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Audi A4 2005+

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  • Mark... thank you for clarifying the action of the MMI knob, which is as you describe in the A4. It's probably just my thickness, but I still don't quite understand what rjlaero is referring to when he says it moves side to side...

    As you stated in reiteration of my post, it rotates around a central axis, but has no lateral or vertical motion ability....

    Why are we talking about this anyway??
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    Mark & Co.:

    A4 Avant 3.2 on the company site details no S-line pkg available, but Edmunds and carsdirect both show it as an option. Carsdirect shows only black as interior option on the Avant, regardless of exterior choice (S-Line black only?).

    :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:

    Insights y'all?

    The lease rates are too good to ignore, even if the car wasn't part of the original equation...
  • Red SLine A4 sits on my dealer's showroom floor.

    Sline is avail on A4 and A6 models -- I do not have a clue why the website doesn't list it.

    Of course I always order my cars, so this is non issue for me. Beats me what the SLine inventory policy, if any, is.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    Thank you!

    I'm ordering as well. I seriously doubt anyone would have my config in stock, and I'm getting far too "seasoned" to compromise...
  • Ordering is like getting a new car twice -- once when you place the order and of course when you pick it up.

    Add to that the fact that the car is exactly, not almost exactly, but exactly like you want.

    I wonder sometimes when I get in someone's "brand new" car and I ask them to show it off -- "this even has the fill in the blank, I didn't want it but it came with it;" or, "I wanted Silver with grey, but all they had was the black interior;" or, I wanted the stick shift but in the color I wanted all they had was an automatic. . . ." and so on.

    Most of these folks are acquiring vehicles with MSRP's north of $40K -- the willingness to settle completely blows me away (at almost any price point, even.)

    I wouldn't get an A3 if I couldn't get it the way I wanted it.

    Now having said that, if I spec'd a car and said "I'll take it in either White or Blue -- but it must have an Ecru leather interior," and they met my request, I certainly wouldn't just order one to be ordering one.

    Certain things are deal breakers -- increasingly almost everything is a deal breaker for me, the things that aren't I let them know about. Further they always know I have 3 or 4 months to wait so there is less impulse buying pressure applied by them to me or vice versa.

    "What'l it take to get you to buy today?"

    "Hmm, how about THAT car for $500 a month," pointing to a new S8, "with no money down."

    "Oh."

    :surprise:
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    Most of these folks are acquiring vehicles with MSRP's north of $40K -- the willingness to settle completely blows me away (at almost any price point, even.)

    But you get a "great deal", dude ;) . Don't matter it has wrong engine, transmission and color, but it was $1000 off :sick:

    Plus, chances are, you wan't like it as much, so you are more likely to start shopping sooner than later.

    You and I know it is not really a good deal if it is not what you want. But most people don't really know what they want, so they get what's there.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    Agreed with all of the above.

    Well, I'm set on (if I go this route) a 3.2 Tip with S-Line, Sunroof and Premium, rear bags and headlight squirts.

    I don't need NAV or Bluetooth or Sat Radio or Parktronic or xenons and such. Gut says if it's on the lot with Premium and roof, it's going to carry most of the rest as well.

    Hello S.O. hello!
  • My brother is thinking about getting an A4 avant (either the old model 1.8T or the brand new one 2.0T) so that he can bring around his dog(dane/husky mix) which is about 29” at the shoulder. Does anybody know the height of the cargo area(with the seats up)? Or do you think the dealer won’t mind actually having the dog jump on the car(probably not on a used one)?
  • Navigation is hard to live without once you get it.

    Sat radio will kill broadcast radio it is so good.

    Go SO and you will be happy.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    I have NAV now. For the number of times it's really come in handy for me (maybe two), I don't need it. I drive mostly locally +- 10K miles a year. Maybe four times a year I'm out of the area on business in my car, but I know where I'm headed beforehand. What would be handy for me is a portable NAV since the majority of my trips are air travel with rental.

    I don't listen to the radio much in the car. Occasionally the local news channel, but for music I'm pre-recorded and that's infrequent. I like to listen to my car. :shades:

    The other one is the communication piece. I've made a point of distancing myself from 24/7 professional accessibility. If someone really needs me they can get me, but I make well known what I consider an "emergency"! ;)

    SO is me fo' sho!
  • dl7265dl7265 Posts: 1,381
    This won't be much help. But none of the brochures I have show that measurement. Id say take a tape to the dealer. not sure they would go for a "puppy test drive". Im guessing off the top of my head he'd be fine. Considering I cram my Grey( long legs) in the backseat of my E90 :surprise:

    DL
  • I would be appreciative of any candid advice a seasoned Audi owner (or someone thoroughly knowledgeable of Audi's)could offer with respect whether purchasing a new A4 is a good choice as a car to own for 5+ years. I've seen confusing information. Overall, the Audi problems and solutions forum is rather disturbing. And, it's no secret that Audi is not a good performer in the JD power surveys. Yet, I notice that Consumer Reports classifies the A4 as recommended (meaning average or better than average reliability) and especially good with respect to crash protection.

