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Land Rover LR3

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  • grommetgrommet Posts: 445
    It's possible there are slight differences between US and UK V8 engines... but it's probably just a conversion thing:

    The UK Discovery 3 V8 is rated at 220 kw, which is ~295 bhp SAE. 220 kw is also ~300 bhp DIN, which matches the US marketing.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Where did you get that figure?

    If that's correct, that works out to a mere $26,000 per vehicle based upon 50,000 units. And for that, I'm not even getting a new engine?? Needless to say, I'm highly skeptical. The LR3 isn't exactly a new joint strike fighter by Lockheed Martin.

    For what it's worth, the Honda S2000 was cited in a report I read a couple of years ago as the vehicle with the most ground up, new technology and innovative engineering of any Japanese vehicle at the time. I forgot what the R&D costs were, but it wan't something with a "b" in the number, that's for sure. Had the S2000 cost $1.3 billion to develop, the price per the first 4 years of limited production (25,000 vehicles) would have been $52,000. It sells for $32,000.

    If Ford spent $1.3 billion on R&D for it's entire lineup, I'd be surprised. I'd also make sure none of my mutual funds had Ford stock in them. But please, quote me a source if I'm wrong.
  • grommetgrommet Posts: 445
    Forbes reported that the new T5 platform that the LR3 uses (and the next few vehicles, like the Range Sport will, too) supposedly cost $1 billion (US) to develop. The engine modifications for the Jaguar engine design supposedly cost $13 million (US).

    Anyway, these numbers are a bit silly to discuss. We don't know how they were calculated and, quite honestly, why does it matter?
  • ypshanypshan Posts: 103
    blckislandguy,

    Thanks for pointing out my miss.

    The power to weight ratio does make a difference. I have an X5 4.4i that I wanted to replace. It's got 282hp but weighs only 4828lb. I drove it and the LR3 back to back. The BMW is A LOT more responsive even though it has only a 5-speed tranny.

    From the engine development stand point, it's not bad to borrow an engine as long as it's a good proven one. There is nothing wrong to keep the cost down.
  • ypshanypshan Posts: 103
    Apparently Land Rover de-contented the LR3 on the Bluetooth integration with the Navigation system comparing to Range Rover.

    Instead of the large color Nav display, LR3 owners would have to use the small LCD radio display.

    More info can be found:
    http://lrchroniclepub.proboards29.com/index.cgi?board=land22&- num=1096054593&action=display&start=0

    If you are knowledgeable about the MOST data bus that are used, could you comment on whether it's possible to software enable the NAV system back into the game?
  • I currently own a 2003 GX470. Like the vehicle except I have three kids and the 3rd row is almost useless when you factor in a stroller. Everything else has been great. Considered the XC90 and almost leased a 2005 2.5T last weekend. As I was walking through the parking lot at Disney World tonight, I saw an XC90. IMHO, it does not evoke the same feeling when looking at Lexus or a Land Rover product.

    Has everyone been paying MSRP or are they dealing already? I know where I live Nashville, TN they plan to sell at MSRP for a long time. Just curious as I consider a LR3. Need new tires on GX and don't want to shell out the $$ if I can get a good deal on an LR3 HSE.
  • ypshanypshan Posts: 103
    xchicagoan5,

    I am not sure how long they are going to be able to hold the MSRP. Infiniti QX56 was going for MSRP for 2-3 months then people started discounting it. And that truck was selling pretty well.

    With the gas price as it is today and with the competition being much more intense, I wouldn't be surprised to see LL discounting LR3 after the new year.

    By the way, I am struggling between the GX and LR3. Coming from the X5, both are softer rides.

    I am interested in your perspective comparing the GX with the LR3. GX appears to be a better value/luxury/logical choice while LR3 is newer to me.
  • grommetgrommet Posts: 445
    "Land Rover de-contented the LR3 on the Bluetooth integration with the Navigation system"

    I wouldn't say "decontented". It was a design choice. The LR3's Navigation Touchscreen is optional, so the controls for the forthcoming PTI/Bluetooh option were designed into the radio head unit.

    The '05 Range Rover doesn't even have a separate radio interface. The Touchscreen is integral to the design.

