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Hybrids in the News

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Comments

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    while now and in the future, cars will be normal sized, extra safe, have all the power you need, AND are going to be fuel efficient.

    Thanks for describing my wife's 83 MB300D!

    Who needs hybrids when diesels were available bout a century ago!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    Back then, the Chevy Chevette "plastic transmission" boxy little death traps were the norm for high MPG cars

    I think the mileage champ for gas was the Honda CRX. One of the most fun cars to drive ever built. The modern Civic does not hold a candle to the CRX for fun for the money. Unless you think gadgets make a car fun.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    PS
    The last oil crisis brought out diesels by almost every maker. They were not near what they are today. If the high fuel prices hold look for a good assortment of modern diesel cars. VW was the mileage champs back then with 50 MPG cars & small PU trucks. Many of them still on the road 25 years later. ULSD and biodiesel the practical answer to fuel economy.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Oh, sorry Dewey, I forgot to mention CLEAN as one of the criteria too - diesels left out, especially the 1983 MB300D, which puts out more dirty emissions on one mile than my HCH does in probably a tank.....:D
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    especially the 1983 MB300D, which puts out more dirty emissions on one mile than my HCH does in probably a tank

    No reason to get rid of a perfectly good 22 year old car because the government failed to control fuel formula. I wonder how many 2003 hybrids will be on the road in 2025?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    quote Moparbad-"High fuel prices are the one and only factor that will cause consumer to choose mpg over horsepower!"-end quote

    What my point of saying "once again, all in thanks to the Hybrids which started the MPG push" was referring to is the article I posted which said that the car companies are now putting extra engineering effort into making ALL engines more fuel efficient.

    THAT is the result of the hybrids gaining market share and attention.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > No, the myth is that Toyota is making a profit. Almost every car manufacturer has come out and said that hybrids are NOT profitable.

    Wake up and smell reality.

    Those automakers fighting hybrids are the same ones that define "profit" as an obscene amount of money gained from the sale of each individual vehicle with no concern about remaining competitive. That just plain is not realistic anymore. The business model has changed. They are in denial.

    Reality is that automaker survival is based on earning only modest profits now. So to end up with large quantities of cash like in the past, production volume & sales has to be significantly increased.

    This is the identical transformation that the computer industry faced a number of years ago. With respect to personal computers, that pretty much killed IBM and allowed HP to go from startup to major player. We will be seeing fundamental shifts of power just like that in the automotive industry.

    Change is coming. Get used to it.

    JOHN
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    THAT is the result of the hybrids gaining market share and attention.

    Once again.
    You are in denial. Thank the $3 gallon gasoline. High energy costs are the reason that automakers are marketing and engineering increased mpg. 1% market share of hybrids is not the motivation. Scared consumers buying a low profit Malibu i/o a cash cow Tahoe is the motivation.

    I did an informal survey at work and the managers don't care about hybrids and the labor is not even aware of them for the most part.

    You are giving too much credit to the hype.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Of course change is coming. This is why GM is tetering on the brink of bankruptcy! I wonder if any mechanics will be around in 2025 to fix the 300 or so "hybrids" they built. In 2025 there may not even BE a GM. BUT.. you know what there will be? Yup... Toyotas with probably half their cars operating in either hybrid mode or some other type of propulsion system. The Toyota/Honda hybrids are extremely reliable. Much more so than the big 3. AND..that's a FACT!!
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Hybrids sold well WAY before the hurricanes, and the trend was happening before then too:

    http://www.autointell-news.com/News-2002/April-2002/April-2002-4/April-24-02-p3.htm

    "Toyota Worldwide Hybrid Sales Top 100,000 Mark, April 24,2002"

    Total Hybrid Electric Passenger Vehicle Sales 2000-2004

    2000: 9,367
    2001: 20,287
    2002: 35,961
    2003: 47,525
    2004: 83,153
    2005 as of end of October: 173,237

    That's an undeniably incredible growth chart, and is why "higher fuel efficiency" is on the mind of consumers AND car engineers.
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    I own an RX400h. The Toyota/Lexus hybrid synergy drive is so superior a power plant that I will never purchase any car not having HSD or its equivalent (An engineering friend says Honda in its upcoming Civic hybrid will match Toyota). Today Toyota Motor announced the third generation hybrid will be put in forthcoming vehicles with some expectation of lower cost. In the Toyota Exhibition Hall on the Champs-Elysees in Paris, a Prius has its engine compartment cut open. One sees the 4 cylinder engine mounted transversally attached to an electric generator (much bigger than the usual alternator) connected to a big electric motor which has mounted above it a large streamlined container for the control system. It's clear that such a power plant is more costly and I'm happy that I'm fortunate enough (the hard way I earned it) to be able to afford it. It is regrettable affordability is low at this time but many of the posts here strike me as ill-informed.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    This is one of the primary reasons that very little can be gleaned from some of the posts. Read my post on why I believe there is so much anti-hybrid sentiment. A lot of it has to do with jealousy.
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    I just want to post this web address for the 3G hybrid synergy drive I alluded to.
    http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200511160186.html
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    Perhaps envy is there but I think it's more likely to be scepticism towards new developments. Nothing wrong with that. I believe that most people are open minded. So I post to help educate the automotive enthusiasts populating these forums about the things like automotive power plants that aren't external and visible.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Good luck!! You'll need it!!
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    There certainly is skepticism rampant here and a high level of disbelief as well but this trend is still in its infancy. The vehicle best known is intentionally directed to a specific market segment which is more open to change.

