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Hybrids in the News
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Comments
Anyone remember standing in line for 2 hours for 8 gallons of gas? Where were you in '73, or '79?
The alternative to a hybrid is a 500 gal. gas tank next to my tool shed- $1,000 for the tank and $1,500 more for 6 months of gas. Plus instalation. I checked. :confuse:
If you're going to save the world, start small. If you can't do it all yourself, don't just quit.
Oil dependency is reduced one mile per gallon per person at a time.
The alternative to a hybrid is a 500 gal. gas tank next to my tool shed- $1,000 for the tank and $1,500 more for 6 months of gas. Plus instalation. I checked."
Not a real good idea - gas goes bad...
I wonder if Toyota would ever consider such a thing for a Prius? A Prius wagon sounds like a good bet to me ...!
They "are" supposedly going to have a hatchback coupe in the 2006 models, but nothing I have seen or read has said that the HCH and the other 4 dr models will be any different..... :confuse:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8272373/site/newsweek/
http://www.earthtoys.com/emagazine.php?issue_number=05.06.01&article=naftc
HCH will be different!
Any links? Anyone know? :confuse:
1. They have a somewhat distinct advantage by having hybrid models of mainstream vehicles - unlike the Prius which is "different" in it's styling (some people like it, some don't). Many people want a "normal" looking car with hybrid components.
2. Honda saves money across the line by not creating different body styles on the same name (rather different from the GM business model). So all Civics will share the same basic sheet metal, same for Accord. I don't think Honda is anticipating creating a completely separate line of hybrid cars, which would have different styling if they did go that direction.
Time will confirm that the HCH will be styled differently from the regaular Civic. How differently I dont know--but definitely there will be a marked difference from the way the current HCH resembles the current Civics.
I have read the official news myself and sooner or later(assuming you do follow the news) everyone else will find this out.
In a future date I will do a "I told you so post".
That's why I am waiting for you to point me to the story you saw. I searched the Globe and Mail Canada website and that other site you mentioned for stories last Friday June 17th which said anything about the HCH being styled differently, and I found nothing. :confuse:
Can you point me to a story? Google News cannot find one. Thanks.....
"The new hybrid model will have more significant differences in exterior and interior styling and options to distinguish it from the gasoline-only model, according to Mendel.
"It won't be as different from a conventional Civic as Prius is from a [Toyota] Corolla," Mendel said. "There will be a couple of unique colors only for this model and we will identify it better as the hybrid version." He did not elaborate."
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-civic17jun17,1,5841833.story?coll=la-headlines-busin- - ess
No manufacturer has been more aggressive in bringing hybrids to market than Toyota. So you can imagine my surprise when I read the results of an interview with the Japanese automaker's new chief of research and development. According to Kazuo Okamato, hybrid technology just doesn't make sense for American motorists. Actually make that dollars and cents. Okamato told the Financial Times that "when you just use the argument of fuel efficiency," the technology is "not justified." In other words, you can't save enough money on gas to pay off the higher price for a hybrid vehicle. That's not to say Okamato is writing off the technology. A hybrid's biggest appeal, he suggests, is to those who want to do their part to save the environment, something you can't always work into an economic equation. That's the sort of logic that has confounded many of Toyota's competitors, including General Motors. But the long waiting list for Toyota's hybrids suggests American buyers are clearly motivated by more than just economics.
I, and so many others have said this. I told you so.
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/June2005/07/c8852.html
From the story:
Accord Hybrid $2952 cheaper over 5 years...
My personal cost was only $1524 over a comparable EX model. So mine will pay in less than 4 years, GAS SAVINGS alone.
Generalities are fine, but there are exceptions to EVERY rule......
If I find further web proof, I will provide the link on this forum
larsb, "Hybrids in the News" #2232, 21 Jun 2005 10:34 am
It talks a little about the "differentiation" but it does not say that the body styles will be different. My guess is that it will be a little more than now (the HCH has a different front air scoop and different antenna and a hybrid badge) but nothing drastic.
They will certainly be nothing like the huge complete body difference like the Prius and all the other Toyota cars.
Railroadjames(Prius is where its at)
http://www.autoextremist.com
500mpg with a hybrid plugin is bogus according to autoextremist! Is it really bogus?