    I was hoping they'd at least have supplemental Touchscreen support if the LR3 was equipped with Navigation, but it wasn't meant to be.
  • ypshanypshan Posts: 103
    The HSE model has NAV standard instead of optional.
  • ypshanypshan Posts: 103
    USA Today review at the end shows their around town mileage:

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2004-11-04-lr3- _x.htm

    10.6 miles per gallon is worse than the 450hp Porsche Cayenne Turbo!!!
  • I like the LR3 because the third row has more flexibility in terms of storage and capacity. The GX seats fold up and out of the way which is a hassle. I have three kids and still need a stroller. You've gotta take one of the the seats out to get some flexibility. Even when doing so, it is still tough for my kids to get out with the stroller in the vehicle. There seems to be enough room behind the seats to get a small to medium size stroller in without compromising getting in and out of the vehicle.

    The LR3 V8 felt just as powerful and smooth as the GX V8. Also, the fit and finish seemed to be rather high. If you close the door on any Disco II or RR, there is a distinct "clunk" that comes from the door. When closing the LR3, this is not the case. It sounded and felt eerily close to the Lexus. Also, the availibility of 19" wheels is also a plus over the GX.

    The GX470 has been hands-down the best SUV I have ever owned over the following: X5 4.4i, Toyota 4Runner, Land Rover Disco and Jeep Grand Cherokee.

    The GX does offer the better value/luxury and reliability. The V8 is smooth as butter and comes on strong even though the HP numbers are low. Of course, few vehicles have the torque it has which is what really matters the most.

    For me, it comes down to greater flexibility (seats fold into floor) and the 6 speed tranny (5 speed in GX). I believe the gas mileage will be the same at the end of the day.

    I too am caught between keeping my GX470 and the new LR3. Also keep in mind that a sport package will be offered in December for the GX470. It will have 18" wheels, special trim and an upgraded engine with a VVT. This should improve already decent gas mileage in a V8.

    I am going to wait to see what the sport GX470 looks and rides like. At the time I bought my GX I wasn't supposed to get a discount. I called the largest Lexus dealer in the world and got their best deal. I then called my local dealer and said I will buy from you for $500 more than other Lexus dealer. They matched it. If I like it, I will use the same tactic again.

    If not, I will be hoping that LR3 sales are flat at the end of December so I can get a good deal. I have to put new tires on my GX and don't want to if I am going to trade it.

    Hope this helps.
  • grommetgrommet Posts: 445
    "The HSE model has NAV standard instead of optional." Correct. But it's still "optional" on the vehicle design, unlike the 2005 Range Rover -- not every LR3/Disco 3 has it. (No other features depend on it existing.)

    I've seen 14-15 MPG (not computer based calculation: pump based math) mixed use on LR3 without aggressive test driving. It'll get worse with a full load, of course.
  • Ypshan: You're right: the X5 has a firmer, almost jiggly ride compared to the LR3. We test drove a 2002 X5 with the optional sports suspension and 18" wheels and it wasn't fun on Northeast roads.

    Xchigoan5: With wheels, big is not necessarily better. Not only will 19" wheels introduce much more road noise into the cabin, where are you going to find true winter tires (e.g., Blizzaks) to fit the wheels? Sure, you can still get around but without Blizzaks or Artic Alpins you aren't going to stop very well.
  • ypshanypshan Posts: 103
    I tried both the sports and non-sports package and ended up buying the non-sports. The sports package is for on race track performance. Not good at all for everyday driving.

    The non-sports X5 4.4i that I currently own feels a bit firmer than LR3 and corners flatter.
  • ypshanypshan Posts: 103
    http://motortrend.com/oftheyear/suv/112_05_suvoftheyearwinner/ind- ex4.html

    0-60 was 8.7 sec. This feels about right comparing to the X5's acceleration.

    Interesting comparing to last year's winner VW Touareg.

    http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/suv/112_04_suvoy_winner/index- 4.html

    Though both had electronic stability systems on, VW appear to handle a lot better on-road. LR3 did beat VW in braking by 2 ft.
  • Good point about the 19" tires introducing road noise into the cabin. Also, I am not looking for the firmest ride, but not the softest either. On the GX, you can change the setting from Comfort to Sport. There is a noticeable difference between the two setting.

