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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Of course it was a Caddy set up!!! :P Sounds like you had a great time.

    Nevertheless, Consumer Reports gave very high marks for the CTS. They were very impressed with the car, so even if was a set up, apparently it's a great car. However, I want to see the CTS reliability record in a couple years.
  • rich545rich545 Posts: 386
    Actually, the 530 is 6 speed with both manual and auto. The 0-60 time difference between the two is only .2 seconds (6.4 and 6.6 respectively). The manual, of course, is more fun, but performance-wise it obviously doesn't make a huge difference. I opted for auto in my 545 (gasp!) after having owned only one other auto car in my life. I traded a 330xi with stick for it. Can't say I miss it much given the traffic around Chicago and its suburbs. I know it's somewhat of a poor substitute, but the steptronic auto isn't bad. It lets you decide when to shift at least. Obviously there's no clutch though. It actually took me a while to get used to automatic, and I still rest my right hand on the shifter. It's just that having driven my 330 around here for a while, it was a real pain to push the clutch in and out about a million times in first gear in traffic!
  • rich545rich545 Posts: 386
    Here's an interesting read from Motor Trend about the advantages and disadvantages of the three drive systems:

    http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0506_grip/index.html
  • freddybbfreddybb Posts: 95
    Funnily enough, I went through the same decision-making process that Begbie went through, and I chose the 530xi hands-down over the M35x. I posted this earlier, and my decision was based on the following factors:

    - I want to get back to the joy of a manual shifter.
    - The BMW exterior looks much cooler to me than the bulky looking M35x (although I definitely found the car to be way better looking in person than in the awful photos in the brochure and on the website). The 5 looks like it is moving even when it is standing still -- and I know lots of people who love the way my car looks (and yes, I know it is not the most popular of designs :-)
    - I felt cramped and claustrophobic in the M35 (surrounded by too much stuff), and the light interior wood looks very cheap.
    - I HATED the control panel in the M that is canted towards the top of the car (the part below the navigation screen).
    - Finally, walking up to the 5 gets my blood pumping and I am excited to get in the car and drive. Walking up to the M makes me feel blah and reminds me that I would be making a compromise. This is all emotion, so go figure!

    Don't get me wrong -- the M is a great car too, but the 5 got my money! And I am a first time BMW buyer with no prior prejudices. If anything, I have a bias towards the quality and reliability of Japanese makers (owned a very reliable Toyota and a very problematic Volvo before this).

    To each his own, as the adage goes.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Congratz on your new 5 :shades:

    I didn't like the M either, I knew immediatly I was not going to buy.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,088
    The auto WAS a 5spd -- it is NOW a 6spd -- the manual was and is a 6spd.

    When I noticed what seemed to be a 225HP car, despite the board comparing the two, I asked -- they said, uh, yea, it isn't 255HP thats the 06's this is an '05.

    It WAS a fun day. But hardly an objective day. Not that I am under the impression that cars are objective.

    Just a bit of a let down knowing that the deck seemed stacked.

    The Caddy's WERE very nice. But somebody should have shot that BMW and put it out of its misery.

    I have NOT driven a 255 auto 530xi or a manual one for that matter -- I am just saying that SUBJECTIVELY the quickest car of the four we tested plus the fact that my A6 3.2 was my ride home in this order: CTS A6 STS 530i ES330.

    I wish they had allowed us to drive the 530 with the 255HP like the comparo chart claimed. I am certain the outcome would have been less dramatic against the BMW.

    Finally, the 530xi of the three that seem to be written about from time to time here (A6 M35X and 530xi) wins at least insofar as it can be had with a stick shift.

    My timing, perhaps, was a bit off -- I haven't seen or driven one of these 530xi's yet -- knowing Cincinnati, tho, 6spds will be sold order only.

    What a drag it is getting old. . . :shades:
    Hmmmm.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    What a drag it is getting old. . .

    Rolling Stones, 1965, you are getting old :P
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,088
    But even without citing my source you came to my rescue by recognizing the quote, I may be old, but I'm in good company.

