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Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars

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  • tedebeartedebear Posts: 832
    Hey i actually found a crazy guide that shows you how to burn hydrogen in your engine

    Stick to eBay. Spamming isn't permitted on here.
  • Ok as far as monkey with your intake system H factors hydrogen is injected a head of the mass airflow sensor so no we don't monkey with the intake system. Will you save gas? - YES. Anytime you make a motor more efficient and it's use of fuel that efficiency transfers to more miles per gallon. As far as the energy it takes to start the process, which is amps, the h factor draws less than it takes to turn on your brake lights. Visit the web site and checkout the videos. :)link title
  • Winter? Aren't we talking about keeping a glass jar of water in the engine compartment? Wouldn't that explode when the water freezes (and thus, expands?) Or can this only be done in warm climates, or is there a heater to be put in the engine compartment that somehow does not require any energy to run? OR, is there some sort of anti-freezing agent that can be added to the water, such as ethanol (which would, of course, change the chemical compound in the jar) Hmmm, there's a great deal to think about here.

    The bottom line is this - if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. Also, if this amazing product which can help triple gas mileage can be yours for only $50, $150, or $299 (as I have seen advertised), why won't a dealer install this for you and charge you $500 for it? Or better yet, a manufacturer can install it and charge $1000! Who would argue for three times the mileage? The only reason can logically be that it does not work - at least, not yet.
    :sick:
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,534
    "Anytime you make a motor more efficient and it's use of fuel that efficiency transfers to more miles per gallon. As far as the energy it takes to start the process, which is amps, the h factor draws less than it takes to turn on your brake lights. "

    Sorry, no free lunch. Any power you take from the engine to make hydrogen can only be returned by burning the hydrogen. You aren't making the engine more efficient, you're just putting another load on it, and using that power to make hydrogen. When you burn the hydrogen in the engine, you only get 20% of the energy released as mechanical energy. The other 80% is lost as heat energy, either out the radiator or out the exhaust pipe. A scam, pure and simple.
  • pyteljapytelja Posts: 1
    This water4sas crap aside. When is this country actually going to start seeing hydrogen cars for the consumer. I read a really good commentary at www.gaspriceshurt.com about a group out in Scandinavia that will have a fulling functioning Hydrogen highway by 2012. The best part is the hydrogen stations are completely self-contained and produce the hydrogen onsite from the municipal water supply. I mean are you going to tell me Scandinavia can produce this technology but the U.S. can't.

    I'd like to see hydrogen cars a reality, not just some PR stunt with city buses and taxis.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Again though there is a cost to make the Hydrogen. No free lunch as above.

    -mike
  • teepsteeps Posts: 2
    I have found reading this forum to be very interesting. Before I go any further let me state that Hydrogen cells DO WORK, and I personally know people installing them, people using them, and people get around 30 mpg out of their V8 engines. Now, the real truth is that they are not a simple unit to install. That I know of there is only one unit on the market thar works. Yes you can build your own Hydrogen cell, but it WILL NOT work. Why? Because the ECM will not change the amount of gasoline being dumped into your engine. The only way to make your car get amazing gas mileage is to tune the computer to run the cell, and this is a very difficult process, usually involving multiple tunings to work. The only way to really pull tis off effectively is to have another computer installed that in essense lies to the ECM, telling it what it needs to hear to not trip any codes, and also to not make changes to he amount of fuel being dumped into the engine. If you can't understand what I'm saying with all of this, it means you don't understand the complexity of your car's computer.
    Now, to answer some of the questions, and statements generated on this forum let me start with the man who claims your alternator can't run a hydrogen cell. He is right, UNLESS you tune the engine. This involves tuning the fan not to run, and thus pulling the energy that the motor would use to run the fan to run the cell. It WILL NOT hurt your car, and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about. So long as you have a functioning radiator this poses no threat.