If a city driver does not drive over 20miles a day (such a driver represents a large percentage of drivers) then the electrical motor will be the primary form of locomotion for hybrid plug ins. Gas engine usage would be minimal! So 500mpg is not bogus at all. Appears autoextremist's views are so extreme that they cant understand such a simple notion as a plug in hybrid!
I cant find one valid argument in autoextremist that refutes what Friedman wrote about GM/Toyota?
Are there any forum members here who can find any autoextremist statements that resemble reality? Please let me know?
Thanks
And you think Autoextremist is slanted in it's thinking??
GM is not alone! Ford, VW and MB have unaffordable wages and benefit obligations relative to Toyota/Honda/Nissan! The superiority of the Japanese have more to do with its lack of obligations ( more money for R & D)
Having said that would Toyota want to inherit GM"s financial burdens? In the end these are the alternatives if GM defaults on its obligations:
1) The US taxpayer picks up the tab and pays GM retirees /workers their healthcare/pension benefits
2) GM retirees are left holding the bag without any penison/healthcare benefits that they rightfully earned.
3) Toyota negoitates an agreement with GM/US government/labor unions in assuming a portion of these obligations as a part of a acquistion agreement.
IMO I think alternative 3 looks more tempting
pardon my ignorance but why is 500mpg not probable for a plug in hybrid. Especially for someone who drives/works in the city and does not go beyond 20 miles a day. Is the technology not here today for someone to plug in a hybrid and use solely an electrical motor for 20 miles without gas?
Well, I'm certainly not going to try and convince you to follow the Autoextremist point of view, but the above statement is incorrect. Autoextremist is considered a "legitimate" journalistic site and they are invited to all the usual press deals. Additionally, the creator has decades of experience in the auto industry which makes him an "expert auto reviewer" in my book. More so than Friedman, that's for sure.
And as far as being "pro domestic anti import", you've obviously never read his numerous rants against GM. No, he's pretty even-handed as far as I can see, but I suppose if your opinions tend to be at the extremes, someone in the middle can seem to be way out of whack...
Hmm, you are aware this is pronounced to rhyme with foe? Foe News?
What bothers me about these sort of claims is not that they are technically impossible, but rather that they assume the existance of things that don't yet exist. We don't have 4 gallons of alcohol to add for every gallon of gasoline. We don't have the electrical genereration capacity to make hydrogen for the ill-named hydrogen economy. We don't even have an electrical distribution system that would permit everyone to have a plug-in hybrid so that they could recharge their vehicle overnight.
When petroleum finally does run its course, we will have some real problems. We need well thought ideas, not extremist ones.
The question is not free electricity. The point is plug in hybrids will use a source of energy that is cheaper than petroleum. It will make us less oil dependent to a volatile part of the world. New electricity can be generated by new nuclear plants which may be more economical than other energy alternatives.
The point about hybrids is about saving fuel and low emissions. And plug ins wii enhance both fuel efficiency and low emissions.
The hottest marketing concept for cars today is fuel efficiency! I know that there are many who will love a plug in hybrid and wont mind the hassles of plugging it in a wall during the night. In fact I dont even consider it a hassle at all. My wife's 83 Mercedes 300d has to be plugged in daily during cold winter nights---this fact has not burdened us at all!
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/tablees1b.html
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?article_id=2402§ion_id=14&page_number=1#item1
But let us hope that in a some future date battery technology will be good enough to provide reasonable priced plug in hybrids.
WIth high petro prices---I think the race to develop better batteries has become a higher priority than before.
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050329/295343.html?.v=1
"The overall fuel efficiency and environmental impact of any transportation include extracting or producing the fuel, getting it to the vehicle and consuming it on board. Calculations of this so-called well-to-wheel efficiency by various experts put hybrids at the top of automobile types. Representative numbers from the American Society of Mechanical Engineers tell the tale:
gasoline, 19%; all electric, 21%; hydrogen fuel cell, 27%; gasoline-electric hybrid, 32%."
jprice SoCal '05 Silver, #1, 5500 miles, [non-permissible content removed]. mileage 46.5MPG
http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/special/fchv/fchv_1.html
Good article on fuel cells:
http://www.limtechnology.com/Pages/fuelcells.htm