    What gives? Who is kidding who? I would love to hear some honest opinions from Audi owners (those with some real world experience with the A4 for at least a few years). I like the car, as well as the A6, in the showroom and test drives. It's the unknown that worries me a bit.

    Thank you.
  • First Audi 1977.

    Current Audi 2005 A6 3.2

    Total number between company cars, wife's and mine = 28.

    They have all had issues from time to time. Each newer one has been an improvement in this regard over the previous one.

    I would want the car to be certified to 100,000 miles which is an Audi program called CPO-ing.

    It is NOT required to CPO the car when you buy it, lease it. You need to CPO it, Oh, Say by 45,000+ miles.

    You could lease the car, buy the car in cash or get the hybrid lease and get it for 15,000 miles per year, as you approached 45,000 miles you could determine if you wanted to keep the car and buy it out or walk away.

    I am, some would say, blindly loyal. But I would not hesitate to acquire a new Audi product if I liked the features, functions and everything about the car's drive.

    No car is perfect.

    The Audis are "perfectly terrific" to drive however.

    The Audi advantage protects you from $.$$ shocks though.

    Can't name names, but try some of the Audi only blog sites that are out there. Two of them, at least, leap to mind as good sources for the kind of dialog you are hoping for.

    I would expect the folks to be rabid -- in favor of Audis.

    The new A4 2.0T just won another comparo test this month against some pretty impressive competition and it beat out the BMW 325xi.

    Check out Road & Track.
  • . . .despite my "blind" loyalty to Audi, in 2005, I became price aware and decided Audis were worth more than other cars -- but only a "little bit" more.

    Since I lease, I tend to look at things in terms of Cap Cost, Cap Cost reduction, Residual, Money Factor and term.

    An Audi A4 with Sunroof package and no negotiation is today $369/36 months. This is the 2.0T version.

    I would shop price with competing cars.

    At the time my wife turned coat from Audi to BMW, last May, her two final choices were a 2005.5 A4 3.2Q vs a 2005 BMW X3 3.0. In her case two things sewed it up in BMW's favor:

    #1 The BMW could be had with a manual transmission

    #3 The Audi was $44K and the BMW $47K and the Audi was $684/mo 36 mo with no Cap cost contribution on our part and the BMW was $581/mo 36 mo ditto no cost contribution on our part.

    There was no #2.

    Audi lost my wife as a customer probably due to the stick, but the choice would have been very difficult had their have been price parity. The $103 per mo less for a $3K more MSRP vehicle was just too much to take.

    My guess is for $581, the Audi would have been a SERIOUS contender to the BMW, and for $576, the Audi out of sheer loyalty would've been darn near impossible to beat.

    Such is life. :surprise:
  • dl7265dl7265 Posts: 1,381
    And now add another $600 to the pot. In my opinion they should have Reduced pricing about $600. After all, Besides Q and beautiful interiors Audi's were allways about the better Value.

    In a area in North Dallas where every other car on the road is a Lux or Navigator the Audi is very obscure. Which for me would be great. But one has to worry about the sales...

    DL
  • I had been driving stick shift Audi's since 1985. Drove the S5000, 90, A6Q 2.7T and now have the A4 2.0T, all manual. Last year, Audi did not offer a stick in the A6, so we settled for the A4. It was adequate, but lacked zip, so we looked around for other makers (Subaru, Volvo, Jaguar, etc.) who sell AWD cars with stick shifters, and found the BMW 330xi. We got our car last December, and my wife loves it from Day 1. She drives it exclusively, while I drive both alternately. I have to admit it, I prefer the 330 over the Audi in terms of performance. I realize the engines are different, and the bimmer costs more, but if Audi drops the manual from its car line, I'll be gone for good.
  • socala4socala4 Posts: 2,427
    Don't take this as gospel, but I've owned an A4 since June (2.0 liter Turbo FWD with 6-speed manual), and did my homework about the car, so here's my take.