    Next, to the man who says anytime you cause your car to run better gas mileage improved let me assure you this is hardly the case. Again, it's te computer that determines gas mileage, not the cleanliness of your engine. The computer is set to run on a 14-1 air to gas particles. Now, the HHO gas helps substantially in vaporizing the fuel to make it more burnable, but the whole idea is to use LESS fuel. so if your fuel is super efficient but you're still burning 14-1, it's as though you've not done anything. This is why your homemade ghetto HHO cells will not work. You have to tell the computer to dump less fuel into the motor, and the only way to do tis is to tune every damn sensor on the vehicle, a very hard endeavor. There s only one company as of today that has the computer to go with the cell and it is called the Hyro-Assist Fuel Cell. It is also $2000 installed. If you ask me, worth every penny. They have Accords and Civics getting well into the 80+ mpg range, and lke I said V8's getting in the 30's. The installation is hard. but a $2000 investment that pays for itself in a year is the best investment I know of. Google it, the Hydro-Assist Fuel Cell. I'll let you know how mine goes when I get finished installing it on my '94 Nissan Pathfinder
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,534
    Hmmm...where to begin...so much BS, so little time....good job at concealing your advertisement, by the way.

    Actually, putting hydrogen right into your intake will work, because the O2 sensors will pick up that some of the oxygen's been burned to make H2O, and it'll cut back on the amount of gasoline to the injectors, so the energy is not all lost. You only get about 20% of it back though, that's the efficiency of an internal combustion engine, sorry. As for "tuning the fan not to run", that's a riot. Goodbye warranty, goodbye engine! Even if you do this, it doesn't free up any energy, you're still pulling energy from the engine to split the water. As for "it's te computer that determines gas mileage, not the cleanliness of your engine." the computer optimizes the operation of the engine - if it was a simple matter to readjust the computer to improve mileage, the automakers would have flipped that switch when gas prices passed $2/gallon.

    Good luck with your scam!
  • teepsteeps Posts: 2
    It's your loss bro. The product works, not your ghetto products, and it's warrantied to increase your fuel by 50%. You don't know what you're talking about. Here's the link.. Maybe now you can get a clue. Good luck with your ignorance.. http://www.energyempire.com/hafc.html
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,534
    "Maybe now you can get a clue. Good luck with your ignorance"

    I'm so ashamed. :cry:
  • tedebeartedebear Posts: 832
    Wow, he went from subtly including the name of his company and suggesting doing a Google search in his original post to a direct link right to it. :surprise:

    What''s the song by Queen..."Another One Bites the Dust".
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,534
    Transparent as can be. My problem - going chapter and verse on him will only improve his future posts/ads/whatever. Friend just heard a 'news' story selling this while driving to work today - hate to think of all the money going down the drain :lemon:

    p.s. - to summarize his, and all preceding posts selling this nonsense, I paraphrase Tom and Ray: "Complex engine modifications, unencumbered by science." :P
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I guess Nitrous doesn't work either... :)

    -mike
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "I guess Nitrous doesn't work either... "

    Ah, the good 'ole nitrous injection. A car thus equipped will pass anything on the road ... except a gas station!
  • jreinajreina Posts: 1
    Get My Free Guide of Top Hydrogen Fuel Cell Reviews.

    http://www.hydrogenfuelreviews.wordpress.com
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,534
    "Get My Free Guide of Top Hydrogen Fuel Cell Reviews."

