Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Luxury Performance Sedans

15960626465335

Comments

  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    My father-in-law has the SL55 AMG.

    Rich-- Now that's what my mother would have called marrying well!
  • richcreamrichcream Posts: 205
    My friend with the S55 - his brother has a 2004 SL55 convertible, and my other buddy has an '03 CL55 AMG....they laugh at our friend with the CL500...piker. LOL.

    BTW: ALL OF THEM HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH THESE CARS ranging from the "3rd time's a charm" S55 fiasco previously described, to numerous electrical problems, an unusually high number of blown tires and cracked rims (but I'll attribute that to 20" rims and low profile tires. The SL55's doors lock and unlock on their own and the window work when they want to.Oh, and the guy with the CL55 blew his tranny trying to get the car out of a snow drift. It was parked next to his Suburban....we gave him hell for that bonehead move. :P
  • richcreamrichcream Posts: 205
    Yes, the AMGs abound in my circle, though none are mine :(

    My friend with the S55 - his brother has a 2004 SL55 convertible, and my other buddy has an '03 CL55 AMG....they laugh at our friend with the CL500...piker. LOL.

    BTW: ALL OF THEM HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH THESE CARS ranging from the "3rd time's a charm" S55 fiasco previously described, to numerous electrical problems, an unusually high number of blown tires and cracked rims (but I'll attribute that to 20" rims and low profile tires driving at high speeds over NYC potholes.)

    The SL55 is a ROCKET, but it's doors lock and unlock on their own and the window work when they want to.Oh, and the guy with the CL55 blew his tranny trying to get the car out of a snow drift. It was parked next to his Suburban....we gave him hell for that bonehead move. :P
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    It seems you are correct, I just assumed that as Jag increased the displacement of the AJ-V8 from 4.0 to 4.2, Lincoln would do the same, because 3.9L and 280hp is pretty uncompetitive now. Still, Lincoln LS to S-type 4.2 only gets you 14hp. Considering the .3L bump in displacement, thats not exactly a lot. Especially when Audi went from 300hp to 335 without any increase whatsoever.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,076
    . . .this will sober anyone up:

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_19/b3932001_mz001.htm

    Couple this article with the observation that we almost literally have no participants here who talk about Cadillac's offerings (especially the STS).

    Swallow hard.

    Then reflect on the headline "US Economy: Going Out of Business Sale?"

    I reread the purpose of this particular discussion and duly noted the lack of Cadillac in the listing of cars that would be discussed. However, the recent LPS tests in the major Car Magazines generally include the STS in the list of usual suspects.

    I for one, find the lack of participants in this forum to perhaps be due to low, low, low sales numbers for the STS AND the crazy bundling of option packages that more or less forces one to spend WAY over the base model even if all you want is AWD or Magana Ride, etc?

    I would not have felt like I would have had to hang my head or worse if the STS could have been packaged to make it even remotely attractive to someone shopping in the $45 to $55,000 range.
  • rich545rich545 Posts: 386
    I'd like to think his daughter married well too though!
  • rich545rich545 Posts: 386
    He really hasn't had many problems with his SL55. The only one I can think of is after idling for a long time it started stalling. Not sure what caused that. It's a tremendous car though. I've had the pleasure of driving it on a long trip while my father-in-law was dead asleep in the passenger seat so I got to play with it a bit. I thought my 545 was fast. But between his SL55 and my brother-in-law's Viper I might as well be riding a moped. My father-in-law was considering trading it in for the SL65, but I think he changed his mind. Must be nice to have those tough decisions huh?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Interesting article. As you've said, the STS is "on the list" just like the S-type is on the list. I just dont think the STS is good enough, especially not for the Benz level pricing they think they can get. There's just not room for "average" cars anymore. When Toyota starts asking you if you "need some help" things are SERIOUSLY wrong.
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    It's scary that GM is banking on the Solstice, HHR, updated Tahoe/Yukon, and H3 to support their revival. These are all niche vehicles, or else large SUVs whose penetration/interest are on the wane. If they can't make their mark with sedans, minivans, pickups, and mid-to-upper end luxury, they are toast.

    The brand new Chevy Colorado just got hammered in a C&D comparo, finishing last of 5. (The Ridgeline won, BTW.)

    There will be intense pressure on Cadillac to maintain momentum with luxury vehicles. Don't know if they have the goods to deliver. The onus is also on the unions to be a part of the solution rather than the problem. It will be very interesting to watch in the next few years.

