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Hybrids in the News

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  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I thought diesels were a taboo topic but........now I can say what I want to say:

    Molokai, just to keep you better informed BMW, Audi and Honda are introducting diesels soon. All three are high quality marques although Honda #11 rating based on JD Power 2005 Quality results is nothing to boast about. BMW is #3 brand and Audi is #8---not too shabby in terms of quality dont you think? Hopefully Honda will keep up with the Germans soon?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    And you think now, when there isn't even a gas crisis, diesels will?

    ABSOLUTELY!! I do think so. This is not the 70s or 80s and to compare todays diesels with yesterdays diesels is like comparing a Commodore PCs with Pentium4 PCs.

    My wife's diesel was manufactured during the disreputable era of diesels--a 83 MB300D. That MB deserve a Guiness World Record for reliability, quality and durability(attributes that are somewhat important for a car dont you think?)
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,859
    This is Hybrids in the news. Let's not start up the diesel vs hybrids thing again!

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  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "ABSOLUTELY!! I do think so. "

    Yes, I think diesels will be much more successful this time around once diesel fuel is cleaned up for improved emissions.

    But, and a big but at that, people on here are making it seem like a couple of diesels are going to come onto the market in a couple of years and take the U.S. by storm. To think that a country so in love with the gas automobile, is going to switch over to diesel overnight is ludicrous, that's all!!
  • blaneblane Posts: 2,017
    Unless I missed something, Toyota didn't announce whether their upcoming Camry Hybrid will be a four or a six cylinder vehicle. Has anybody here seen anything specific?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    "To think that a country so in love with the gas automobile, is going to switch over to diesel overnight is ludicrous, that's all!! "

    Cant argue with that! It will interesting to see how gas efficient vehicles develop in the future. My bias will be towards the best one based on pricing and gas savings, whether hybrid, diesel or electrical( Mitsubushi in 2010 intends to introduce a value priced electrical Colt---that should be interesting assuming Mitsubushi survives until 2010!!)
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    Of course hybrids will stick around - doh. What I'm saying is that the two main arguements for them, lower emissions and gas milage, will not be that big a deal in the near future. For the same reson you don't see diesels sell in every segment (at lower displacements in cheaper cars, the economics of diesels don't make as much sense and so they don't sell) the hybirds will be a specialty item for a long time.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    I wouldn't call hybrids specialty cars anymore. If anything, they're becoming much more mainstream. Hybrids already outsell diesel cars in the US already.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Honda hybrids surpassed 100k sales worldwide. Note that Canada has 1/10 of the US population and almost 1/5 of US sales of Honda hybrids. Also VW TDI sales represent 40% of total Canadian sales vs. US of 10-15%(mainly due to certain States banning diesel sales). I guess you can say we Canadians are more frugal !

    http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=3&id=338220
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    This is the competition for the hybrids in the next couple years. Even the gas version gets 36.6 MPG on the highway. Nothing Honda or Toyota sells here comes close in a hybrid or non-hybrid.

    http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new_cars/touran
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    I guess you can say we Canadians are more frugal !

    Maybe your government uses more common sense than ours.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    It all boils down to higher gas taxes in Canada versus the USA.

    There are two sides to the debate:

    1) Let market prices of fuel determine the gas efficiency of cars with minimal taxes.

    2) Let the Government tax fuel highly in order to influence conservation. This sounds logical until you discover how Governments wastefully spend the additional funds.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    What is your price for gas today? We are flying to Vancouver next week for a weeks vacation. Should I bring sacks full of money for the gas in the rental car? :)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    We price gas by litres not gallons. Currently regular gas goes for 84.7 cents. I dont know the exact conversion fo litres/gallon but that can easily be found on a web site.

    No need to bring sacks full of money unless you are renting a Hummer H2.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    Probably a Malibu from Alamo, unless they have a hybrid for rent. :D That is about $3.15 per US gallon Canadian dollars. We plan to check out as many of the gardens as we can in both Vancouver & Victoria.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    quote Gagrice-"Nothing Honda or Toyota sells here comes close in a hybrid or non-hybrid."-end quote

    The Touran is not sold here either - what's your point??? :D

    P.S. The Estima Hybrid minivan sold in Japan gets 44 MPG US....:D
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    Actually the Touran is much smaller than the minivans sold in the U.S. It's about the same size as the Accord hybrid, which even with a big V6 is rated 38 mpg highway. Put a I4 (like the Touran) in it and, who knows? About the closest thing in the U.S. is the upcoming Mazda5, which should get in the 30s highway with its standard (non-hybrid) powertrain, or maybe the Focus wagon, which easily gets in the 30s highway. Wouldn't take much to bump these up a few mpg to match the Touran.
  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    We price gas by litres not gallons. Currently regular gas goes for 84.7 cents. I dont know the exact conversion fo litres/gallon but that can easily be found on a web site.

    Translates to $3.20/gallon. About $1.00 more than Detroit.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000757044464/

    The opinion of the autobloggers above seem to be shared among many! A large number of people are interested in a hybrid but are waiting until hybirds are priced at a level that is economically justifiable in terms of fuel savings. That will be the time when hybrids will break out of its niche and become more mainstream. Assuming reliability stats remain positive overall.
  • cdptrapcdptrap Posts: 485
    Has anyone heard more about the 2007 Toyota Sienna Hybrid? A couple of recent (Mar/May 2005) short blurps on-line spoke of its pending 2007 introduction.