    Kinda like those commercials for the real phone psychics :surprise:
  • You know something,,,thats right, you know nothing,,actually most of you people with these backyard mechanics puting together garbage units that do little, overheat, and look like crap and scaring all the real people who have hopes for this hydogen thing. You guys, and you know who you are, are just trying to make a buck n the false hopes of people who need this. There is ONLY ONE true COMPLETE system on the market ( actually going on the market ) and has NEW patents, so watch out you copy cats, and I have seen it and it has all the angles covered. and the cost is reasonable. AND DOES WORK more than good. The company is located in Ontario Canada. I have seen EVERY thing to do with cells, how to make, what to adjust, and all the BS from quick make web sites selling plans and home made generators ( if thats what you want to call them ) PLEASE , PLEASE , PLEASE. stop it everyone because ignorance is no excuse. SOme make a small difference, yes its true, but still not the gains that are reported and I KNOW. so shovel the BS somewhere else. The Complete system I saw was incredable, was all intact, Self efficient, meaning there was nothing to play with or watch over, and truely pulled 35-55% numbers on all kinds of cars. He has people from GM looking at it now....so don't bark about the crap out there please, all meaningless, really people....
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,534
    Here we go again. I guess this guy is the "real" phone psychic. What a load...
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,859
    Let's keep this about hydrogen fuel cell cars and not veer off into who's selling snake oil.

    Suffice it to say that there have always been folks trying to sell you something that's too good to be true.

    And as a reminder, the forums cannot be used to buy, sell, or promote products. I know the line is fuzzy when it comes to discussing things that are out there, but endeavor to stay on this side of that line. Thanks!

    If you want to discuss this kind of stuff live, just stop in to one of our weekly chats! Tonight is a chat night. just follow the link you'll find in the right sidebar--->

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? pf_flyer@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
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  • tedebeartedebear Posts: 832
    Let's keep this about hydrogen fuel cell cars and not veer off into who's selling snake oil.

    So, where do you draw the line - when this guy comes back on tomorrow and posts the name of his product and link to his website?

    I wonder how many names he has created on here anyway?
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,534
    Here's another question for pf - all of these hydrogen generation schemes aren't 'hydrogen fuel cells' anyway. A hydrogen fuel cell is a device that takes in hydrogen and oxygen, generates electricity, and discharges water. All these other things would fit better under 'gas saving gizmos and gadgets'.
  • No need to advertise anything, ok..lets call it a gismo, well all the gismos out there are crap and do very little, right!,,right. We all know this. BUT,,everything from more power to run then it generates, and engine computer configurations and this can't do that because that does this. ALL meaningless., because all those so called engineers and mathematicians and guys who know the periodic table upside down have come to the conclusion that it doesn't work well in an automobile because the power put in is more than whats put out, and the gas made is corrosive or too hot or just can't work. IT ALL WRONG PEOPLE..and I sit here and have to laugh because I am sorry to say and hate to offend but I must when I see people arguing and saying stupid theories and knocking it because most of you do not have a clue. You can have 20 years University or be a professor and you still have it wrong,,all that talent and money for school, what a waste.

    But without giving anything away...threr is a way, it does work, and it being used today. You guys are looking at it all wrong, Stop following other people and what they say and theories because that is what the problem is. Some of you are bright, FIGURE IT OUT, it under your nose,

    Post more comedy please.
    actually this forum has sparked some interest in how you all think. Its comical
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    P.T. Barnum. "There's a sucker born every minute".

    TANSTAAFL. Look it up, it applies to physics, and MPG improvements.
  • brian76brian76 Posts: 39
    just read in my local paper last night ..a local guy says he got all the info he could from internet about hydrogen fuel cell conversion .Built a little cell for about 5o bucks installed on his old pickup ( I think something like an 86 datsun). Says he was getting 21mpg- now gets 31 mpg. He didn't say whether he bought a kit. Says he is a diesel mechanic. Anyway after reading through previous posts I see that some say the alternator will draw more energy than you can regain from the hydrogen injection. My question; (and don't beat me up too badly) my limited understanding of an alternator or generator on a car is that if the engine is at say 2-4000. RPM, unit is basically putting out full load all the time but the regulator determines how much is allowed to go out into the system according to the draw from radio, fan, window moters,etc. In other words.. does the engine really have to work harder to produce a little more electricity from the generator or alternator?
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,534
    "does the engine really have to work harder to produce a little more electricity from the generator or alternator? "