    I just moved a lot of my investments to the Prudent Bear and similar fixed income accounts. Is the proverbial Secular Bear about to roar over the next 2-3 year horizon? Me thinks so.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "It's scary that GM is banking on the Solstice, HHR, updated Tahoe/Yukon, and H3 to support their revival."

    They are banking on cars like the Solstice to bring in sales & dollars, but when you go and aim for a September introduction date for a convertible you have to wonder if they are purposely trying to put themselves out of business!!! I mean...who in their right mind introduces a convertible in September???
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    Excellent point. And if the new Miata beats the Solstice to market, that will be a double whammy.

    And what's with the HHR. A warmed over PT Cruiser, when the excitement over the PT Cruiser faded about a year ago??

    I'm also trying to understand the exact point of the Malibu SS. My eyes are watering with pain.
  • bw45sportbw45sport Posts: 151
    SL500 problem.
    Why not sell it?

    Alas, that is likely the step that will follow my one last attempt to embarrass the dealer or Benz into buying it back. Though I know the picture is not going to improve, I'm not anxious to face the financial bloodbath that awaits me with a sale. With the number of 03 SL's that have gone through auction and appear for sale online, their electronic reputation precedes them.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    It's interesting now in this forum how it has moved on so quickly. This entire page is almost void of any talk about the newest luxury performance sedan. Still it always makes for fascinating reading! I noticed at the top of this page that you can rate any of the 6 cars under discussion. Has anyone done this yet?
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    It only goes to show that success within the luxury performance segment usually requires synergy and focus across a company's entire product line. Rarely can a company be good at just one thing, and expect to sustain it. Technology, styling, performance, and quality that goes into one segment often trickles up, or trickles down, into other segments.

    I did like the quote in the GM article that said "instead of deciding what they want to do, they do everything, and none of it well." It's also good to specialize and focus on doing what you do well. Talk about a tough balancing act.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Making the H3 alongside the Canyon and Colorado just to save money is probably going to haunt them for a car that's supposed to bring new blood into the hummer brand. The pickups are already underpowered thanks to the relatively useless and crude 5. That means the H3 version is going to be SEVERLY underpowered.

    As the article was saying heathcare costs are not GM's only problem. They have to make sweeping changes to the way cars are designed, built, and sold. Like Eagle and Plymouth, redundant cars and brands need to DIE. Buick should be killed, and Saab should be either sold or killed. GM could also get some cash by selling their percentage of Subaru. I think Pontiac is salvagable, but it needs dramatically more exciting cars. The Magnum and Charger are good examples of the RIGHT way to make exciting American cars. The GTO is the wrong way. What Pontiac should NOT have are boring rebadged Chevys such as the Torrent, G6, etc etc. No minivan either. THREE identical minivans is enough. Your "excitement" division doesnt need a FOURTH.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,076
    I, for one, like the pace, the change -- perhaps the reason for the continuation and growth of such forums is that they are stimulative.

    I owe or fault this and other forums for opening my eyes to something other than Audis -- time will tell what will transpire next!
  • Change is always good and I have no worries about us getting back on track soon.

    I have owned 5 GM vehicles from the seventies through my last one which was a '96 Saturn SL2. The Saturn was a good vehicles and my wife loved it. It was zippy and red is what she always tells me. I was happy with it but it wasn't big enough for a family who likes to travel. All the GM products I owned had the same theme running through them, cheap materials and lackadaisical dealer support. The warranty on most, if not all, GM vehicles hasn't increased since 1990 or near about that time. 3 yr 36,000 miles is not good enough but it would kill them to extend it any more than that.
    Needless to say but I wouldn't give them a dime unless they came up with a product that was as good if not better in quality and FEEL then an Accord and had a hybrid or diesel engine.

    Did you all see that Pres. Bush wants a subsidy for diesel engines? It's a little too little and too late but let's see how long it takes the American makers to bring their diesel engines over from Europe. We also have problems with the sulfur in our diesel but that can be fixed. Imagine if GM had the option available for a 3.5 liter, 250 hp diesel engine in their Pontiac Bonneville or the Envoy. It would be selling like beer at a baseball game! This is the reason they are failing to make money. They can’t adapt to the market quick enough to profit from change.

    Maxhonda99- I will have to use GM’s line of thinking to start selling my new snow plow in June and I will have the introduction in Bermuda.  Morons at the helm there.

    Lexusguy- I agree 100% and I also think Pontiac is the best for having a fighting chance. The Bonneville is a cool car IMO with the V8 and all the extra stuff. They lose some points for the warranty but they can change that.

