 to the B8 A4 was a leap forward, particularly with the S4. The A6 is getting basically the same changes. It'll win easily against the E350, and there's a good chance that it could win against the new 5 as well.
  • bornoborno Posts: 77
    FINALLY, after a looooong search, I think I found her!
    Thanks for all the help!!!

    '07 Audi S6 with 34K, three year old, certified with audi care, has brand new set of winter snows and rims, white with black interior, with carbon fiber inlays, tech pkg., and warm package(rare, it replaces the glass moonroof with solar panels that operate fans to change the air in the car when its parked.

    the only options it doesn't have are adaptive cruise(regular cruise will b ok, wont use it much any way), driver side leather dash(nice but oh well), and the silver optioned head liner(this I'd like and may look into), also will need the i pod interface installed(expensive, any ideas?, hear $1k, from one dealer, $2K from another, but i will get it factory oem.

    Car was sold and serviced buy selling dealer, who also capped my shipping costs at $500. 25 year audi salesman, previous owner trade it and an older porsche for a new S5 cab, my other dream car. Also getting 1.9% from audi for 24 months!

    Pretty psyched!, will give price details later, may purchase the cpo audi care which covers additional 2 services. Any other ideas?? This is a beast of a car!

    lexusguy was right, more S6s than 4.2, and only $1-2K more than the '08 4.2!

    THANK U!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I would suggest not double posting in multiple forums, as it can disrupt the normal flow of conversation.
  • Hi,

    I bought 2009 E350 and has 3K miles on it. When my wife was driving vehicle, suddenly wheel rim burst and lost air. I checked tire and was not damaged from outside or didn't see any stress where rim was damaged.

    I believe that this is bad quality of AMG wheel but Dealers are not ready to accept.

    See video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si2OuQeVbbc

    Few questions:
    1) Why MB always ask you to buy wheel and tire warranty for AMG wheels?
    2) I have seen several post where people has described about the chip, crack in the wheel.
    3) They always denies for warranty with outside force (including pot holes). How many pot holes in this country on the road and have you face any rim damage by pot holes on another vehicle?

    I am IT person and this is simple logic that AMG low profile wheel are not designed properly to handle impact of small outside force.

    We are paying high for vehicle with priority of safety for family members. But if this happens while you drive, your family could get hurt.

    I have filed complain in NHTSA. I wanted to hear about your opinion or if you have faced this kind of issue in the past.

    Thanks,
    AD
  • linhtwulinhtwu Posts: 15
    Anyone out there that has owned a BMW 7 series (E38/2001 or older) and now driving an MX45x? I live in Cleveland where we get lots of snow and need to think about a replacement for my 740. My "winter" vehicle" was a lease and recently turned in. Wife wants to go down to two cars so I figure MX45x may fit my needs.

    Would like to know how the MX45 compares to the 7 series. No pre-owned MX45's in area for sale currently or else I would go test drive one.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Would like to know how the MX45 compares to the 7 series. No pre-owned MX45's in area for sale currently or else I would go test drive one.

    The M35x is basically the same car just with a bit less power, and those should be easy enough to locate for a test drive. You may also want to consider an A6, or if you want another BMW, a 530/535xi.
  • linhtwulinhtwu Posts: 15
    Two main reasons why I am considering the switch. One, need AWD and secondly want something with more reliability. Don't get me wrong, my 7 has been great but it's a different animal when compared to the Japanese brands ( when it comes to reliability). You constantly need to take care of it. Therefore, a switch to another German vehicle whether it be an Audi or another BMW is not in sight.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Therefore, a switch to another German vehicle whether it be an Audi or another BMW is not in sight.

    Understood. Are you buying new or used? The Infiniti M is completely redesigned for this year, and is considerably better than the car it replaces. If you're shopping used, the year to get would be an '08. You may just want to stick with the M35x. There's plenty of power, and the fuel economy is better than the M45x which gets around 14mpg.
  • kivikivi Posts: 12
    My wife has had several BMW's and has been driving an M35X for 3 years now. She loves it. The BMW's were not AWD and they were crap in the snow. The M35X is fantastic in the snow (we live in Northern Ontario... so lots of snow experience here). Unless you truly don't give a crap about gas mileage I don't see why you would bother with the M45x (or the new M56X). The M35X has had great reviews for years now, and deserves the reputation from our experience with it. Much better value for the car than our BMW's. We liked the BMW's alot... but the snow performance was a big issue for us.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,822
    If I get another Infiniti, it'll be an "x" version - I have the G35 RWD version, and it's like driving on roller skates in the snow. :( A friend has an "x" version, and it's fantastic.

    One positive experience I can share about Infiniti ownership (I've had a few) - some people complain that parts/service can be more expensive, which is fair enough. However, I always say that it's not that expensive if you don't have to repair much! I've put 105K miles on mine, and have yet to have a true repair expense - just maintenance items like brake pads/rotors, oil changes, and some belt replacements. My I30 was the same way.

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  • linhtwulinhtwu Posts: 15
    Buying used. Any reason why you prefer the 08?
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