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Audi A4 2005+

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  • skid0skid0 Posts: 16
    I had to join Edmunds to reply to Marks anti-auto (mostly) post.

    The A4 B7 is the *only* car I've ever driven (in 35 years) that had an auto I could live with. I liked it enough that I bought a 2006 w/tiptronic.

    What I hated about all the others was the lack of lockup, or the small throttle amounts that took the auto out of lockup. I hated that they all downshifted too soon with added throttle. That there was no instant acceleration when the throttle was pressed a bit more. That they all over-revved the engine before upshifting, at small throttle openings.

    The B7 is the first auto to shift like I do in a manual-it goes into lockup right away, then upshifts as low as 1800 rpm. This gives great mileage-up to 29.7 mp(US)g in combined city/mostly country 2-lane back-and-forth-to-work.

    If I want to, tiptronic mode lets me select the gear manually. The downshifts are quicker and smoother than I can usually manage (even double-clutching), and the TBW blips the rpm to match engine speed to road speed.

    The only criticism of tip mode is that upshifts take 1/2 second to initiate under some circumstances.

    I, too, dislike that D mode stays in second gear unless the car comes to a *complete* stop. In aggressive urban driving, that takes alot of accel away. But I know that Audi did that so all those 'average' drivers out there didn't get caught by the turbo coming on boost. Tip mode takes care of that, though.

    There's something like 1/3 second difference in 0-60 mph with stick, but I wonder if doing a 'brake stand' eliminates that. It sure lets the turbo build up boost, and the car launches away from stops quite hard.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,994
    I tried to "build my own" A4 2.0T on the Audi website. Which wheels are standard? Which wheels come with the Sport Package? Do you have to choose a specific color for the S-Line package?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • The 6spd tip in my 2005 A6 3.2 is the best auto I have ever driven and/or owned. It is still NOT quite up to the control, fun and performance of a 6spd manual.

    Yet, I find myself able to defend it a bit more easily every day. It is almost able to read my mind -- especially in S mode.

    My current Audi is NOT a turbo -- but my experience previously is that the 5spd tips were not all that compatible with the turo engines, even though the automatic seemed to mask the turbo lag (which in Audis is minimal) -- but the Audi 5spd tip really demonstrated tip lag more than any lag that was associated with the engine.

    Man, my three Audi 4.2 V8 equipped cars "coulda, woulda, shoulda" been even better had they not been inflicted with their lag ridden transmissions (even though I learned to adapt to their 'adaptations' fairly handily.)

    I think overall we are not in violent agreement, but we are not that far off either.

    I rarely use tip mode, opting instead to mostly enjoy "S" mode's ability to ape [mostly] my intentions if not exactly my actions. I actually thought today that the "S" mode might even be able to better my intentions.

    Then that thought passed. :shades:
  • wco81wco81 Posts: 495
    Well test drove an A4 2.0T CVT yesterday. Has plenty of acceleration for me. I was getting up to 80 without even trying and would have had to weave in the freeway to go higher. Break pedal seemed really sensitive. Slightest pressure made the car stop pretty hard. If I applied the same kind of pressure as in my car, the thing would have screeched hard and left skid marks.

    A couple of things which make me hesitant about the car itself. Feels a bit cramped, with the headliner just above my head. Back seat, my knees aren't against the front seat like the Lexus IS is suppose to be (I'm 5-8 to 5-9) but again, feels a bit clausterphobic with the walls and ceiling right around you.

    It's not noisy but on the freeway, hear more road noise than my folks' Lexus ES. Also the interior had hard dash plastics and the leather is thick, compared to the softer leather in the Lexus. Maybe it lasts longer that way and maybe that means firmer seat support.

    No aux port for the iPod and the center console storage is kind of shallow. One thing I forgot to check for is whether it has a storage compartment for sunglasses. I know it sounds trivial but for the kind of money we're talking about, the more conveniences the better.

    Probably would not have looked at the car except for the lease deal. Prefer to buy but the legendary German repair costs and reliability problems make me stay away from buying a German car. May still lease but will have to test drive others.
  • skid0skid0 Posts: 16
    Hi, Mark.

