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Hybrids in the News

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  • http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/fool/20041019/bs_foo- l_fool/1098199080

    Interesting article with above title.

    Excerpt:

    "A recent study done by consulting firm Booz Allen predicts that within five years, 20% of the cars on America's roads could be hybrids; within a decade, the percentage could reach 80%. Two popular hybrids now on the market that have nonhybrid analogs -- the Ford (NYSE: F - News) Escape and Honda Civic -- get as much as 50% better gas mileage than their nonhybrid counterparts. America currently accounts for 40% of worldwide gasoline sales. Multiply those numbers -- 20% x 50% x 40% -- and worldwide gasoline consumption could slow by 4% over the next five years and by 16% over the next dec"

    Pretty amazing how economics works!

    YMMV,

    MidCow
  • "a constant 33 Hp ICE loss in the Prius...I also tend to think like an engineer. BSEE, MBA if it matters"

    Then, you should know if electric generator add or subtract energy from ICE. The 34hp generator(MG1) takes away power from the ICE and pass it on to the electric motor. This is the equation:

    76hp(ICE) - 34hp(ICE->MG1) + 34hp(MG1->MG2) + 34hp(Battery) = 110hp

    If you disagree with this correct equation, please explain in detail.

    Dennis
  • The result was the Prius Greensport, a 2004 Prius with the stock Hybrid Synergy Drive® system, plus a couple of modifications: bigger wheels and tires, and a change in gearing.

    Prius Greensport claimed the first Bonneville hybrid production car speed record at 130.794 miles per hour with Aaron Robinson behind the wheel. Shigeyuki Hori, Toyota's Executive Chief Engineer for Prius, and Fumiaki Kobayashi, a Toyota Vice President, also had fast runs on the salt. Kobayashi says, "I think it is important that Prius has set the first hybrid-car speed record. We demonstrated that hybrids could exhibit high performance. It is important for us to challenge ourselves and the auto world to see what hybrids can do. Prius Greensport will inspire us to imagine new possibilities, and might challenge others to try Bonneville themselves."

    image
    image
    http://www.toyota.com/hybridsynergyview/2004/october/bonneville.h- - - tml

    Dennis
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Wait until they get that Hot Rod Honda Accord Hybrid out there next year - Prius can kiss the speed record adios !!! :)
  • 76hp(ICE) - 34hp(ICE->MG1) + 34hp(MG1->MG2) + 34hp(Battery) = 110hp

    "ROFLMA :)"

    Seriously, care to explain why you are rolling on the floor? ;-D Couldn't come up with a better explanation?

    Dennis
  • I thought HAH 2005 is suppose to come out on Dec 2004. BTW, Honda has to pass strict rules to participate in this. I have no doubt that HAH can set a new hybrid speed record.

    If you remember, Accord Diesel 2.2liter with 140hp set diesel speed record at 133mph. Prius ICE is only 76hp and can reach over 130mph. You see how big aerodynamics play at highspeed. That is a huge achievement in production cars.

    Dennis
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Hang in there! The Accord Diesel was completely stock. There were more than couple of modifications, and "helping hands" required for the 131 mph run of the Prius...

    - A “different” interior (passenger seat was replaced with tank for ice-cold water as a cooler to the car’s electrical systems)
    - Chassis dropped by a hefty five inches!
    - Reshaped fenders to allow wider tires
    - New shocks and springs (30 times stiffer than stock)
    - Atkinson Cycle 1.5 replaced with Otto Cycle 1.5 (hah!) primarily to bump up the power output (about 125-130 HP total)
    - The car was also pushed to 40 mph by a pickup since Toyota figured the batteries will run out of juice at 128 mph (and the course was going to be four mile long, the third mile being the “timed mile”)

    European Prius comes with better suspension and 16" rims.

    Prius (European or not), comes with a very basic suspension set up that is usually found in cheapest cars. If it were, indeed, better than double wishbones at all corners, Toyota should have used it in Lexus GS and LS. Honda (Accord and above) and Mercedes use unequal length double wishbone front, and 5-link double wishbone suspension rear.

    Honda does use MacPherson Struts front and torsion beam axle rear (like Prius and Corolla) but only in its cheapest cars (based off global economy platform, like the Jazz). Here is a link that is better than relying on company PR to understand the basics of suspension set ups.

