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The Future of Hybrid Technology



  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Either of these incentive increases, should they occur, would throw gas on the fire of interest in Hybrid vehicles:

    "Kerry is offering to raise the hybrids' tax credit to $5,000, and he would give $10 billion over four years in tax breaks to U.S. automakers to help them retool factories for cars and trucks that get high fuel efficiency.
    Bush says he would raise the hybrid credit to $4,000, although no such action was taken in a large tax bill he signed Friday, and the credit is scheduled to be phased out by 2007. Bush would not give tax breaks directly to the auto firms for switching to hybrid production."
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Upcoming and current Hybrids:

    "Steaming into the future"
    Chronology of hybrid vehicle production:

    -- Honda: Insight hatchback -- 1999
    -- Toyota: Prius sedan* -- 2000
    -- Honda: Civic sedan -- 2002
    -- General Motors/Allison: city bus** -- 2003
    -- Ford: Escape SUV -- Sept. 2004
    -- Chevrolet: Silverado pickup -- Oct. 2004
    -- GMC: Sierra pickup -- Oct. 2004
    -- Honda: Accord sedan -- Dec. 2004
    -- Toyota/Lexus: RX400h SUV -- early 2005
    -- Toyota: Highlander SUV -- early 2005
    -- Saturn: VUE crossover SUV -- 2006
    -- Nissan: Altima sedan -- 2006
    -- Chevrolet: Malibu sedan -- 2006
    -- Mercury: Mariner SUV -- 2007
    -- Chevrolet: Tahoe SUV -- 2007
    -- GMC: Yukon SUV -- 2007
    -- Ford: Fusion sedan -- 2007
    * substantially revised in 2004
    ** diesel-electric hybrid.
    Sources: Booz Allen Hamilton, Chronicle research
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    Kerry is offering to raise the hybrids' tax credit to $5,000. Bush says he would raise the hybrid credit to $4,000...

    Correction: they are tax deductions from what I read, rather than a tax credit. And the latest bill signed left the $2,000 tax deduction in place for another year. I believe it will go to $500 in 2006. This is the last big corporate giveaway (see link) that went for nothing. NO incentives are needed. Set the standards for emissions and let the automakers figure it out.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Yes, technically it's a deduction not a credit. But the point is to encourage people THROUGH THEIR WALLET to driver cleaner cars. Nothing wrong with that strategy.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    the point is to encourage people THROUGH THEIR WALLET to driver cleaner cars.

    I agree. I think a tax credits for energy saving cars is a better way to encourage energy conservation, than giving out more corporate welfare.
  • rfruthrfruth Posts: 630
    Back the truck up, Kerry would give tax breaks to auto manufactures but Bush wouldn't, next thing you know intelligent young ladies parading around in bathing suites won't have a TV outlet - thanks for posting the hybrid chronology list !
  • "Look out here come the new clean, mean, almost green low sulpher diesels!"

    Clean? Not clean enough for US emission standard. LSD turbo diesel might need to add hybrid option to reach legal emission standard.

    "What is it they don't get you ask? Performance If you focus only on "green" you lose. If you focus only on "high economy" you lose."

    RX400H completely disagree with you. If you are waiting for the perfect hybrid that suit your taste, you are going to have to do more of the same; wait longer. Please, don't "sour grape" to those buyers that suit for Prius taste. BTW, I am in the same boat as you.

  • "0-60 mph time is a standard metric to measure performance."


    "all other Toyotas except the Corolla 4 cylinder auto and almost all SUVs and Trucks can out accelrate the Prius."

    In your standard metric of measurment? Prius is faster than 4-cyl Camry auto in 30-50mph. Release that tunnel vision.

    "Let's face it the Prius is slow! slow!"

    That depends on where you live. In Europe, 0-60 in 11 sec is above average performance. What is your defination of slow? slow=not fast?

  • "Only reason is FUD and high gas prices"

    People buy hybrids because they fear, uncertain and doubful? LOL. 04' Prius sale took off with waiting list before the gas prices went up.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    That depends on where you live. In Europe, 0-60 in 11 sec is above average performance. What is your defination of slow? slow=not fast?

    The Europeans drive a lot faster than we do. I don't think the Prius will cut the grade over there, where they expect a car to run at 125 mph on the highway. And every test I see from the UK lists the 0-60 or 0-62 times. It is rare to see a car slower than 10 seconds.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    04' Prius sale took off with waiting list before the gas prices went up.