    By 'tip lag', do you mean lag before down/up shifting? With my previous Eagle Talon, and my current Subaru Outback, I couldn't down/up shift any quicker. The one exception is that tip mode sometimes delays upshifts (very infuriating the 1-3% of the time it happens).

    I've read about throttle-by-wire lag, but never experienced that at all.

    As far as turbo lag, the Talon had it. In comparison, there's none in the A4. And there's triple the torque at 2000 rpm compared to either the Talon or Outback. Engine and tranny perf is SO much better in the A4 than any of my previous cars that I just cannot complain about them.

    (The steering and brake response aren't what I like, tho...)

    I don't like 'S' mode, the engine just revs too much for me to resist upshifting :) . I'm really liking tip mode. If the car had paddles, I'd probably use tip 100% of the time. ('course, that'd ruin the gas mileage. I had started driving quite agressively before I put the A4 away for the winter!)

    What do you think of the ESP? My last drive in the A4 was in 1 inch of snow. Since I'd been riding cycles and racing with the local car club in long-ago winters, I really like power sliding. When I turned off ESP, I nearly lost control. Was no fun at all... sigh. The Subie's LSD makes power slides real easy...
  • trometrome Posts: 17
    To the 5'9 guy to said the headliner was "near his head", I am 6'4 and I have plenty of headroom.. at least 3 inches to spare. Try adjusting the seats down.
  • wco81wco81 Posts: 495
    That was me. Yeah maybe the seats weren't optimal. I just moved it up a bit and reclined it.

    I drove one with the sunroof. You can't seem to buy one wihtout the Sunroof package unless you order one from the factory.

    But even the back seat, the ceiling was right there.
  • edwardsfedwardsf Posts: 188
    WCO, I am also confused about your opinion on headroom. I am 6-2, with a long torso and have obsessed on this issue. I have found VERY few cars that have either enough headroom or a decent field of view. Most cars have such a rakish roof that all one sees is the visor. The A4 is THE best small sports sedan out there for headroom and legroom for a tall guy. The C230 is close and no other car, including the supposedly larger TL and G35, have as much room as the A4. Back seat? Sorry, but it is not a factor for me. I have no kids and no clients that get in my car. If it were, I would not get a small sports sedan.
  • edwardsfedwardsf Posts: 188
    So if I can summarize by quoting your quite poetic post,

    "However, the auto version of the 2.0T and the 3.2 are "less eager" than their manual counterparts."

    Okay. So "underpowered" is maybe just poetic license....

    Now, a question. I ordered an A4 instead of getting one off the lot mainly based on your previous exhortations to get the exact car I wanted. So I did order one on 11/4. It is to be built 12/12. Shipped early January. Reach Long Beach 1/25. Get the to the dealer around 2/4. So that is 3 months. Is that normal? Will it actually be later in the year due to holidays? (Love those German 7 week holidays!). Right now, since I will miss much of the winter where I can use the Quattro, I am tempted to cancel and just grab one with options I don't want. My waiting pleasure is not as fun as my own impatience is driving me crazy!
  • wco81wco81 Posts: 495
    Well I tried the backseat after the test drive just because I'm also considering the Lexus IS and people were complaining about the backseat in that car.

    Lets put it this way, I have an old Acura Integra with sunroof and it felt about the same. Actually a bit worse because on my car, I reclined the seat back a bit to give myself headroom.

    But for this test drive, I didn't want to recline back and relax. I wanted to be alert so I kept it upright.

    I guess I was hoping for something more like a mid-size or compact rather than the subcompact which my car is. And which the A4 feels like.

    It's not a big strike against it.

    BTW, I couldn't figure out how to change the computer readout to display the MPG. Does the A4 have such features?
  • I think 9 - 14 weeks is a normal lead time. The time of year seems to matter more during the MY change in June.

    I still feel waiting for your exact configuration has merit.

    It is, as you well know, not my money.

    Do what you want even if it is for some impulse -- this is hardly an illegal, immoral or fattening activity.

    Listen first though to Meatloaf's Rhapsody by the Dashboard Lights before you cancel your order (god I'm old.)

    :shades:
  • Tip[tronic]-lag:

    a characteristic of several ZF (as I recall) based manu-matic transmissions (probably programmed by the various auto mfg's who buy these transmissions in an effort to improve gas mileage) to delay downshifting to the next lowest gear therefore often remaining in a gear that is one gear too high for the current torque of the engine so attached (too high for anything other than painfully slow re-acceleration.)

