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Hybrids in the News

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Comments

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    OK, let us forget a debate about journalism! Let us focus on just one question:

    How will oil dependance not be reduced if the majority of vehicles worldwide are plug-in hybrids?

    The article I linked above answers the question quite nicely.

    If anyone disagree with Friedman's opinion---I would like to know why?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,046
    Personally the plugin in hybrid is the only logical hybrid for my needs. However the energy still has to come from somewhere. Our electrical grid would be hard pressed to handle enough cars to make any significant reduction in fossil fuel use. It seems the hybrids are going to encourage people to drive more than they would if the cost of fuel was a limiting factor. The original hybrids were targeting 80 MPG. That is far cry from the 3 hybrids that get around 50 MPG with the proper driving skills. Plugin Prius could get 100+ MPG depending on your driving needs. There the cost of manufacturing jumps to the heavens. IF they can ever get the cost of a BIG battery down below a couple thousand dollars the plugin option will be feasible. I thought that a better way to save oil was to encourage people to give up their SUVs and PU trucks. Seems the latest hybrids are all saying it is OK to have a big honkin SUV because we just cut the fuel usage a few percentage points. I don't think without the use of nuclear energy you can cut the fossil fuel usage more than fractionally with the plugin Hybrids.
  • sinepmansinepman Posts: 137
    I think you have awakened a sleeping giant!!!!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,897
    That's really enough. We don't need to dredge up an argument that I deleted the first time. Guess what's going to happen to it this time?

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  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    So please enlighten me with Reality and tell me how oil dependance will not be reduced by a majority of plug-in hybrids

    My point was that I don't believe we will ever have a majority of hybrids - plug-ins or otherwise - so the entire article becomes useless fantasy.

    IMHO, of course. ;)
  • molokaimolokai Posts: 313
    There will never be enough penetration in the hybrid market to make a dent. Only the smart people who have embraced this technology will benefit, as their fuel costs will be much, much less.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,913
    You guys are off into trying to prove something to each other again, and it's not likely that you're ever going to succeed. So let's stick to discussing the news about hybrids OK??

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  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,812
    "There will never be enough penetration in the hybrid market to make a dent."

    Eventually, something has to replace oil. People argue about when we will run out of fossil fuels (or rather, when it will cease to be economically viable to use them), but most people think they are a finite resource. There are some exceptions, scientists who think that oil is being continuously created inside the earth, but most scientists agree the source was those big, fat dinasoars that died and turned into oil.

    Unfortunately, if this statement (about hybrids, not big, fat dinasoars) is found to be true, hybrids will not be here to stay. They need more economies of scale in order to bring the costs down. Low Sulfur fuel for diesels is right around the corner (yielding MPG similar to hybrids), and hydrogen as a fuel isn't much further away.

    But it will not be all a loss: I have no doubts that some of the electrical knowledge gained with the hybrids will be carried over into the pure electric propulsion of the fuel cell vehicle, when the infrastructure to support them is available and the kinks in the technology have been worked out.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Hopefully technology progresses to the point where plug in hybrids become afforably feasible for the majority. I guess today it is an expensive option, but tomorrow who knows?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    My point was that I don't believe we will ever have a majority of hybrids - plug-ins or otherwise -

    Today you are correct. Supply and demand pricing pressures are the best way to persuade the majority. There may be a point when only Hollywood celebrities can afford driving gasoline cars--I yearn for the day when gas cars become a rare status symbol and plug in hybrids becomes so average and passe. ;)
  • autonomousautonomous Posts: 1,769
    The irony is that the Escape is already a hybrid! Fantasy Land is where the dinosaurs live that think that hybrid technology is not gaining ground. All the major manufacturers (GM, Toyota/Lexus, Honda, Ford, Daimler, Mazda ...) are moving in the right direction finally and within a decade it will not be uncommon to hear drivers moan "my last car only got 100 mpg". Kudos to all those who are working towards the solution! :D
  • library1library1 Posts: 54
    My least favorite fantasy is that Saudi Arabia will implode next year, and the resultant oil shortages will make gas rationing politically acceptible, and I will have bought a brand new minivan.