    As far as snow tires, I live in the south. It snows rarely. The big thing to worry about is ice. Blizzak or Artic Alpins won't help on black ice - no matter what.
  • grommetgrommet Posts: 445
    This is the last update I have on LR3 kit prices (from 10/12/2004):

    Land Rover LR3 Vehicle Kit Price List
    Format is: Description, [Labor in Hours] and MSRP.

    - BODY SIDE MOULDING KIT [1.0] $232.00
    - FRONT MUD FLAP KIT [0.5] $164.00
    - REAR MUD FLAP KIT [0.5] $164.00
    - BRUSH BAR WRAPAROUND (BLACK/NON WINCH) [1.5] $701.00
    - BRUSH BAR WRAPAROUND (BLACK/FOR WINCH) [1.5] $701.00
    - FRONT PROTECTION BAR (A FRAME/NON WINCH) [1.5] $836.00
    - FRONT PROTECTION BAR (A FRAME/FOR WINCH) [1.5] $836.00
    - SIDE RAILS-BLACK SIDE TUBE [1.5] $876.00
    - SIDE RAILS-STAINLESS SIDE TUBE [1.5] $974.00
    - SIDE STEPS [1.5] $876.00
    - WIND DEFLECTOR KIT-FRONT & REAR [0.5] $247.00
    - FASCIA KIT TRIM-BURR WALNUT [1.0] $820.00
    - SILL KIT TREAD PLATE [1.0] $362.00
    - SLIDING LOADSPACE FLOOR [0.5] $944.00
    - 2ND ROW SEAT COVERS/5 SEATER [0.5] $318.00
    - 2ND ROW SEAT COVERS/7 SEATER [0.5] $449.00
    - DOG GUARD [1.0] $404.00
    - DOG GUARD DIVIDER [0.5] $329.00
    - BLACK NON-SKID MATS [0] $171.00
    - FULL RUBBER MATS [0] $158.00
    - FULL RUBBER MATS-3RD ROW [0] $53.00
    - BLACK CARPET MATS [0] $171.00
    - BEIGE CARPET MATS [0] $TBA
    - RIGID LOADSPACE MAT [0] $231.00
    - RUBBER HALF LOADSPACE MAT [0] $158.00
    - ROOF CROSS BAR KIT [0.5] $264.00
    - TENT SHELTER [0.5] $823.00
    - TOW HITCH RECEIVER (QUICK RELEASE) [0.5] $552.00
    - TOWING ELECTRIC KIT [1.5] $314.00
    - DRIVING LIGHT KIT [1.0] $738.00
    - WINCH [TBA] $TBA
    - REAR DVD SYSTEM [TBA] $TBA
    - EXPEDITION ROOF RACK [TBA] $TBA
    - REAR LAMP GUARDS [TBA] $TBA
    - FRONT LAMP GUARDS [TBA] $TBA
    - BLACK WATER-PROOF SEAT COVERS (FRONT ROW) [0] $TBA

    Prices subject to change without notice. Prices include labor if applicable.
    TBA = To Be Announced
  • Just have spent a week in my new LR3. It’s a HSE with all options and Java black with Alpaca. I’m a previous Disco II owner. I love the LR3! The navigation and terrain response system is awesome. You can lower the LR3 for access or raise it to impress the neighbors. The design and thought put into the LR3 is extensive, BMW/Porsche level. The third row seat system and the glass roof are pretty cool according to the kids in the neighborhood.

    I also have “Hand off” audio controls for the navigation and radio that my six year old thinks is a blast. You say “Navigation, I’m hungry” and restaurants pop up on the display. Say “casino” and you're off to Vegas. Some observations: It has a fantastic stereo and even the third row passengers get equal time! The LR3 gets better mileage than “10.6”. You need to reset the computer to get the accurate MPG, more like 13-15, less with sport mode. Also it hauls in sport mode or use the manual shifting to scare the wife. The engine is great and full of torque. Brakes are BMW like, very reassuring! I have a XJ8 and a 03 Porsche 911 C-4, so I have some expertise in the matter. Head turning quotient is very high (especially to Cayenne and Lexus owners) and overall quality is excellent. 19” wheels look great and are silent running. Wife loves the split rear door. Problems: No wood interior similar to other competitors. Paying list to get the first on the block. The lines in the heated windshield may interfere with my Valentine One and bother me at night. No floor matts available yet.

    Glad I bought it and I’m now accessorizing the beast. Off roading this weekend.
  • ypshanypshan Posts: 103
    Thanks for the report.