    The Prius sales took off after certain Hollywood types like DiCaprio drove them to big events. I imagine they were given to them as a PR gimmick and it worked.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    If you think Hollywood glory sold the Prius I have a bridge to sell you too! LOL
  • More than adequate is a reasonable term that can apply to the PRIUS as to performance. I've demo'd the car (I own) to others with overwelling smiles that indicate satisfaction. Gas has shot up again and its a strange thing to "smile" as it escalates toward $3.00 a gal. After a 3 month wait to get this amazing car, I have to tell you that it fullfills near perfection. It also has become an every day conversation piece. MOTOR TREND awarded the PRIUS with "car of the year"..not to be taken lightly. Oh yes, another smile beams when we see it on T.V. on various shows.
    Culliganman (hi -railer)
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Actually saw a Prius on Cold Case the other night. Enjoy you car! You made a wise decision. IGNORE the naysayers.
  • RailroadJames said:

    "Getting back to the PRIUS. Just remember what you like best in a car and see if the Prius delivers. "

    Therein lies my problem. The feature I like best in a car above all others is: "Manual Transmission"

    Therein lies the rub, I think the Prius is outstanding otherwise. I could learn to live with the slow acceleration , non-leather, non-power seats, average JBL radio sound and the tepid handling. but I can not and will not live without a MANUAL SHIFT car.

    I noticed today on the radio, that Toyota is trying to spur up the sales on their most popular car the Corolla by upping the rebate on new 2005 models to $1,000 for ALL Corolla including the XRS performance version. By the way the Corolla offers a 5-speed manual shift in the CE,SE, LE models and a 6-speed in the XRS model.

    YMMV, cognitive dissonance : want both performance and high mpg

  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    quote-"YMMV, cognitive dissonance : want both performance and high mpg"-end quote

    Alas, me matey, I fears you ask too much of the Laws of Physics and 2004 Technology !!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    Alas, me matey, I fears you ask too much of the Laws of Physics and 2004 Technology !!

    That is a sad state of affairs. I remember in the mid 1980s the Honda CRX that performed great and got great mileage. Too bad we have fallen so far behind in the last 20 years.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Yes the CRX is quite an amazing car. Just can't compete with today's SAFER cars. Cars have made WONDERFUL strides since the early 80's. Not sure what you are referring to.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    I was referring to performance and mileage. I am not one that believes all the crumple zones and airbags make us safer drivers. I think a false sense of security is a dangerous feeling. Especially when it comes to cars. According to the Insurance Institute (IIHS) I am safer in my Suburban than my LS400 Lexus, and safer in the Lexus than my Mazda 626. Mainly because the bigger car stands a better chance in a collision with a smaller car. So I guess I am not sure what you are referring to when you say we have made WONDERFUL strides. I was safer in my Dad's 1949 Packard than someone in a 2005 Prius. The only strides I see are the burgeoning prices of cars.
  • Yes I am pushing the assymptotic limit of physics :)

    My My how our perceptions change. I remember the Mustang High Performance with a 271Hp 289 cu in V8. It only had a time of 0-60 of 7.5 seconds. But in the mid-sixties it was wickedly fast.

    Yes, I too had a CRX in 1985. If fact I had two within a year. I started with a HF, then repalced it with the 1.5 Liter 91 horsepoer SI. It was fast , fun and sporty and I believe was rated at 32/36 anyway I got over 30 mpg all the time. Now the reality check, the 0-60 mph time was 8.5 seconds. That is pretty slow today about equal to the average v6 auto sedan performance. unless you measure in PPUs. But back in the mid 80s to late 80s it seemed fast and fun.

    PPUs (Prius Performance Units, the new standard of green performance). One PPU is 0-60 in 10.5 seconds The way PPU is measured is by dividing the evaluated car's 0-60 MPH time by the Prius standard) For example in PPUs the following are some examples:

    Walking slow 3 miles per hour 1/4 mile in 5 minutes (300 seconds) 300/10.5 = 28.6
    Jetta TDI auto (14 seconds) = (14/10.5) =1.333
    Prius= (10.5/10.5) 1.0
    CRX si= (8.5/10.5)= .81 average car today
    HAH (6.0/10.5)= .57
    Corvette (4.5/10.5)= .43
    SOL ~= 0

    So if you are greater than 1 then bad ,bad performance, .81 about noraml for sedans/coupes, .57 perfromance and .43 and less exotics.

    YMMV, "It's all an illusion, done with smoke and mirrors"

This discussion has been closed.