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Hybrids in the News

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Comments

  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    ...they don't exist today, and they certainly didn't exist 4-5 years ago.

    Toyota could afford to wait for Aisin several years ago because their only competition at the time was the weak Honda Insight. Ford couldn't afford to wait without getting left behind even further. Now that they are in the game and hybrids are taking off, other suppliers will step in without Ford having to subsidize them.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    The bottom line is that Ford should not be complaining. Read my posts prior. You DON'T rely on a supplier where your major competitor owns a minority interest in THAT supplier. DUMB BUSINESS. GM will bring the VUE to market without reliance on Aisin. I am not sure what parts they're using, but I don't see them complaining and
    whining.

    Burger King was complaining because McDonalds was hogging all the burger buns. DUH.... That's the point.
  • mistermemisterme Posts: 407
    "Burger King was complaining because McDonalds was hogging all the burger buns"

    That's a good one. LOL
  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    The bottom line is that Ford should not be complaining.

    Well, we agree about that. I'm sure they were trying to generate some anti-Toyota feeling, but it just comes off as whining.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Nah... just to get a sound bite in the media and it sure worked. Didn't nothing to help the situation.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    Watched a trailer on this comedy special for TBS. Lots of banter about environmental issues. The Prius owners were poking fun at the Hummer crowd and vice versa. Not sure of the broadcast times. One cute one "Yeah he drives his Prius into a huge heated garage that uses enough energy to supply Lithuania".

    http://www.thecomedyfestival.com/
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    This could be getting out of hand here. Maybe they should just put slots in the race track and run electric cars with the drivers in the pits controlling them. I wonder if Fry said all that with a straight face.

    Formula One should be prepared to switch some time in the future to more efficient and environmentally friendly hybrid cars, according to BAR Honda boss Nick Fry.

    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10097433/
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/hybridwatch01.html

    Now we have a lady who is accusing Toyota of fudging the MPG calculations in the Prius computer to show higher mileage than the car really gets....

    Did she forget her Prozac that morning or what? What a wacko !!
  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    ...I should sue Nissan because the MPG readout on my Maxima is always about 3-4MPG higher than what I actually get. Somehow I don't think Toyota is quaking in its booties over this one.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    The following paragraphs form the consumer affars article you linked is very interesting and very true:

    Indeed, Sandra is not alone in her assertions. Some independent test data suggests hybrid cars routinely get less than 60 percent of EPA estimates while navigating city streets.

    This comes as no surprise to automotive experts. Data from Consumer Reports indicates that hybrid cars get less than 60 percent of EPA estimates while navigating city streets. In Consumer Reports' real-world driving test, the Civic Hybrid averaged 26 mpg in the city, while the Toyota Prius averaged 35 mpg, much less than their respective EPA estimates of 47 and 60 mpg. Hybrid cars performed much closer to EPA estimates in Consumer Reports'
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    ...I should sue Nissan because the MPG readout on my Maxima is always about 3-4MPG higher than what I actually get. Somehow I don't think Toyota is quaking in its booties over this one.

    Sixty percent off EPA is a bit different from 3-4 MPG on your Maxima, dont you think?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    "flaws are significantly worse for hybrids" - and that is the fault of the HYBRID TECHNOLOGY ITSELF? Absolutely not - it can all be attributed to the fact that the Hybrids spend more time in "electric" mode and in "autostop" mode for that idiotic EPA City test - it has nothing bad to say about the hybrids themselves - it's the TEST which is flawed...

    We KNOW that 99% of the population is not getting 60% below EPA because if so, those owners would be rebelling and returning their cars to Toyota.

    quote dewey - "What tests proved the 109MPG figure? "-end quote

    My, My we art behind the 8-ball today:

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05220/550484.stm
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    I trust the GH numbers which are about 48. My sister gets anywhere from 45-52. Whenever I drive it on the highway I easily get 51-53 going between 65-68. That lady DOES sound like an idiot. Unfortunately these are the type of people buying hybrids today. The morons that think... oh wow... I am gonna get 60mpg... Yeah.... right. I understand from that article that Toyota recently sent her a software update via Bluetooth. Now her welcome screen says...

    HAVE YOU HAD YOUR
    PROZAC TODAY?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    The sample at GH is pretty decent - 383 cars, and a lot of those people are not "hypermilers" per se, but people who have normal commutes and normal lives and drive their Prius sensibly.

    48 MPG is 80% of the EPA City rating, and it's 87% of the EPA combined MPG for the Prius, which is 55.5 MPG. That's a long way from missing by 60% !!!
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    And Barlow, the lawyer in the group, was pulled over by police yesterday at 2 a.m. because he was driving too slow.

    In order to achieve extreme fuel economy, the team primarily used a gas-saving technique called pulse and glide. It's a form of coasting that involves releasing the gas pedal, then pressing it slightly again to disengage the electric motors. And as they glide, the drivers glance at a built-in screen displaying vital statistics like average miles per gallon.