    In practice, this means that placing the car with the tip transmission in "D" and driving to normal road speeds and then slowing down for a traffic light that at the moment you begin slowing is red only to have the light turn green while the car retains some (very slow) forward momentum.

    The car is in 2nd gear, the RPM's although above "stall speed" are sufficiently below the torque sweet spot for "normal or spirited" acceleration. The light turns green, the driver presses the accelerator pedal moderately and the car "barely" begins to accelerate -- the driver compensates by pressing the accelerator pedal more deeply.

    The engine-transmission program detecting the driver has called for some rather more urgent acceleration downshifts the transmission and when coupled with the then current depression of the accelerator pedal causes what feels to the driver like:

    braking, slowing, rolling and slowing, followed by depressing the accelerator followed by a modest uptick of speed followed by a further press of the accelerator followed by a LEAP, or LUNGE as the car downshifts and the engine with a 2/3 or 3/4 throttle races to its redline.

    The time from the slowing to the lurching is called in an Audi "tip lag" in a BMW "step lag" and so on. From a duration standpoint, this process, this cycle takes from 1/3 to 1 2/3rd's of a second. I have heard of it taking 2 seconds, but that seems an eternity -- 1/2 second is more in line, generally not over 3/4ths of a second for this whole ballet move to happen.

    Tiptronic transmissions were, I believe, first offered in Porsches, then Audis.

    Tiptronics are adaptive transmissions and apparently have fairly broad software control capabilities.

    In "D" mode a tiptronic is determined, really determined to upshift as soon as possible to keep the engine RPM's as low as possible. Further, in "D" mode, downshifts happen as late as possible for the same purpose.

    When programmed by the driver via the "S" mode, the transmission is still fully automatic but the shifts feel "crisp" (or more crisp) as each gear is held a bit longer before upshift and the auto downshifts happen sooner.

    In my personal experience, D is frustrating and maybe potentially dangerous if the driver does not adapt to the behavior of the transmission. S more closely approximates the manual (more solid, less smooth) experience.

    To each his own.

    The Audi 6 spd tip is about the best manumatic adaptation to date (it would be easy to imagine Mercedes 7spd version is even better.) Currently Audi and BMW both use "something" tronic transmissions (6spds) in their near lux and lux sedans.

    A fully automatic-manual (it has automatic clutch or clutches) transmission (mostly) is offered by Audi and BMW -- Audi calls theirs DSG and BMW dubbed theirs SMG.

    The Audi version has two automatic clutches. Some think the DSG and SMG are THE best auto trans avail that can be afforded by mere mortals.

    I would love to have the choice of full auto, DSG or full manual.

    Not gonna happen, I'd wager.

    =====

    ESP, ABS+brake assist are MUST have technologies.

    Don't even consider a car without these driving assists.

    Audis can be made to power slide (quattros) without the ESP on.

    I rarely turn ESP off though -- I only do this when I am "playing in the snow" (doing donuts) in an abandoned but snow-covered parking lot with lots of room in all directions.

    Drive it like you live.

    :shades:
  • skid0skid0 Posts: 16
    Tip[tronic]-lag:

    a characteristic of several ZF (as I recall) based manu-matic transmissions (probably programmed by the various auto mfg's who buy these transmissions in an effort to improve gas mileage) to delay downshifting to the next lowest gear therefore often remaining in a gear that is one gear too high for the current torque of the engine so attached (too high for anything other than painfully slow re-acceleration.)
    ----------------------------------------------
    (Thanks for the excellent explanation, Mark.)

    This is *so* funny! On my test drive, this feature (not immediately downshifting) is what SOLD me on the A4!

    When I drive a manual, I let the engine lug. I seldom need instant, full power. Even in my slowest car, the Outback, I can easily keep up in rush-hour crazyness.

    I absolutely *hate* the usual auto behavior of jumping out of lockup at the slightest touch of throttle. The 2005+ A4's don't do that. You just get great (for a 4 cylinder) accel.