    I have not seen many reviews of Toyota Prius in Europe, and the few that I have, rarely say anything about its handling. An excerpt from autoexpress (UK):

    “Fully charged, the Prius can travel a mere 2km on electric power before the engine cuts in to recharge the battery. Performance on the open road is reasonable, though the Prius gets noisy when you demand maximum acceleration, partly a result of the CVT automatic transmission. Government figures say it's more economical than most diesels, but we didn't find that on the road. Roomy, comfortable and very easy to drive, most models get a great JBL stereo. The boot sill is high and there is not as much luggage space as comparable cars, back seats up or down.”

    The same source on Accord’s “ride quality”:
    “There may not be a focussed Type-R version, but the Accord's wishbone suspension is tuned for a sporting drive, but not at the expense of ride comfort. It's an impressive set up, that provides good body control and should make for a relaxed long distance cruiser.

    An excerpt from the same source on Civic Hybrid:
    “If you think a 1.3-litre engine in such a large car suggests a lack of power on the open road, think again. Because the electric motor is used to support the engine, boosting power to levels of far large engines - yet effectively, this is 'free' power as the motor is charged not from a mains source, but from energy regenerated when the car's braking. It's all exceedingly clever and works brilliantly in practice - nearly 58mpg is possible. “

    Honda has to pass strict rules to participate in this

    What rules? Here some related excerpt from an article in C&D:

    "Since no one had ever taken a hybrid to Bonneville before, all Toyota had to do was show up and complete the timed mile twice. The average speed, whether it was 130 mph or 30, would be a record for hybrids. There was only one problem with the plan: The SCTA wouldn't publish a record without a class designation.

    Bonneville's organizers have nothing against a car with two engines, especially one that only goes 104 mph. The Pigasus Racing streamliner run by C. Calvin Smith—a streamliner is basically a syringe on wheels—packs two Oldsmobile V-8s and goes over 180 mph. But when Leininger began researching how a Prius might get into the SCTA record book, the picture wasn't good."

    That being said, HAH wouldn't need massive modifications to go to almost 150 mph.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    As a consumer, I answered it from a buyer's point of view. It is not even clear how much 04 Prius battery cost so, your guess is as good as mine.

    Fair enough. My question stemmed from your earlier argument on cost of batteries/ultra-capacitor pack. I guess now that is a mute point.

    When a full hybrid(HSD) powertrain can output variable thrust at any speed, there is no need to worry about top end, bottom end, middle and somewhere in between.

    There is a top end, bottom end and somewhere in between end regardless of transmission being used. Not too long ago, you came up with 110 HP for Prius. That would be its top end.

    My calculations were based on current highest specific power NiMH modules

    Why, and only for Euro Accord Hybrid, but not for other instances?

    BTW, I hold a masters degree in electronics engineering.
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    And now that we have everyone's resume on file, let's get back to Hybrids in the News....
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    You scared everybody.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Story about higher gas prices forcing more buyers to consider Hybrids:

    http://www.detnews.com/2004/metro/0410/21/a01-310998.htm
  • rfruthrfruth Posts: 630
    And on the business front FedEx isn't going to let the proverbial grass grow under their feet - snip - FedEx Express is taking its hybrid electric trucks to New York City, where 10 were put on the streets Wednesday in time for the holiday shopping season
    http://memphis.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2004/10/18/daily17- - .html
  • rfruthrfruth Posts: 630
    GM isn't done and neither am I - snip - Oahu Transit Services, together with the City and County of Honolulu, Department of Transportation Services set a significant environmental example this week by adding 10 hybrid buses to its mass transit fleet. Honolulu joins the growing ranks of communities investing in transit buses powered by General Motor's hybrid technology, which offers up to 60 percent greater fuel economy and up to 90 percent cleaner emissions than conventional diesel buses. http://tinyurl.com/4sav9
  • rfruthrfruth Posts: 630
    Here come the diesels, bring on the ULED ! -snip - As we all go diesel crazy Volkswagen has expanded its turbodiesel offerings in the expanding luxury sector of the new car market. The widespread acceptance of diesel-powered vehicles is increasingly evident in the upper echelons of the market, with Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz all enjoying record sales of oil-burning versions of their most luxurious limousines.

    http://motortrend.com/features/news/112_news20/
  • This article explains what the hold-up is on putting the California HOV access law into effect, and what's being done about it. Hybrid drivers may want to write their Congressional reps. after the election.

    http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=25670
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,624
    A reminder that one can't trust everything we see in print; even journalists make mistakes sometimes:

    http://www.boston.com/cars/news/october/07_hybrid.html
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,624
    Look at the photo.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    that's not a 2005 Prius?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    What is it? I'm waiting with baited breath...
This discussion has been closed.