    LOL, I can ride faster with my bicycle and save even more gas! That article was more funny than serious :D
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    can get FAR ABOVE EPA if they want to.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    HAVE YOU HAD YOUR
    PROZAC TODAY?


    Falconone,

    Driving extremely slow in a depressive state will enhance gas mileage! Prozac may cause more pedal happy behavior and hinder MPG :D
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    All the article shows is that Real drivers on Real roads

    C'mon these real drivers are as representative to the real population as "Barney the Dinosaur" is representative of aTyrannosaurus rex!
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,871
    We're off into stuff that should be part of the Hybrid Gas Mileage: Good? Bad? As Expected? discussion here.

    Let's stick to recent news items in here. I'll be moving post to the appropriate discussion.

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? pf_flyer@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • mistermemisterme Posts: 407
    I'm beating the EPA by a large margin in my 2004 HCH by driving sensiby around the speed limits. A very courtious driver and no tense moments.
    A fun drive.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    WASHINGTON - Taxing hybrids and other fuel-efficient cars and billing drivers for miles driven are among the approaches being suggested to avert a shortfall in money to maintain the nation's highways.

    http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051125/NEWS01/511250344
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Even if this happened, which involves putting a GPS unit into a person's vehicle and tracking mileage, it will never go over nationally. Some individual states might try it, but it's off the chart ridiculous.

    And it's not FAIR in any way....punish people because their cars get better gas mileage - oh yes, that's completely reasonable !! DUH ???? :confuse:

    Actually, the larger issue is that states are overreacting to lost gas tax revenue. They are not losing "noticable" gas tax to the hybrid owners at the current sales volume of hybrids. Maybe if hybrids hit 30% of the overall USA sales they might feel it, but no state is feeling it now SOLELY because of hybrids.

    States are pushing public transportation like it's the best thing since sliced bread - then guess what? Gas tax revenue goes down because people drive less. Duh again.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    They are not losing "noticable" gas tax to the hybrid owners at the current sales volume of hybrids.

    A hybrid that gets 50 MPG pays half the road tax of the like size car that gets 25 MPG. I think that Congress is anticipating an increase in the percentage of hybrids as an overall percentage of cars on the road. In a state like CA it is already several million dollars per year lost. Mileage tax would be a lot easier than the Oregon solution. You just document your mileage each year when you license the car and pay the mileage tax.

    You can bet that Congress will be looking at this in the next session.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    They giveth and taketh away. It will never get passed. I guess that will effect every fuel efficient vehicle besides hybrids. Mark my word....NEVER!!!!!!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,720
    Never say never. At least one state, Nebraska, already has a fee like this for hybrids.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Gagrice:

    A hybrid that gets 50 MPG pays half the road tax of the like size car that gets 25 MPG.

    And if everybody drove 50 mpg cars vs. 25 mpg (OR less), our balance of trade, balance of payments, and capitol for internal investment would skyrocket overnight! If we could get off our damned daily Oil Fix, we wouldn’t need to spend $75 + Billion in our favorite country this year let alone next, and next, and next after that … If we were running 50% + Ethanol based FFV’s (including hybrids) and the OTR’s were running B100 - 65% of the year, do you really think there would have been a Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, or Ayatollah Khomeini? Do you think almost 3,000 US citizens would have been sent to heaven in the WTC’s or almost 2,000 American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan? What would we do with all this spare investment capital? Maybe repair roads on our internalized income or on somebody else’s borrowed?

    Lastly, what destroys roads, a 1,900 - 3,500 # automobile on 4 wheels or a 60 - 75,000 # one on 18?

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • jpricejprice Posts: 58
    A hybrid that gets 50 MPG pays half the road tax of the like size car that gets 25 MPG.

    The key thing here is "like size car". Any tax of this nature would have to consider the weight of the car in setting the amount of the tax; it would be absurd to charge a Prius (or, even worse, an Insight) the same tax/mile as a Hummer.

    jprice SoCal '05 Silver, #1, 9800 miles, [non-permissible content removed]. mileage 48.2MPG
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    Lastly, what destroys roads, a 1,900 - 3,500 # automobile on 4 wheels or a 60 - 75,000 # one on 18?

    Two things, the 18 wheelers are paying about 10 times as much road tax as the hybrid. There is no way that the 18 wheeler does 10 times as much road damage. In fact I would question if the weight per square inch is as high on the 18 wheeler.

    Whatever money would be saved by importing less oil, would not be going into the tax coffers for use on our deteriorating roads. The idea of taxing by the mile is not theory. It is in testing in Oregon right now. It will spread if state governments see a new source of income.

    Mileage tax is a fair tax, most are not. It was mentioned on several major news sources today, so it is on the table. Time will tell.
This discussion has been closed.