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Hybrid Diesels?

SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
Are they in our future? How will they perform? What will the emission factors be?
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Comments

  • daysailerdaysailer Posts: 711
    in another thread, a discussion of economy, fuel or otherwise, in a $58K vehicle is pointless, if not ludicrous.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,719
    Oh, so it is not important for an expensive vehicle to get high MPG?
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,225
    how's it ludicrous? It's not like there's other $58k SUV's that are performing better and getting anywhere near the fuel economy.

    You said At present, diesels in the USA are merely another example of vehicles which offer improved fuel economy at the expense of performance

    The new mercedes CDI is also another example. Better performance and much better fuel economy than the gas counterpart.

    I think the current breed of Hybrids sacrifice more performance for the sake of fuel economy than the current diesels. So far the Prius is slower and more expensive than a TDI. Mileage depends on who you're talking to. We'll see what happens with the next round of V6 Hybrids, but I suspect a diesel hybrid would give similar/better performance and better mpg.
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    The mercedes grand sport is a hybrid diesel, and very attractive--v8, 6-seater, 0-60 in sub 7, and good fuel economy.

    Saying that fuel economy is "pointless" in a 58K vechicle assumes that only cost is a factor, which is VERY not true. I care a lot about fuel economy for many reasons, environment, dependence, politics, and a future when the oil runs out. I am of the opinion that people are not going to give up size and power until the oil coming out of the ground slows to a trickle, so we need to find ways to provide that while preserving our resources as best we can.

    dave
  • Hey there is Toyota Volta with 400h V6 HSDdrivetrain, 3 seater, 0-60 in less than 4 sec and 40+mpg. Can Diesel beat that? A hybrid diesel will be interesting because there are more energy in the fuel.

    Dennis
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    Otherwise, why are you posting it here?
  • "why are you posting it here?"

    Well, how about to see where hybrid diesel stand against hybrid gas? You sound like a sore person from looking at your other posts. I don't want to ruin this thread because there are so much to discuss regarding how much benefit diesel can get if combined with electric vs. gas electric. If it is not welcome here then, have a great discussion in this thread.

    Dennis
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    There's other hybrid vs diesel threads, so, thanks.
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    I wonder if one of those would fit under my hood??

    There's a pretty good reason there hasn't been as many hybrid diesel cars produced. The gains to be had are less. Diesels are already throttle-free and lean-burn, so for one thing moving from a 2.0L to a 3.0L doesn't hurt efficiency as much as with a gas engine, and a smaller lean-burn engine is one of the reasons for moving to a hybrid.

    Of course, there's regenerative braking and other efficiencies to be had but with the GrandSport, the hybrid makes the diesel 20% more efficient, which is not the same gain as a gas engine gets ( although the net efficiency is still higher ).
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    It would definitely take a lot of space to put a 3200 HP diesel engine in a car, hybrid or not. :-)

    There have been some diesel-electric prototypes, but I wouldn’t bet against seeing a production diesel-electric car soon. It might come from Honda of all places. The limiting factor may be the bulk of diesel engines themselves.

    If Honda installs an electric motor, twice as powerful as that in the Civic Hybrid (30 HP @ 2500 to 4000 rpm, 75 lb.-ft @ 1000-2500 rpm), to go with its 2.2-liter CTD-I engine current used in European Accord (140 HP @ 4000 rpm, 245 lb.-ft @ 2000 rpm), the power train would deliver 170 HP / 310+ lb.-ft, while improving upon the mileage that the CTD-I already does (rated 52 mpg mixed driving in UK) and definitely improving emissions (smog/green house) with the added benefits of idle stop and regenerative braking etc.

    Sure, it would be possible to add displacement to the 2.2-liter engine to get that kind of power, but in the process, emissions will go up, and mileage will go down. And then, another aspect that electric power brings is replacing the current mechanical AWD system (while adding power). That’s an area I want to see hybrids touch in a big way.

    Lotus had plans of creating a sports car using diesel-electric hybrid power train, not sure if they are going with it or not.
  • akjbmwakjbmw Posts: 231
    Next time you go to the airport, look closely at the tractors that move the planes around.
    Just need a battery bank to store the kinetic energy when you have to stop faster than coasting gradually.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,690
    I found this an interesting bit of hybrid information. GM has already delivered diesel hybrid buses to transit systems.

    "Consumer-based tax credits will play a critical role in gaining market acceptance by making these technologies more affordable."

    This is to offset the thousands of dollars more per vehicle cost for consumer vehicles.

    What are the tax credits now on the hybrids?

    http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/adv_tech/300_hybrids/hyb_time- - line.html
  • The Seattle Hybrid buses were very expensive, at $600,000 a pop, vs 200,000 plus change for the regular non-hybrid diesel buses. they had all kinds of subsidies from the govt,

    Seattle hopes they will save 700,000 gallons of diesel fuel a year. (a fleet of 250 buses, if i remember right)

    This is still to be seen, but it is true that the most efficient hybrids are diesel-electrics. And not just buses, cars and light trucks.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,690
    That is a chunk of change. It looks like you and I will subsidize the clean air in Kent WA. I wonder what the difference in cost and efficiency between the hybrid diesel bus and the CNG/LNG. I think that is what the buses in San Diego use.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Were subsizing the current hybrids with tax deductions, also the current large SUV's.
  • rfruthrfruth Posts: 630
    Wow Chrysler is going to crank out 100 of them - snip - Consumers looking for hybrid pickups at dealerships selling Chrysler group or General Motors brands will have a hard time finding them. Dodge will build just 100 diesel-electric 2005 Ram pickups. The division will sell them to fleet customers such as utility companies. None will be available to consumers this year or next - and the trucks may never be available to the general public, says Frank Klegon, Chrysler group's vice president of product development process and components.
    http://tinyurl.com/3f7sa
  • amazonamazon Posts: 293
    A diesel engine ususlly performs very well in highway driving (constant RPM), whereas the electric hybrid solution helps in stop and go driving. These two could complement each other very nicely.
  • "A diesel engine ususlly performs very well in highway driving (constant RPM), "

    So can a gas engine with different(Atkinson) cycle. Diesel engines are heavier and more expensive than gas engines. Stop/restart of diesel engine during stop-and-idle-and-go traffic would be difficult due to the heavy engine and the lack of spark plug.

    For those reasons, Atkinson cycle gas engine makes more economical and engineering sense. Diesel would be a very good choice thought, just not the best choice.

    Dennis
  • amazonamazon Posts: 293
    The only thing is that the Diesel is tried and true, whereas the Atkinson is not.
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