    Phil
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    I agree with you . And who knows...someday Lexusguy may even buy an Audi. Ha Ha! How's that for the ultimate conversion? Have a good weekend...by the way, the Red Legs are here in my town for the weekend and the Brewers are going to beat them like a drum! (or not) :P
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "The Bonneville is a cool car IMO with the V8 and all the extra stuff."

    Unfortunately I'm pretty sure the Bonneville is either already dead or headed for elimination very soon. GM says there's no more market for large cars. (Translation: we dont have large cars anyone wants.) Last time I checked, Chrysler is having NO trouble selling the 300, which is quite a large car. If GM wants to compete with Chrysler's new stars, they need two critical elements, RWD, and either the LS1 or LS6 V8. The Bonneville 8 makes something like 275hp, which is great 10 years ago, but when Toyota and Nissan have 280hp V6s, its not good enough anymore.

    jjacura, if Audi ever makes a coupe or convertible in the $50-75 catergory, I would definitely consider it. An Audi sedan would be very unlikely though.
  • I ran the comparison here at Edmunds with the 300C and the Acura TL. It's amazing how behind the curve the Bonneville is against those two cars. It comes with a 4-Speed automatic and it's V8 with 1.6 more liters is 5 hp more than the TL's V6. No xenon headlights or stabilizer bars either.

    It's too bad though because a black V8 Bonneville, blacked out windows, rear wheel drive drive or AWD, 6-speed manual and the LS6 motor would really be a nice car. I would have to get the HUD too. It's the Tie Fighter look. :-) Price it at $32,000 like the 300C and give it the 4/ 50,000 warranty like Cadillac and you could get some competition going there. GM should also give you a direct injection diesel option if you want the look with 35 mpg and huge low end torque.

    I'm just a consumer though so why would they listen to me.

    Phil
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    I believe I read that GM is dropping the Bonneville soon. My feeling is that the Chrysler 300, although initially a great success, will be a flash in the pan. Chrysler sales have recently declined, and they are probably in the same boat as GM and Ford, only on a slightly delayed trajectory. With Mercedes losing money for the first time since the merger (on quality issues), the company is clearly in more trouble now than it's been.
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    "They are banking on cars like the Solstice to bring in sales & dollars, but when you go and aim for a September introduction date for a convertible you have to wonder if they are purposely trying to put themselves out of business!!! I mean...who in their right mind introduces a convertible in September???"

    The BMW Z4 was introduced around September of 2002.

    GM isn't banking on the Solstice for sales and dollars.

    They are working on the new 2007 pickups and SUV along with other new products for bigger sales and more dollars.

    GM should put the 4.2 liter 275 hp I-6 in the new 2007 pickups and SUVs.

    image

    The Chrysler 300 has staying power. Its styling, retro (1998 Chrysler Chronos concept car and 1957 Chrysler 300), is bold and is what they needed because they were stagnating with the previous fwd 300.

    The new Dodge Magnum has generated more sales and excitement about a STATION WAGON than just about any other station wagon ever sold here in North America.
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    "BTW, I thought the Jaguar V8 was totally seperate from Ford? We've had this discussion in the Jaguar topic on the News and Views board and they're saying its a Jag V8 not based on anything from Ford?"

    Jaguar likes to say that, but the truth is that the Jag 3.0 engine is EXTREMELY close to the Duratec 3.0, and while the 4.2 doesnt share quite as many bits as the 3.0, its still very closely related to the Lincoln LS V8. Displacement is identical, and power is very close. They've replaced parts with "Jag spec" parts that are largely the same, but it allows them to say that a huge percentage of the V8 is Jaguar specific when it really isnt. The V8 Vantage shows what the engine can actually do when somebody REALLY works it over. The fact that the Jag version is THAT close to the Lincoln proves they didnt really do much of anything to it.


    Jaguar's V-8 is NOT a Ford V-8.

    It came out in the 1997 Jaguar XK8 with a 4.0 liter displacement.

    The 4.2 liter V-8, which came out for the revised 2003 S-Type and XK8 and the aluminum 2004 XJ, doesn't have the potential timing chain tensioner or nikasil problems of the 4.0 liter V-8 from the 1997-2000 XK8.

    check this link

    Jaguar's V-8
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I disagree about the 300. I dont even like the car, mostly because of the styling, but I think its sales will last where other flash in the pan cars have failed because it doesnt DEPEND on its unusual styling to generate interest like the PT Cruiser or VW Beetle. Like the Mini Cooper, there's actually a great car underneath the unusual skin, and thats what equals lasting sales, rather than a great two years or so. Besides, where else can you get a 425hp sedan for that kind of money?
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    You may be right about the 300. I don't know much about the car and have little interest in it. I had an instant dislike of the car because it seemed like a throwback to the road locomotives Detroit produced in the 1950s, all power and style. Consumer Reports, by the way, actually preferred the Ford 500 to the Chrysler 300.