    Yes, it does. (all this applies to alternators, no cars past 1965 or so have generators). Think of it this way- if the alternator was putting out all that electrical power, it has to get used somewhere - for the car's electrical system, somewhere. Unless you have a toaster wired into your system, it isn't. Energy used by the hydrogen generators (don't call them fuel cells) is a direct load on the engine. If it's a little load, fine, but that means it's only making a little hydrogen, with even smaller effects. The other way to think of this - if it worked, there are 100 multi-billion $$ corporations that would be buying them. They aren't, for good reason.
  • These big multi million $ companies do not buy into these companies because they are all horse caca. They don't work,,,,I LOVE the site that sells a 50 dollar idea, and people actually believe that crap...the concept is right, but it don't work LOL....this guy must have made millions already off of cheap desperate people, poor saps. I should have done that. LOL.
    LOOK....I was telling you about this guy and NO its not ME......he truely has something developed here where I live. and this guy is being interviewed by television networks and all that. I think he said this system will only be installed for people, but not sold alone. He said to the TV people that he has figured out the flaws and problems with amprage and heat that make it viable to be installed into vehicles. AND he also mentioned that ALL the so called systems out there have the right idea but they will never work properly for any length of time and has warned viewers not to be fished into false hopes because he said you can't solve and fossil fuel problem with a 50 dollar idea,,,wake up!...LOL.....and I think I believe him you know....too many You Tube engeniers our there. I don't know if there aired this guy in the United States yet....but I don't think he really cares about the US anyways,,,,he blames world prices and fuel problems on the US ...he says that they put themselves where they are today and dragged the world with it. Actually as bad as it may sound,,,,I can understand the thinking there. If this thing actually works, It will push hydrogen power forward big time and then big companies will be scratching there heads, like Shell with all there billions couldn't do it cheap and easy and works....wouldn't that be something,LOL.....and some Canadian guy did.....that would be great I think....Chalk another one up for the Canadians...LOL....IF its true ....but i'm going to look into this for sure...
  • brian76brian76 Posts: 39
    "Think of it this way- if the alternator was putting out all that electrical power, it has to get used somewhere"

    Okay. I referred to generators not because they are still in use but because they illustrate more clearly what I was saying. For instance: in the old days with a generator in your car the regulator determined, according to what draw was being required,how much juice to 'dole out' so to speak. So if the engine was running but no accesories were on ( lights, horn, radio, etc.) the generator was developing a fixed amount of electricity which was being held back or 'floating ' on a line. As acessories were turned on, the regulator dispersed more current to the respective accessories. So, if a fuel generator ,as you call it, doesn't require too much juice why couldn't it use some of that elec. to operate assuming you weren't driving with every other accessory turned on? Of course there is a limit to how much juice is available but these fuel genertors may not need too much juice to operate.I'm not debating how much energy it takes to operate a fuel generator here. that's another issue. My point is; while the generator is turning at full speed it can produce more than enough elec. w/out loading the engine more than is required to run your lights. I can't see that driving with your lights on uses any more fuel than with them off. Granted I am not an elec. wixard but how far off am I?
  • brian76brian76 Posts: 39
    Just fyi the newspaper article I referred to was on the front page of my local paper a day or two ago. you might look at it online under The Daily Astorian (in Oregon) tell me what you think
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,534
    "I can't see that driving with your lights on uses any more fuel than with them off"

    Actually it does. In the pre-computer controlled idle speed days, if you were at idle and turned on the lights and fan, the engine rpms would drop because of the added load. No free electricity, sorry.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "IF its true ....but i'm going to look into this for sure... "

    Man, talk is REALLY cheap. I for one would appreciate it if you stopped promoting this stuff, bought the "system" you are proclaiming, then submitted your data to Road & Track, Edmunds, or CR for independent testing.

    When I see some independently verified data, I will consider the concept. Until then, I consider this propaganda as a means to make some $$ on vulnerable people by selling them snake oil.
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