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The Great Hybrid Battery Debate

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Comments

  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    I don't lend much credence to eBay pricing. Let's face it, the just had a $28,000 cheese sandwich auctioned not too long ago (with the virgin mary's face).
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    That don't say much for all the Prius they have on there. None of them are worth as much as a cheese sandwich.....
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    All of these posts are "Prius Research" and have zip to do with batteries. Take it to another discussion (maybe the Prius?), but stop posting about it in here.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    OK,
    I don't know how that happens, it just does.
  • High mileage TDIs routinely sell for more than book. Due the way diesels work, a 99 TDI with 80K miles isn't much better than a 99 with 200K miles.
    In fact some would argue the 200K mile one is better because it's more likely to be highway miles.
    If it has proper maintenance records, I wouldn't hesitate 2 seconds before buying the 200K TDI at 4600.

    Hybrids can't even hope to achieve those lofty levels of resale. At best they can try to compete with similar gas cars. A HCH would do very well to achieve the resale percentages of normal Civics.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    I wouldn't touch a high mileage car like that. My friend has a diesel with high mileage and though it is reliable, it's VERY expensive to maintain.
  • wouldn't touch a high mileage car like that. My friend has a diesel with high mileage and though it is reliable, it's VERY expensive to maintain

    Would you rather own a high mileage gas car ?
    Some specific information about make and model and what kind of maintenance your friend does may help in this discussion.
  • rfruthrfruth Posts: 630
    I'd rather not have a high mileage anything cause with more miles (& years) you tend to have more problems, don't get me wrong I'm not made of money but after 7 or 8 years I like to sell mine and move on, the traction battery is one of those things I don't want to mess with, same for piston rings, valve jobs etc.
  • yerth10yerth10 Posts: 428
    If we charge a 100 KW battery for 1 hour, then
    100 KWH is stored in the battery.

    If we start drawing the power after a day, how
    much power will the battery yield.
    Will it be 100 KWH, 90 KWH or even lower.

    Any comment.
  • 99 kilowatt-hours.

    "Now you cannot get a straight answer as to what is covered under the mandated CA 150k mile warranty."

    The PZEV law requires that the car will pass emissions inspection for 10 years/150,000 miles. If it does not, Toyota/Honda must repair whatever is wrong. In most cases it will be a burned out catalyst, so they'll give you a new one. But it could also be bad spark plugs...or bad timing. Toyota/Honda must keep giving you free repairs until the car passes emissions.

    Hope that clears things up?

    Batteries:
    - I mentioned before that batteries, due to their hybrid cars barely using them, will easily last 200,000 miles.

    - But I also said 20 years. I've got Nicads that are 20 years old, and they are very, very weak. The chemicals & metals slowly break down over time.

    Troy
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    I mentioned before that batteries, due to their hybrid cars barely using them, will easily last 200,000 miles.

    I think many people will feel more at ease with that statement when it is a fact instead of speculation. Personally I think age will be more of a factor than mileage. Also if the batteries get cold and discharged. Maybe from leaving your Prius outside for a month while your in Florida.

    The battery issue is also having an affect on resale. The first 100k mile 2002 prius got sold on eBay in excellent condition for $9100. That was from a Toyota dealer. If that is a realistic price for a 2 year old Prius there are some people that are going to be unhappy at trade-in time. All I can imagine is there were worried about a car with an unknown longevity history. Not just batteries, catalytic convertors, on board computers, sensors the list in quite extensive.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    quote gagrice-"If that is a realistic price for a 2 year old Prius there are some people that are going to be unhappy at trade-in time."-end quote

    Must I "again" remind you sir: One E-Bay sale does not a Blue Book price affect.

    In this country, until further notice, car sales will be 99% of the time based on Blue Book value. Look at Edmund's TMV which is a REAL PRICE based on REAL SALES or REAL CARS in the real world.

    Just because one yahoo seller on E-Bay gets jobbed means nothing to the overall resale value of a line of cars.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    In this country, until further notice, car sales will be 99% of the time based on Blue Book value. Look at Edmund's TMV which is a REAL PRICE based on REAL SALES or REAL CARS in the real world.

    We have had this debate before. Some people believe in Santa Claus and others don't. I have never gotten or paid close to blue book on a used vehicle. It is a rough estimate at best. If a dealer in Washington DC took a 2 year old Prius in on trade and sold it on eBay for $9101. You can bet he did not give the customer that much for that car in trade. Unless he added a bunch to the price of the new Toyota. Maybe Rosner Toyota in Virginia is a Yahoo dealer. I have no reason to believe he is not just as legitimate as any other Toyota dealer. It just drives you crazy that these hybrids are losing value as fast as they are. You should know you beat the dealer down on the one you bought.

    You are avoiding the real issue here. I say the 100k miles and the unknown with the battery is what knocked the heck out of that car's value. Plus all the other electronic hybrid doodads that cost an arm and a leg to replace.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I see used Hybrids in the paper selling for what they should sell for, which in the case of HCH resales is about $500 more than an EX.

    And for Priuses (Gen 2) it's about MSRP or higher.

    I have no worries about my resale value, because I'm smart enough to sell WAY before 100K, hybrid or not.....because the VAST history of US car sales has shown that cars over 100K drop in value immensely.

    (we might better move this to the resale value forum before we get scolded)
  • rfruthrfruth Posts: 630
    I agree, anything with 100k or more miles loses value big time thus my philosophy of staying on the leading edge while trying to avoid the bleeding edge (things I would consider leading edge would include hybrids, flat panel monitors/TVs, on demand water heaters, blu-ray DVDs etc)
  • "I mentioned before that batteries, due to their hybrid cars barely using them, will easily last 200,000 miles.

    "I think many people will feel more at ease with that statement when it is a fact instead of speculation."

    Understanable, but there are a few Insights & Priuses out there with greater than or near to 200,000 miles. Their batteries were never replaced.

    .

    "Personally I think age will be more of a factor than mileage. "

    Yes. 20 years max is the lifetime I'd give them. Sitting out in the sun will slowly but surely dry the electrolytes until they no longer work.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    Yes. 20 years max is the lifetime I'd give them. Sitting out in the sun will slowly but surely dry the electrolytes until they no longer work.

    If you live in CA all they have to last is 10 years and Toyota, Ford & Honda are off the hook.
  • Just like engines. Most engines are only warranted 50,000 miles..... but they last much, much longer than that.
  • yerth10yerth10 Posts: 428
    Great Breakthrough in Battery technology.

     

    http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=788

    New type of battery Lithium-Sulphur doubles the Lithium-Ion range.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    SANYO, BOSCH TO JOINTLY DEVELOP HYBRID CAR BATTERIES

     

    TOKYO - Eyeing a forecasted 340 billion yen (US$3.3 billion) market for hybrid car batteries in 2010, Japanese giant Sanyo Electric Co. (TSE:6764 - News) will join forces with German autoparts maker Robert Bosch GmbH to develop rechargeable batteries for hybrid vehicles. By partnering with a parts manufacturer that deals with a wide range of firms, Sanyo Electric hopes to expand sales in the growing European market. To meet increased demand, Sanyo has more than tripled output capacity for hybrid car batteries at its Hyogo Prefecture plant from 300,000 to 1 million units per month. Sanyo has a 55% global market share in nickel metal hydride batteries, which are used by most hybrid cars.
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