    As for 425hp. When gas hits $3 a gallon, let's see how appealing these gas guzzlers are. Detroit is making the same mistake they made in the '70s when the price of gas skyrocketed, trying to sell the same old land yachts to a public that needed economy. These guys will never learn.

    GM's timing is exquisite, by the way, bringing out a whole new line of huge SUVs and trucks now as the price of gas soars. And with a straight face, Lutz says these are going to sell well. Detroit has a death wish and it's going to come true.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    That is some collection of cars! It is of some relief to know that someone sees that not all those things are the car's fault. I mean trying to drive a CL55 in the snow is a no no. Way too much power and the wrong footwear.

    The bent/cracked rim thing is pretty much the price for such footwear also. The wholesale eating of tires seems to be a big problem too, especially when luxury car buyers opt for a "sport" package and then find out that their tires aren't going to last anywhere near what they did previously. On sports cars its even worse, just ask any Nissan 350Z or 911 owner.

    M
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    What's interesting about the 300 is that (ignoring the original 300 series that Chrysler featured 40 years ago), the two most recent iterations are about as different as can be. The 300M was a front drive car with an overhead cam engine--a car that attempted to compete with mid-lux import "Euro-Asian" cars of the late 90's. The current 300C is a rear drive car, styled like something Al Capone would have driven, with a 5.7L pushrod "Hemi" engine. (Yes, the 3.5L SOHC "touring" version may actually outsell the Hemi, but the identity of this car is the hemi version.)

    There is little synergy or evolution between the M and the C. The letters stuck on the end are basically meaningless. The two models look nothing like each other, and probably appeal to different demographics. How often does a particular Acura, BMW, Benz, etc. from model year to model year appeal to a different type of customer?

    Is the 300C destined to be another "flavor of the month" car? Hard to say. But I don't believe future versions of the 300 will necessarily look like mafia staff cars with pushrods with fat power bands. This car happened to hit a perfect niche, and appeals to the traditional domestic customer who typically would not cross-shop this car against imports. It's image is that of a macho, take-no-prisoners, all-American, meat-and-potatoes sedan that is currently kicking the tails of the more "effeminate" and less-endowed Ford 500 and anything GM has to offer.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I agree with your point about the 300. I see quite a few non "C" models too which tells me the car in general is pretty popular not just the Hemi model. With the Charger it looks like they're going to do it all over again, big time. The Charger SRT-8 even looks better than the 300C SRT-8. These are without a doubt the hottest American cars going right now.

    I don't know what else can be said about GM at this point. Push back a convertible until Sept, like someone else said, is a less than smart move, but reportedly they're having problems with the top. The same thing has been said about the G6 convertible. Top problems. Time for GM to get Porsche (Car Top Systems) or Toyota (SC430) to do their tops if the good old boys in Detroit's supplier community can't do them.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "It's image is that of a macho, take-no-prisoners, all-American, meat-and-potatoes sedan that is currently kicking the tails of the more "effeminate" and less-endowed Ford 500 and anything GM has to offer."

    Plus GM just killed the new Zeta RWD platform that would have given them something to combat the new Mopars with. Talk about a kick in the gut. They did this to concetrate on the next generation large trucks/SUV. I can understand this decision to a point, those trucks are such big money makers, but how much longer do these vehicles have when gas prices are seemingly never going back down?

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Well, the 300M was in Chrysler's Concorde, LHS "cab forward" days of space ship looking cars that they arent doing anymore. I wouldnt expect the new 300 to be anything like the old one. If it was, it certainly wouldnt have the kind of interest that it does now. Like you said "It's image is that of a macho, take-no-prisoners, all-American, meat-and-potatoes sedan that is currently kicking the tails of the more "effeminate" and less-endowed Ford 500 and anything GM has to offer."

    The reason why I think is because it DOESNT just try to copy what Toyota and Honda are doing. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan have nothing like the 300. You can never be the best just by copying the top players. It appears Chrysler has figured that out, but Ford and GM still have not. It will be interesting to see what Chrysler rolls out in the future. With the exception of the 300..and I guess Pacifica, the rest of their line-up basically sucks. Will lightning strike twice? Or will they continue to have the 300 and then a fleet of rental cars?
Sign In or Register to comment.