    I think the purpose of the "editor for a day" was served. The Cadillacs are certainly "worthy" of consideration. And, although I haven't looked at what the employee discount would really mean, I suspect a $62,000 STS AWD might be down around the price of my new Audi. And, with the V8, perhaps the Cadillac would have been worthy of consideration against my two winners: the Audi and the Infiniti.

    I keep reading everyone's "justification" for why they did that this or the other thing -- I too have my justifications for switching first to Infiniti then back to Audi. Once the playing field (for me) was more or less leveled, the Audi won me back. Overall, however, I cannot say anything negative about the M35X -- it is a great car in every way.

    The Audi with, what, 25 more HP and a 2% improvement in F/R balance would be the one to beat, IMHO. But for the time being for the money most of us would have to pay (my deal was a fluke, I'll wager) the Infiniti is "the one to beat."

    Full disclosure, I would still want to test the 530xi w/manual transmission.

    The BMW, for the moment, is back to being less competitive if you can believe the configurator on the WWW. But the Audi, still comes off expensive when examined and compared to the M35X.

    What a great time to be in the market.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Interesting report. I understand the "ringer" STS vs. the worst BMW they could possibly get their hands on, that makes sense and sounds like something Cadillac would do to try to make their cars look better.

    CTS vs. ES330 though? What? Who thought this was remotely fair? (Or...perhaps that was the point in the first place. Some Cadillac exec said "get me a Lexus we can beat up, I dont care which one"). A fair comparison would be the ES330 vs. say, the Buick LaCrosse. Who would the winner be then?

    I definitely know why the 330i, A4 3.2, and G35 were not invited, even though they actually compete with the CTS.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    It's not so bad getting older, I have more money, can say no to sex sometimes, and can afford these cars :P
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    "It's not so bad getting older, I have more money, can say no to sex sometimes, and can afford these cars."

    Ah yes, an age of embellishment modified by some discretionary but diminished returns, silver threads among the gold. A time to bring on the reward of that luxury performance sedan. ;)
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Well put!!! ;)
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    Thanks for the link - I'm trying to decide if AWD is worthwhile in the deep South.
  • bondguy1bondguy1 Posts: 228
    I think it is. I am in Fort Lauderdale and this summer has been real wet. The car drives like a dream...I especially like when it doesn' t pull to the side of the road when you hit a puddle sticking out from the side of the road like a non four wheel drive car would do.
    I now really enjoy my car since I discovered the "S" mode. It drives like a sports car with four doors. Unbelieveable how much difference this makes. Probably getting 10 MPG while in this mode. It's like a friend of mine said who just got the Chrysler 300 Hemi...I asked him how the engine works with cruising at highway speeds and using less power for fuel economy...he said I don't know...when you drive this car, you race around to each stoplight that you don't get any mileage worth speaking of.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    What car are you driving Bondguy?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    If you get a lot of rain, yes. If not, the RWD versions of cars offered with AWD, such as the 5, E, M, or GS will weigh less, which means faster acceleration and most likely a few more miles to the gallon. Even still, AWD does offer a nice insurance against unexpected conditions. If Lexus offered the LS in AWD, I'd buy.
  • bondguy1bondguy1 Posts: 228
    2005 A6 3.2 pretty much loaded
    in black exterior w/ amaretto inside
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Enjoy your new ride! :shades:
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    wouldn't a 2006 be new :confuse: ...but I guess its quite possible to have recently bought a new 2005 Audi A6.
  • why_notwhy_not Posts: 1
    In reply to numerous concerns i believe that if the
    title is going to be called LPS than make guidelines that would allow
    it to be an LPS. not a unilateral role.

    A good suggestion of a Luxury Performance Sedan would be
    It must come in a V8 or a V6
    It must cost at least 40,000 in the top trim
    It must be Available with real wood (not fake)
    It must have a rwd or a awd wheelbase
    It must have at least 6 lux features. (Xenon, side and front Airbags,
    trac control, dual climate, heated seats, navigation, engine
    disabler, 17" to 20" wheel factory, at least 6 speaker 5 disk changer
    factory etc.)
    It must have sold at least 30,000 copies a year
    It has to be able to be purchased overseas.
    The car company must have a high performance model (gs430 Ltuned, S6,M5)
    and a high performance division.