    The next step goes to the heart of the market with a comfortable friend, the Camry, being converted to HSD. As per your link, with a significantly lower cost the HSD might be added to every vehicle. Who would turn down more power and better FE.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Production has increased incredibly, why has cost not decreased at all? Cost has increased with each new model.
    In the last FIVE years there is no success in decreasing the component costs that are reflected in the sales price, so why do you think the Camry is going to change this in one year?
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Novelty and Eyesore

    The common perception in America seems to be that these vehicles are a novelty, and in some cases an eyesore, especially with unknown models like the Toyota Prius and the Honda Insight. But consumers seem more willing to buy vehicles that look familiar

    Ninety-seven percent of respondents recognize "hybrid" vehicle terminology, 78 percent of respondents would consider buying a hybrid vehicle. If true, these stats are impressive.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    In the last FIVE years there is no success in decreasing the component costs that are reflected in the sales price, so why do you think the Camry is going to change this in one year?

    Its called free market pricing. You are equating cost savings with price reductions. Why? If you can sell every vehicle you make at the price you 'suggest' why reduce it? It's what the Big 3 cannot do, find the price at which the public will buy - without discounts.

    It is extraordinarily good marketing.
  • haefrhaefr Posts: 600
    "Production has increased incredibly, why has cost not decreased at all? Cost has increased with each new model."

    This statement isn't really true - costs have gone down considerably. It's pricing which has remained stable or risen. For the first three years (and still true to some degree) hybrids were sold at a loss in spite of their $2,000-$3,000 premium over similar sized conventional models. Production costs have gone down, but the manufacturers are finally starting to amortize their previous losses, so don't look for an immediate favorable pricing adjustment - especially while demand is still hysterically peaked.

    (The above from my "Making Hay While the Sun Shines" text on economics on sale at booksellers everywhere - get your copy today!)
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    It's actually genius which is why all the other manufacturers are trying to bring hybrids to market. At the advent of the SUV craze it was quite easy for all the manufacturers to bring something to market. They just took a pickup truck and slapped a body around it and called it an SUV. This is different. TECHNOLOGY baby!! Gotta love it and Toyota and Honda have a HUGE jump start.
  • haefrhaefr Posts: 600
    "It's actually genius which is why all the other manufacturers are trying to bring hybrids to market."

    "Genius", aka, "riding the gravy train at Japanese government expense".
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,621
    gen 2's so gen 3 is announced. typical corporate marketing.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    ...and its working! I wonder if Ford will license the next gen and call it a day.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    Prius II is so wrought with problems, Toyota wants to say they have a completely new hybrid. They did that when the first Prius garnered a lot of complaints. Maybe 3 is a charm.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Actually 3 is the current iteration. FYI... the current Prius in the US is MORE reliable than your TDI. I look forward to next year's CR evaluation to prove my point. The only issue was the software update. Why don't you let it go already?? Shall we post links to boards SOLEY devoted to VW lemons to get my point across??
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    http://tinyurl.com/c9bj6

    I hope it is successful. They can use a good break.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    the current Prius in the US is MORE reliable

    Tell that to the person stalled with a new Prius long after the software should be upgraded.

    11/3/05 Prius still stalling.

    AFTER TOYOTA'S RECALLING 75,000 PRIUS IN U.S., I TOOK MY 2005 PRIUS INTO TORRANCE TOYOTA(310-325-75000) TO HAVE THE SOFTWARE"GLITCH"REPAIRED. MICHAEL GALLAGHER(SERVICE ADVISOR) TOLD ME THERE IS ADDITIONAL GLITCHES AND NOW MY CAR IS INOPERABLE.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Gary, "wrought with problems" are you serious? Do you not understand that there are about 100,000 of these on the roads in the USA and at most only a few hundred have had problems?

    that is far from "wrought with problems" and not a higher ratio than any other newly designed car.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    Has the Government investigated any 2004-2005 VW models for massive failures? The Prius has been investigated for the stalling and it is still happening on brand new Prii, sold since the recall by Toyota. I posted a dealers name that claims the Prius still has problems. You have any names of VW dealers that cannot figure out what is wrong with their cars? Maybe it is stupid techs at Toyota dealerships. That would be consistent with Toyota's very low customer service rating.
This discussion has been closed.