    The A4 has SO much torque, even at 1800 rpm, that I don't feel the need for more power. Don't misunderstand-I go WOT quite often on my long drive home from work. But that's in the middle of nowhere, with no traffic for miles.
  • The standard wheels are 16" on the 2.0T (Far right in the picture below), 17" on the 3.2 (2nd from the left), and the 18" S-line wheels are on the far left.

    You can order the S-line package with any exterior color. The only INTERIOR color you can get is Ebony.

    image
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,994
    Those 18s are sweet! I wonder why I can't pick the S-Line Package on the audi website????????

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • Make sure you pick the leather interior and premium pack. You need those are two options before choosing s-line.
  • My dad just picked up his 2006 A4 2.0T Quattro with 6 speed manual. The car has the sunroof package and the premium package. He immediately remarked that he can't seem to display the car's average fuel economy on the screen between the tachometer and speedometer. My 2001 A4 2.8 has this feature, as did my dad's previous car (a 2001 Passat) as standard equipment. Is he missing something? He's not very technologically savvy so maybe if they redid the computer from what we're used to on the Passat and 2001 A4, he's just not getting it. But that trip computer is a big feature for him as he drives the car on long trips alot and likes to see what sort of miles per gallon he's averaging.
    I'd appreciate any help you can give, Thanks.
  • I bought a 2005 A4 this past February. I have driven standard cars 23 years and have never had to replace a clutch. This includes my 1995 Acura Integra with 176,000 miles on it, which I still own and use. The reason I provided the background is that my clutch went at 15,400 Miles, while I was traveling in Massachusetts. I had to rent a car to get home to CT and my car will be in the Boston area for the next couple of weeks. The car drove normal one day and the next morning when I went to pick it up at the car valet their was a very strong obnoxious burning smell, a vibration / rattling sound underneath the car and the stick shift was difficult to work with. I just got the car to local dealership when the clutch went. Has anyone heard of this before. The gas gage stopped working properly about a month after buying the car and I believe it is happening again. :lemon: ??
  • What does he see between the tach & speedo? He did find the little button on the bottom of the wiper stalk that toggles between current trip mileage and cumulative mileage?

    And I'm sure that he has discovered the rocker switch on the end of the stalk...

    Byron - manual and proud of it :P
  • Evidently it's not there anymore. They changed it for 2006 and its now part of an 1800 dollar package and comes with a color screen. Wahoo. He's really disappointed and is thinking of returning the car after 1 day with it. They never told him anything, we always just assumed the car would have it considering a 2001 Passat GLS base model would come with it standard. What a shame.
  • Wow!... I hadn't considered that as my '06 has just about everything but the girl... I mean nav.

    That is a shame but just goes to show that you really have to do your homework. This current gen A4 is much improved over the previous generation in virtually every respect. Perhaps the dealer will be willing to work with him on another A4 with the tech pack.

    Best of luck

    Byron
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,994
    It isn't as obscure as you think for a clutch to burn out with so little mileage on it. It has happened before. A valet on his (or her) first night could do some real damage. A poster on the BMW 5 series board who has very similar stick driving credentials to you had to have the clutch replaced at 14,000 miles on his 530i. It wqas just a freak thing. I recently replaced the clutch on my 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH after only 53,000 miles. The forst half of my car's life was spent in lots of bumper to bumper traffic, city driving, on and off the clutch while parallel parking... when I lived in NYC.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    I was going to mention that as well. That's a nice feature and it's a shame after so many years that Audi took it out for 2006, and you have to order the technology package to get it.

    The trip computer should be part of the premium package.
  • Hi again... looking for expertise on something that my instinct tells me is a big deal...

    I bought my 2005.5 A4 2.0T Q Auto in May. Have been driving it and apart from a few rattles and squeaks, it has been great. It has adapted to my style of driving, and I barely notice the tip lag that was such a pain initially.

    Now, yesterday, I'm driving from A to B, using the manual shift mode as I often do, when out of the blue, it goes into "fail safe mode"... Changes to automatic, and the "gear selector" display goes to red background with all capital letter indicators... doesn't even tell you which you're driving in.