    With a large family of 6, we would have loved to replace our current Sienna with a hybrid version.

    California state gov has a website that contains a list of cars (ICE and Hybrid) that produce at most 2 pounds of pollution in 100K miles. Some have great mileage, some are average. Unfortunately, none of the current minivans is on that list. Hopefully, the hybrid Sienna will.

    Going slightly off-topic:
    A few "debates" earlier spoke of Touran and how it puts Toyota/honda hybrids to shame.

    It will be more helpful to compare oranges to oranges in this "Hybrid News" forum so we can all learn of new cars and models of a specific class that compare well or worse against hybrids of same or similar class.

    The Touran uses a tiny engine that produces 100 hp @ 5600 RPM and 109 lb-ft of max torque @ 3800 RPM. It is smaller than any minivan we have in America regardless of MFG. It likely can compare against a Ford Escort type wagon or at best a Taurus wagon. It certainly cannot compare against a mid-size SUV, hybrid or not, nor should it be compared against a sub-compact or compact sedan, hybrid or not.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "With a large family of 6, we would have loved to replace our current Sienna with a hybrid version. "

    The Sienna is about 4100 pounds, right? So it would likely get similar mileage to the Lexus 400, and would have the same engine and drivetrain?

    It is already getting 19/26 MPG, so I suppose getting 32 (city)/29 (highway) would be useful, if you do mostly in town driving. The road mileage would be too close to really repay the extra cost of the hybrid. As I recall, the Sienna got 23 MPG in town on some of the reviews.

    However, the Sienna might also normally carry heavier loads than the RX, since it is a minivan.
  • molokaimolokai Posts: 313
    I doubt they'll even bring that car here. Most people do not want to deal with the horrible VW network of dealers.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Well, the people who say they are waiting for that are NEVER going to buy a hybrid...Hybrid components will ALWAYS add cost to a vehicle - that will NEVER change.

    The cost difference will continue to get smaller because of technology and battery advances, but it will PROBABLY never become a "slam dunk" to recover the extra cost by fuel savings in 4 years or less, IF you are a pessimist who thinks gas savings is only $400 a year or something low like that. I personally tend to think the number is closer to the $900 per year survey number !!!

    What all those "waiters" are missing out on is "gas savings RIGHT NOW EVERY DAY." The last survey of Hybrid owners found they are saving on average $900 per year, PLENTY to cover the extra cost of the hybridization in the high mileage hybrids for sure. I myself am spending only about $43 per month on fuel, compared to $172 per month last year before I bought my hybrid.

    The "waiters" are also going to lose out on the tax break, which unless extended will expire in 2006. This is a prime example of the old wise statement, "He Who Hesitates Is Lost."

    I can't imagine a day when a hybrid will cost less than $1200 more than the comparable gas version of the car.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    "The cost difference will continue to get smaller because of technology and battery advances, but it will never become a "slam dunk" to recover the extra cost by fuel savings in 4 years or less. "

    Of course a hybrid version of the same car will not equal the price of a gas version. Similarily an auto tranny continues to cost more than a manual tranny.

    You are quite a pessimist! Whose to say that the next generation of hybrids will not be able to break-even in 4 years? Assuming you are correct---hybrids will remain niche vehicles. But I believe you are incorrect, I think there will be substantial improvements in future batteries, electrical motors, software/hardware components in a few years hence that upcoming hybrids will make todays fuel efficient hybrids look like a joke !
  • molokaimolokai Posts: 313
    I expect that the Prius will outsell the 3 series BMW within 3 years.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    LOL!!!!

    Now we are really focused on this forum's subject matter!

    Also the BMW 3 series is a niche vehicle! So outselling a niche vehicle does not make a Prius a non-niche vehicle!
  • molokaimolokai Posts: 313
    I see 3 series all over the place. Far from a niche vehicle!! Especially in Europe!!
  • cdptrapcdptrap Posts: 485
    It is already getting 19/26 MPG, so I suppose getting 32 (city)/29 (highway) would be useful, if you do mostly in town driving. As I recall, the Sienna got 23 MPG in town on some of the reviews.

    Yes, we use our van mostly in town with kids in tow. Our '99 Sienna is close to 4K lbs too and gets 18.5 MPG when driven normally but conservatively. It yields 20 MPG when driven with great care. A hybrid version that yields 30MPG will definitely help. Our local gas price hovers at $2.85 so it is slowly burning a hole in our pockets.

    Paying the right price is important but recouping cost of a hybrid is not our only focus. It is all a balance of needs, product value and environmental concerns.

    A car that has high safety rating, is "cleaner" (driveclea.ca.gov), reliable, long lasting, capable of meeting all our hauling needs and yet return a good gas mileage is worth considering.

    If a hybrid version can be made to last beyond 240K miles or over 15 years until all our kids leave home, it is definitely worth considering. This is realistic because we have 2 gas sipping domestic compact ICE models, considered poor quality by CR, that kept on working past 200K miles.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Yeah unfortunately you maybe right! Popularity in this case is a curse! Once BMW caters more to the mainstream they distance themselves more from the enthusiasts who made their cars popular in the first place!
  • molokaimolokai Posts: 313
    Absolutely!! I love the 3 series and even like the bangled new version! I know we're a bit off topic, but let's get back on track. The 3 series is in the Edmunds news today as Dewey claims it may be hybridized. There... I did my civic duty!! :D
This discussion has been closed.