    Firstly, you are certainly taking more of a risk with a European car than you would with a Japanese one, that I cannot deny. Simply put, the Japanese makers tend to use better quality control processes than do other automakers, and they set the standard for everyone else, including Mercedes and BMW. If that element of risk scares you, then buy a Lexus, Acura or possibly an Infiniti, and be done with it.

    That being said, there are things that you can do to mitigate the risk, and there are many Audi owners not posting on the problems board who have had good luck with their cars. You may find that the level of refinement and je ne sais quoi of the driving experience make it worth taking the chance.

    Based upon what I've read on forums and various Audi owners with whom I've spoken, you seem to find three categories of owners: (a) those with bulletproof cars, (b) those with niggling minor problems, such as electronics, but with no major issues with drivetrain, etc. and (c) the occasional owner of a lemon (which admittedly seems to happen more often than it would to the owner of the Japanese cars in its class.)

    Also keep in mind that the turbo 4-cylinder Audis have long been the favorites of stoplight racers who like to chip/ flash their cars and otherwise drive them hard. As a result, you may find drivetrain problems that have been owner-induced and created by abuse, rather than being the direct fault of the manufacturer (although to be fair, Audi should know this about the customer base and engineer the car to handle the tweaks and additional power.)

    If you're willing to go for it, I'd suggest the following with any other car, but particularly doing so for anything coming out of Europe:

    -Carefully inspect and test drive the individual car that you would purchase before buying it. Don't just take delivery without making sure that the specific car that you would take home with you is in top notch condition. I advise this because unlike the Japanese that invest a lot of quality control efforts up front and throughout the assembly process, the German makers still rely heavily on the traditional Henry Ford-inspired method of putting much of the QC effort at the back end, after the car has already been assembled, which creates more opportunities for mistakes. Leave the lot confident that your car got the QC that it deserved, and that nothing problematic has slipped past anyone.

    -Break it in properly. Don't just begin driving the car as you would throughout its useful life -- follow the break-in procedure strictly, being sure to vary the engine speeds throughout the range so that the seals seat properly, and avoid cruising at constant speeds and use of the cruise control during this time. You should end up with minimal oil consumption, better fuel economy and superior long-term reliability of the motor if you follow this, and can expect problems if you don't. (FWIW, I was able to get 30 mpg after extended crusing at 85-95 mph, and match the EPA 34 mpg rating if cruising at about 72 mph.)

    -Change oil frequently, it is the singlemost important maintenance item for long engine life. The Audi maintenance plan provides for oil changes every year/ 10k miles after an initial 6 mo/ 5k change, which is really far too long an interval. Use synthetic oil and change it every 6 mo/ 5k (whichever comes first) without fail, even though you will need to pay for the additional changes. Some of the previous 1.8 liter turbos in the prior model had coking problems, due to the use of non-synthetic oil and infrequent oil changes.

    -If you have a turbo, let it idle before shutting it down. Turbos tend to run hot and require circulating coolant in order to cool down, so idling after driving allows time for this cooling to occur. Shutting it down immediately after arrival, particularly after hard driving, is a recipe for eventual problems.

    One more bit: Some of Audi's QC problems in North America came from the fact that the QC was previously handled by VWoA, which did a sloppy job of it across the entire product line. Audi's US branch has since developed its own seperate quality control group, seperate from VWoA, in order to pay specific attention to cars in its lineup. If you review the JD Power IQS, this seems to be helping, although the cars admittedly still aren't at the level of the Japanese makers.

    You will have to make the decision whether the driving experience is worth some extra effort, higher parts costs post-warranty and the greater risk of reliability issues. If you intend to own the car for only a couple of years, the decision is less risky, as you would be selling the car relatively new and with a warranty that extends four years from the purchase date. Personally, I found the Asian alternatives to be a bit dull and staid for my tastes, and my car thus far has had impeccable fit-and-finish and only one minor problem (with the electronic key). The drivetrain has been solid and performs very nicely.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    On the whole I agree with most of your post, however:

    "Change oil frequently, it is the singlemost important maintenance item for long engine life. The Audi maintenance plan provides for oil changes every year/ 10k miles after an initial 6 mo/ 5k change, which is really far too long an interval. Use synthetic oil and change it every 6 mo/ 5k (whichever comes first) without fail, even though you will need to pay for the additional changes."