    I also have a Valentine One and love it. It would be a shame if it doesn't work. Please keep us posted.

    I also have a Porsche and need a tow vehicle to tow it to and from the track. Do you tow yours? Did you have to buy extra accessories?

    - TOW HITCH RECEIVER (QUICK RELEASE) [0.5] $552.00
    - TOWING ELECTRIC KIT [1.5] $314.00
  • grommetgrommet Posts: 445
    If it does conflict with radar detectors, or you simply don't like the "lines in the windshield"... you could not order the Cold Climate Package. It's optional in the US on all configurations. You'll lose the two-level Heated Seats, Heated Windshield & Heated Windshield Washer Jets... but you'll also have $1050 extra in your pocket.
  • Ypshan: Is the sport suspension equally stiff/unpleasant on the 3.0 or just the V8 series?

    Gromett: Thanks for the price list. Some were a bit much: The fascia kit for 8 bucks (check the ads in the back of Car and Driver after Chrismas for far cheaper alternatives) and the SAAB pioneered sliding load tray for 9 bucks caught my eye. Incidentally, I wonder how well that tray is going to work with the asymetrical tail gate. It would seem that you couldn't extend it out too far over the edge to say load a 200 pound mushroom for a mooring on to it.

    LR3Dude, congrats on the report. Keep us posted.
  • norbnnorbn Posts: 70
    I test drove the LR3, its nice but doesn't have the "character" that the Disco had. The one thing I didn't like, and its minor, is the speedo is really really small and its was hard to see how fast you were going. I don't know if I'll get one, my lease on my Disco isn't over till next year, hopefully they'll come down in price by then.
  • My wife and I recently test drove and then purchased a 2005 LR3 SE with all the options - total MSRP was $53,295. Traded in an Infinity FX35.

    We looked at several other SUV's and all I can say is drive them back to back - we did'nt think anything else had the same combination of on street ride and handling and off-road performance.

    The LR3 has a fantastic street ride, good performance from the V8, nice streering, not too lite and can cruise at 85 all day long. As for reliability, I am hopefull, but I did note that Land Rover did extensive testing of this model and it does use a lot of proven components (engine, transmission, Nav system are all from Jaguar re-do of XJ8 in 2004).

    We went back to the Land Rover dealer and I got to drive our new LR3 on the off-road test track. I have never driven off-road before and the LR3 made it so easy! Even the instructor who has a Disco II was very impressed with how well it did! I was told a lot of other vehicles (like the BMW X-5, Volvo XC-90) will not make it around the off-road track - the dealership owns almost every car make dealership and they tried them all on the track.

    There are a lot of SUV's out there from all different manufacturers, but I think you would do yourself a disservice if you did not at least test drive the LR3 along with your other choices. We think you will be quite surprised.

    About the price - it isn't cheap, but you should buy what you want and like, not buy whatever car you think is the best deal - nothing is a deal if you really don't like it, no matter what the price.
  • davidc1davidc1 Posts: 168
    My local dealer now has over 40 LR3s in stock. I assume they are ready to deal sooner rather than later.
  • ypshanypshan Posts: 103
    blckislandguy,

    The X5 V8 non-sports feels similarly to the X5 3.0 sports. The V8 sports package is much stiffer than the 3.0 sports package.

    I sure hope the heated windshield does not conflict with the radar detector. What attracted us to the winter package is the heated rear seats which my son likes and GX 470 doesn't have. However, radar detector has got to work. Without the winter package, there goes another advantage that LR3 has against the GX.
  • ypshanypshan Posts: 103
    davidc1,

    Great info for the consumers. Which region are you in?
  • davidc1davidc1 Posts: 168
    I am in Northern New Jersey.
  • Davidc1,

    Your message IS very promising. I'm in NJ too, so what dealership you meant-Paramus?
  • davidc1davidc1 Posts: 168
    Yes. Their website listed 43 LR3s the last time I checked. They also have over 150 Discos. I suspect they'll discount them heavily.
  • Check out this link. It talks about the rigorous testing the LR3 was put through to insure quality from day 1.

    http://www.landroverusa.com/us/en/_popups/4%20Million%20Miles.htm

    Any thoughts? Do you think this will make the LR3 more reliable than the Disco II?
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