    Now i understand peoples view on only the cars on whoever started this thread feel's should be in but as people have stated, the market and the structure, changes so to be on par, make up a guideline and than if a new car comes out and it fits the guideline let it be recognized. If not change the title to
    "The so called luxury performance sedans because, society sets luxury standards and society is the people, but in this thread only one person is allow to have a opinion of luxury.
    There should be some measurable view, of the peoples thoughts.

    :) :) :) :) :)
    P.s i seen this stated on this board before but the poster had sarcastic comments i believe thats why it was removed. So I cleaned it up but he had a real good viewpoint minus the sarcasm.
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    A good suggestion of a Luxury Performance Sedan would be:
    It must have sold at least 30,000 copies a year


    Well I guess we can rule out at least half of our current list then :surprise: :blush:
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    ...what it is about what I am saying that some of YOU are not understanding.

    The subject cars are defined in the "What is this discussion about?" line at the top of the page. Six vehicles are the maximum there. I can't change that, you can't change that, continuing to argue about redefining the parameters cannot change that.

    IF YOU WANT TO COMPARE A DIFFERENT SET OF VEHICLES CLICK HERE AND FIRE IT UP. It still will be limited to six vehicles - you can add 3 and I can add 3 more, the end, that's all. Go back and read my earlier posts on how things are intertwined with our host site and why keeping the conversation about those six vehicles is necessary.

    If you want to discuss the numbers of categories allowed, go to the Forums Software - Your Questions Answered discussion and have at it. I can't change any of these restrictions and continuing to argue about them here is not going to get any of them changed.

    This is THE end of this line of conversation. If you need to say something else, if you need to respond to this post, email me, do NOT post here. Further posts debating what vehicles should be discussed will be removed.

    Thank you!!! :confuse:
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    We can discuss vehicles that are not in the "What is this discussion about?" line on occasion. We may not continue to argue that some vehicle or another deserves to be a major player in this discussion.

    Anyone who does not understand my point needs to read these posts:

    pat, "Luxury Performance Sedans" #2940, 6 Jul 2005 7:05 pm

    pat, "Luxury Performance Sedans" #2957, 7 Jul 2005 8:40 am

    pat, "Luxury Performance Sedans" #2980, 9 Jul 2005 8:25 am

    pat, "Luxury Performance Sedans" #3014, 15 Jul 2005 5:42 pm

    After reading all of those, if you still have questions about what I am saying, EMAIL ME, DO NOT POST HERE. (Gee, I'm getting a sore throat from yelling this morning!)

    If this discussion is going to continue, we need to get back to talking about the cars without further off-topic commentary. Without any further off-topic commentary starting right now.

    I sure would appreciate everyone's cooperation.
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    we need to get back to talking about the cars without further off-topic commentary.

    Wow, discussions have slowed. so back to the grind...

    I got to go to a local BMW grand opening event the other night (free food and drinks and no pressure looking at cars). I for one kind of like the new 5 Series styling - exterior wise. Where BMW loses me big time is in the interior :surprise: What's up with BMW interiors :confuse: They all suck: 3, 5, 6, 7, X - I must confess the lineup has consistency :blush:

    Oh well I can definietly rule out the 5; so still deciding between the M, RL, and GS.
  • If interior design and comfort are important, don't rule out the A6. It can compete with any of those you mentioned and keep you happy with the performance as well. :)
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    However, the M, RL, and GS have exteriors that suck. :confuse:
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Of the cars you mentioned, the M is the closest to the 5 series in terms of speed and handling. The A6, like the RL, is hurt in this department because its derived from FWD architecture. The GS "coulda been a contenda" but the nannies and pointless electronic replacements for perfectly fine mechanical gear ruin its otherwise good intentions.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Consumer Reports had a similar review of the GS, should be a contenda but just isn't, also they say it just does not handle as well as the 5. The M is just too big IMHO.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Er.. too big? Its 2 inches longer than the 5 series, and also 2 inches narrower. I dont get why that makes it big, especially since its still an inch shorter than the RL and A6.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    I test drove it and it feels much bigger than the 5.
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