    Do you have any scientific data to back this up? I seriously doubt that changing oil before the recommended 10,000 mile oil change interval (assuming the proper VW spec synthitic oil is being used) will provide any benefit at all (FWIW, I'm not referring to the initial 5K change here). Your comment about the coking (and sludging) problems on the previous generation 1.8t mills being run with conventional oil (or even inferior synthetic for that matter) really isn't relevant to this discussion. As I see it, use the proper oil (i.e. something like Mobil 1 0W-40) OR risk coking and sludging regardless of how often you change your oil.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • socala4socala4 Posts: 2,427
    I realize that there is some debate about appropriate intervals, and that some don't subscribe to the belief that frequent oil changes do much good. And I admittedly don't have a study to back me up, so feel free to differ. That being said, I look at this way:

    -By definition, most drivers drive their cars under what manufacturers term to be "severe conditions" (i.e. stop-and-go traffic, dusty areas, etc.), so following the "normal" schedule makes little sense for virtually everyone on the road. At the very least, drivers should be following the "severe" schedules in their owners manuals.

    -One purpose of motor oil is to help cool the engine. The more heat the engine generates, the more quickly the oil will break down. And turbos generate more heat, so the A4 2.0 liter is a good candidate for frequent oil changes.

    -Oil will, over time, become polluted by some of the dust and dirt in the operating environment. The less frequent the oil changes, the more time that dirt has to circulate within the motor. I'd prefer to get rid of those contaminants sooner than later.

    -As oil deteriorates, it can create sludge, which is very difficult to get rid and will likely harm an engine. I'd prefer to err on the side of caution and change frequently to avoid sludge than to deal with it, by which time it is likely to late to do anything about it.

    I'd welcome information to the contrary, but I'm willing to make the effort and spend the time and money on the additional changes. I'm not using the 3,000 mile intervals that I would have in the old days, but having seen the oil that was in my crankcase prior to my first oil change, I can't imagine why I'd want to leave it in there for another six months.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    A few points...

    "One purpose of motor oil is to help cool the engine. The more heat the engine generates, the more quickly the oil will break down. And turbos generate more heat, so the A4 2.0 liter is a good candidate for frequent oil changes."

    As a general rule, the amount of heat generated by an engine is directly proportional to the output of said engine (before any parasitic losses associated with superchargers and such), regardless of whether the induction system is naturally aspirated, turbocharged or supercharged.

    Said another way, while the 2.0T will certainly generate more heat than the normally aspirated 2.0 VW mill, I seriously doubt that the 200 HP 2.0T engine generates significantly more heat (if any) than did the 3.0 liter 225 HP I6 mill in my 530i.

    "Oil will, over time, become polluted by some of the dust and dirt in the operating environment. The less frequent the oil changes, the more time that dirt has to circulate within the motor. I'd prefer to get rid of those contaminants sooner than later."

    Well, sort of. True, dust, dirt, combustion by-products and acid from the oil reacting with condensed water do pollute the oil of every engine. That having been said, there are several other factors in play here:

    1) The oil filter will remove the vast majority of said dust and dirt.
    2) Modern oil filters are specifically designed to last well beyond the recommended OCI.
    3) Oil filters become ever more efficient at cleaning the oil, right up to the point where the bypass starts to open (something that shouldn't happen until many thousands of miles beyond the recommended OCI).
    4) Modern engines produce the barest of a fraction of the amount of combustion byproducts compared to engines built as little as ten years ago. Said another way, there just ain't that much for the oil to do here.
    5) High quality synthetic oils (especially those that meet the stringent VW spec) are capable of holding prodigious amounts of contaminants in suspension. Said another way, modern oil can hold more but modern engines produce less.
    6) High quality synthetic oils (especially those that meet the stringent VW spec) are capable of holding significant amounts of condensed water in suspension and NOT reacting with said water to cause acid. The water is simply held in suspension until the oil temperatures get high enough to boil it away.

    "As oil deteriorates, it can create sludge, which is very difficult to get rid and will likely harm an engine. I'd prefer to err on the side of caution and change frequently to avoid sludge than to deal with it, by which time it is likely to late to do anything about it."

    No argument from me on this one. The only comment I have is that a 10,000 mile OCI is in my book "erring on the side of caution". When I was working for MB-USA they were running some of their early synthetic oil tests on a few test mules and discovered (via oil analysis) that even 20,000 miles in NYC metro area traffic wasn't enough to bring the oil quality levels below minimum.

    "I'd welcome information to the contrary, but I'm willing to make the effort and spend the time and money on the additional changes."

    Consider the following:
    BMW and Porsche have been recommending 15,000 mile OCIs for a minimum of eight model years now (I think Porsche is more like 10 or even 12 years). Have you heard of any oil related engine failures on those cars (some of which are will over the 100,000 mile mark by now)? I haven't.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
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