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Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

19979981000100210031353

Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Well, we're comparing new to new, right?

    The V8 Bimmer had 500 miles...I know it's a slippery slope, but that seems more new than CPO to me.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I don't mind the headlights, pure function.

    AWD should have been standard, if only to get away from the Accord comparisons.

    PAWS sounds like Jaguar's name for all wheel drive.
  • corvettecorvette United StatesPosts: 4,140
    "PAWS sounds like Jaguar's name for all wheel drive."

    Good one! :P
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,806
    edited February 2013
    But also 2 years old. I hope it wasn't sitting outside, untouched, for 2 years.

    Regarding the RL, yes, AWD should be standard. It needs something to differentiate itself other than odd eyes.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,806
    It's a used bargain - you can get a pristine 05+ one here for around 20K, lots of bang for the buck. But a big Accord for 60K, not such a bargain.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,508
    Not to mention that you'd have to put up with that hideously ugly car. That has to be the worst grille design in the last few years. :sick:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Hmm.

    Not new.

    Not used. Not CPO either.

    Call it Unused? :D
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,432
    edited February 2013
    As far as I know, it would be sold as new and carry the warranty (and maintenance) as such. By the time those expire, anything that would have suffered sitting around for 2 years would probably be taken care of on the factory dime. So i say new. ;)

    HOWEVER, I will point out that the nicest used one to go through auction had just 2k on it and sold for $48k. So you are still paying a premium on this car to buy "new."

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Untitled, perhaps?

    Man, why aren't these Bimmers being driven at all? 2k miles?

    Couldn't afford the premium fuel? :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    2nd set of tires ordered already this year.

    After test driving several competent cars, but none as fun as my Miata, I decided to buy...

    New tires!

    I didn't like the stiff ride over the awful potholes here, plus the SUV-like fender gaps in the wheel wells. So I did a bunch of research and found 2 people running a bigger tire size (what I want), and a 3rd running a much bigger tire size.

    My stock size was 205/45R17, but there is also a 215/45R17 factory tire. I purchased 215/50R17, same as the 2 folks mentioned above.

    So I'm 4.9% oversized, 0.4" more sidewall. But...the difference is only half that compared to the 215mm size, and that's within the +/- 3% industry tolerance for tire size variation.

    I stretched a bit, but didn't go too crazy.

    Tire Rack has a close out and that prompted me to order them now. Shipped to a local shop for mounting hopefully next week. Will take before/after pics. I hope these fill out the wheel wells a little better than the tiny looking OEM rubber.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,508
    You'll probably notice the ride being a little more compliant, but you'll definitely notice the gauges being depressed! Just don't watch your speedometer too much, because that 20 mph morning drive might seem just a tad bit slower here on in.... :P
  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,322
    edited February 2013
    Those prices make me feel good about my AWD LaCrosse with nav and panoramic roof -- brand new for 35k. Maybe the Acura is worth 26k more -- but my Buick is a very nice place to spend time.
  • breldbreld Posts: 1,325
    Is that a 3-door or 5-door?

    A 3-door would be right around $16k auction. A 5-door is more like $19k.


    It's a 5-door - that's a big difference in auction price for the two extra doors.

    Sounds like the $18,975 price is a great one - or indicative of problems, but the carfax is clean.

    Maybe I'll check it out further next week if it's still available.

    2011 BMW 535xi - 2015 GTI - 2008 A3 - 2009 Ody

  • breldbreld Posts: 1,325
    My wife and I went and test drove the Elantra GT over lunch - found a nice one with just the "touch & go" package, which adds the 17" wheels, leather steering wheel/shifter, proximity key and a couple of other things for $950. Nicely equipped if you don't need the panoramic sunroof. When I tested one last year, it was a manual, so I was interested to drive the automatic this time.

    I was very pleased with the way it drove - thought it was sporty enough in handling, and acceleration was at least adequate. I like the styling inside and out. Rear legroom was decent for the size of car. Quiet on the highway.

    Without a direct contrast to the Mazda3 or Focus, I like it. But I plan on taking a closer look at those two again. And that used Golf TDI is a strong contender too.

    2011 BMW 535xi - 2015 GTI - 2008 A3 - 2009 Ody

  • breldbreld Posts: 1,325
    With these hatchbacks I'm considering, I'm strongly considering leasing for the first time.

    How do you evaluate a lease deal? I can back into the payments using the terms of the lease, but what do you negotiate on? The money rate and residual are set, right? So do you concentrate on the cost of the car (cap cost, right?) just like with a purchase, and figure the payments that way?

    Is there a rule of thumb on what a good lease payment is based on the relative value of the car? How much is "too much" to put down ($0 down would be nice)?

    Thanks for the input - I'm certainly well versed in negotiating the purchase of a car, but not sure how to do so with a lease.

    2011 BMW 535xi - 2015 GTI - 2008 A3 - 2009 Ody

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Funny thing is the speedo reads fast now, at least compared to the GPS. About 1-2 mph faster than I'm going at highway speeds.

    With new tire it will read a little slow, but by about the same difference.

    Bob pointed out my gearing will be 5% taller but I'm fine with that, as even 6th gear is way too short.

    Some times I look for 7th, because 6th revs so high i think im in 4th!

    Still haven't found 7th gear. LOL
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    How did you find the ride?

    I drove the 17"s but with the sport suspension and felt it was slightly brittle.
  • breldbreld Posts: 1,325
    Oh - that's the other thing that comes with that "Touch & Go" package - the "sports" suspension.