    I thought this was probably something major, although the car continued to drive normally, and as soon as I arrived at B (10 minutes later). Turned it off, opened the manual and called the dealership. Turns out they are swamped today, and although they want me to bring the car in, they don't have a replacement audi, and we're expecting a winter storm tomorrow!! So needless to say, I drove it to work today. Now here is the bizarre thing, after I finished at B last evening, I started the car, and it was still in fail safe mode initially, but within 5 minutes it had gone back to normal, and yes the tiptronic system worked fine. No problems this morning on my drive to work.

    Has anyone experienced this problem?? Does anyone have any ideas... I guess I best take it in anyway....
  • I just made a deposit on a manual pre-owed 2005 A4 2.0T (the newer model, the FSI one). The car only has 82 miles. My friend test drove the car for me and he said the car was smooth. After we got back to the dealer and popped the hood, the engine sounded kind of loud. It has some kind of “ metal knocking metal” sound. We asked the dealer and he said it is normal. Then he offered to pop another one (new 2.0T Quattro). It sounded loud too but did’t have that shape metal knocking sound. So is it normal? The car is new. We asked the dealer how the car was used. (They said the car was Corporate Demo) But he isn’t sure the history of the car neither. He said it might be used in the car show, picture models, stuff like that. I worried perhaps the engine was screwed by the ppl who test drove it. Thus, my main concern is the weird sound from the engine. Any clue? Thx
  • 82 miles? A good deal? Well, it will have full protection and maint. Is it a good deal?

    I would take it based only on what you have written.
  • 06a406a4 Posts: 2
    I also am disappointed that my new a4 does not have the trip computer. The salesman told me that it did. They were so confused at the dealership that they told me that the button on the ww arm had not been installed on that particlur car and they would order a new one if I would buy the car. latter they found out the trip computer was no longer standard without the $1800 tech package.
  • I'm 95% sure that the sound is normal. It may have been louder because the engine wasn't fully warmed up? When you do a cold start, does the engine almost sound like a muffeled diesel? If so, its normal and nothing to be alarmed about.
  • If I were you, I would complain to AoA. Dealers are not very forgiving on situations like these. You really have to pull some teeth to get some sort of compensation for their ignorance.

    Call AoA. Even send them a letter via certified mail. If they have it on record, they will be willing to work something out.

    I've had 2 situations with AoA and both had positive outcomes:

    My car had a check engine light a few weeks after I first got it. It turned out to be a small plastic valve (or so they told me) that needed replacing. No biggie, except the Service Department was waiting on Parts to receive it from Canada. So I went chugging along in a 2003 A6 loaner for about 3 weeks before I got my car back. A6's aren't bad, but it really started to irritate me that I couldn't drive my new car after 6 months of car shopping. After I got my car back, I complained to the Dealer Manager. He did nothing except pass the buck to AoA (lame). I called AoA and within 15 minutes got one month lease payment credited. Pretty fair if you ask me.

    On another note, I had ordered a front plate filler usually reserved for states that do not require a front license plate (I live in Cali). It gives the car a much more cleaner/Euro look. Anyways, since my car had the s-line package and therefore a different grill, Parts Department had to call Germany for this plate (BTW, the front plate filler from the S4 would have fit just fine, dunno why the Parts Department didn't compute that even after I suggested it). Part cost was 70 bucks. Parts even told me that they could get it shipped within a week if I paid for Express Shipping (biggest bunch of BS I have heard) which was 20 bucks. A month rolls by, and the parts department gives me a lame excuse, that the part they received was defective. OK, so I waited for another month, still no front plate filler! I went to the parts department, got into an argument with the Parts Manager there, and stormed out. They said they could not refund my money (not even the "Express Shipping" charge) because the part was a special order. I got on the phone with AoA. Three business days later, the Parts Department suddenly has my part and the Manager who I had got into an argument with quietly refunds the shipping charge.

    The kicker: Right afterwards, I asked the Service Department how much it would cost to install the plate. $150 bucks! I went to Auto-zone and bought a Torx screwdriver for $5.

    By the way, my car has had no problems since. Dealerships suck for the most part (especially mine), but AoA redeemed itself for their quick response to my problems.
  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    Those front panel plates screw off in less than 2 minutes w/ a phillips head screwdriver. A 10 year old kid could do it. It's crazy that a dealer would charge you $150 in labor to do that.

    The S line grill is indeed different than the regular ones, and those filler plates cannot be swapped out with the regular cars.
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