    Anyone remember standing in line for 2 hours for 8 gallons of gas? Where were you in '73, or '79?

    The alternative to a hybrid is a 500 gal. gas tank next to my tool shed- $1,000 for the tank and $1,500 more for 6 months of gas. Plus instalation. I checked. :confuse:

    If you're going to save the world, start small. If you can't do it all yourself, don't just quit.

    Oil dependency is reduced one mile per gallon per person at a time.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,812
    "
    The alternative to a hybrid is a 500 gal. gas tank next to my tool shed- $1,000 for the tank and $1,500 more for 6 months of gas. Plus instalation. I checked."

    Not a real good idea - gas goes bad...
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    How about those gas stabilizers if you keep your car out of commission for a long time.
  • otis1otis1 Posts: 142
    I love the idea of hydrogen fuel cells, but no one has figured out what to do when it gets cold outside. I'd also like to see it suceed, but there are many technological barriers.
  • cammer2cammer2 Posts: 38
    As I anxiously await the introduction of the new Lexus IS - a vehicle that will be offered in sedan, coupe (and used to be) wagon form, I had to wonder ....

    I wonder if Toyota would ever consider such a thing for a Prius? A Prius wagon sounds like a good bet to me ...! :D
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Like your idea about a wagon Prius! Would suit my needs just fine.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Heard the future hybrid Civic will be styled quite differently from a conventional civic. I think this will help Honda sales, especially if the hybrid Accord is distinctly redesigned to look different from other Accords.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I have been keeping up with the new 2006 Civic news, and so far I have read or heard nothing at all that indicates the HCH will be any different from the standard EX or LX.

    They "are" supposedly going to have a hatchback coupe in the 2006 models, but nothing I have seen or read has said that the HCH and the other 4 dr models will be any different..... :confuse:
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    This one's pretty good - great line "Not unless you have a jack" !!

    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8272373/site/newsweek/
  • mirexmirex Posts: 68
    Below is an interesting article about hybrid technology. Lexus states that the RX400h is a parallel hybrid. The "Full Hybrid" section of this article better defines what the 400h delivers.

    http://www.earthtoys.com/emagazine.php?issue_number=05.06.01&article=naftc
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    It is not what I think but what was announced by Honda. This was reported by last week's Thursday Globe and Mail and the Friday National Post Automotive sections .

    HCH will be different!
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I have searched the web and cannot locate any story that says the 2006 Civic Hybrid will be different than the other 2006 4-door Civics, other than one article which said there will be a couple of different colors offered, which is no change from past years.

    Any links? Anyone know? :confuse:
  • tomslycktomslyck Posts: 70
    That's a fascinating article. It calls the Lexus a Power Hybrid because it uses the same size gas engine as the regular Lexus and adds some power along with a little fuel economy. That's a pretty good description.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,812
    Honda is unlikely to have different body styles on the HCH and HAH for two reasons:

    1. They have a somewhat distinct advantage by having hybrid models of mainstream vehicles - unlike the Prius which is "different" in it's styling (some people like it, some don't). Many people want a "normal" looking car with hybrid components.

    2. Honda saves money across the line by not creating different body styles on the same name (rather different from the GM business model). So all Civics will share the same basic sheet metal, same for Accord. I don't think Honda is anticipating creating a completely separate line of hybrid cars, which would have different styling if they did go that direction.
  • molokaimolokai Posts: 313
    Aren't they restyling the Civic for '06? If so, I would imagine that their hybrid version would share the same body style. I understand it is quite sleek.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    So far, no *quality* spyshots have been available for the 4 door version. The Civic Si Coupe has been seen and reported widely (was at a few car shows) but so far, all we have seen is a rear view of a 4-dr sedan and a little slice of the passenger side from the rear. Nothing concrete. :mad:
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Heed the following words:

    Time will confirm that the HCH will be styled differently from the regaular Civic. How differently I dont know--but definitely there will be a marked difference from the way the current HCH resembles the current Civics.

    I have read the official news myself and sooner or later(assuming you do follow the news) everyone else will find this out.

    In a future date I will do a "I told you so post".
This discussion has been closed.