    I had your recent review in mind during the test drive, and I didn't really notice any harshness to the ride, though I can't say we went over any particularly bad roads or bumps.

    My wife definitely likes it over the Mazda3 in the styling department - though she did say that if I like the drive of the Mazda better then that should bear more weight in the decision. I'm definitely swayed by the fact the Mazda3 is due for a model change and the Elantra GT is a fresh design.

    I'm interested to check out the Focus to see if that auto trannie is as bad as everyone says. And I'll likely check out the Impreza too.

    2011 BMW 535xi - 2015 GTI - 2008 A3 - 2009 Ody

  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,841
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  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,378
    edited February 2013
    My stock size was 205/45R17, but there is also a 215/45R17 factory tire. I purchased 215/50R17, same as the 2 folks mentioned above.

    Interesting. Will be curious to hear your impressions. If the ride quality is better, is it because of the bigger sidewall or that its a different tire? Maybe some of both?

    BTW- are you on the miata net forums?

    15 Leaf / 08 RDX

  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,322
    Leasing the Sonata is super cheap. Lots of manufacturer back money. The Elentra is new so it's hard to say whether the deals are super. Check ridewithg.com for info.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,661
    Breld

    There is actually a lot to focus on when you are talking about a lease. 1st & foremost is the selling price of the car. You negotiate this just as you would a purchase.

    The residual value is set by "the bank," or leasing company.

    The lease rate or money factor is also set by the bank, but dealers are allowed to mark this up to make additional profit. The dealer will play the "it's only $20 per month more" card, but that $20 is actually $720 over the 36 month life of the lease.

    All leases have what's called a bank fee or acquisition fee. This is set. Usually somewhere between $500 & $800. I know for a fact that BMW allows its dealers to mark this up an additional $200 (for added profit).

    There is an article somewhere on the web (maybe even here on edmunds?) that breaks down on whether a lease is a good deal compared to traditional financing. I forget what the exact number is but it's something like $150 per month per $10,000 or something like that.

    Don't put any money "down" as a capitalized cost reduction. Roll your taxes into the payment. If your car gets stolen or totaled at any point, that money will be gone.

    Keep in mind that aside from the bank fee I mentioned above, you are also on the hook for a disposition fee (usually $350) at the end of the lease (if you keep the car that long).

    Check your state's law regarding GAP insurance. All leasing (& finance) contracts written in NEW YORK STATE include GAP insurance. The state of CT does not, so dealers can bang you over the head with that in the F&I office.

    Did I leave anything out?

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH, 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L 4WD

  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,680
    At work, I've driven probably 20 or so brand new Foci and have taken 2 on an extended ride...one to the Keys and one to the west coast. Personally I like the car and I'm not a Ford person at all and I prefer the hatch version also, looks sleeker to me. The gauges are no nonsense but bland with a very ho him color...and the radio, MySync, is overly complicated that I just gave up on it. The tranny is wonkey, that's the best I can describe it. Been told by others on here that the tranny needs to "learn" the driver's driving style to cooperate and not feel so wonkey. Makes sense I guess but not sure if I'd do it. The Mazda3 is definitely the sexier looking vehicle, a much cooler looking hatch and I can recommend that Mazda reliability is top notch...ours is already at 116k and with the recent repairs, like a brand new vehicle. I think if the wife could keep this car forever, she probably would she likes it that much. Best thing to do is to rent the Focus hatch for a week and put it through your everyday life driving situations, you'll soon find out if this is a vehicle to add to the stable. And if not, you've had a fun week...money well spent in my opinion but with the way y'all flip vehicles, maybe not!

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,680
    Drove this today and it had 26k plus on it, an "S" model as it had manual adjustable seats. The cloth was just o k as the other model I drove recently, a 2012, had much grippier cloth plus the power throne which I manipulated in such a way as to have minimal spinal pain. This is a good cruising car as I found out earlier...once the traffic thinned out I used the cruise control and set it at 77 on the 70 mph I-95. Effortless really with minimal steering corrections needed though the car did need an alignment as the wheel was not dead on straight as I prefer, it was cocked a bit to the left when going straight. Seriously good mileage as compared to some of the other "economy" cars I've driven...sure the engine is definitely worked in and all that but I was getting at least 32 mpg's with the a/c cranked the majority of the time. I had to make the dial a bit warmer as one could hang meat the a/c was that cold. All the dials worked as intended and things , stalks, signals, etc. were all where they should be. The standard radio gave very nice sound with the ipod though one couldn't see the artist's name and song title through the standard system, something that should be already in place. We had some rain again but not much and as we got back into the Palm beach area, the rains hit again. Overall on the "Sandman Scale", I'm giving the Altima an 8.5 as it was a pleasure to drive, got exceptional mileage for a mid sized vehicle and had ample passing power the few times I really needed it. The radio and lack of title/artist was a faux pas here as was the lack of a power drivers seat. Am very excited to get my hands on a 2013 model for an extended road trip to see if newer is indeed better. All I can say is Nissan, ya done good here!

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,680
    edited February 2013
    On my ratings scale, I've given today's contestant, a 2011 Nissan Altima S an 8.5 as it was a very good driving car and was hard pressed to tell that it had just a tad over 26k on the clock. I explained a few of my likes and dislikes in the previous post. I've given the Hyundai Elantra a 9.5 on my ratings scale because though it's not quite the perfect vehicle, it comes damn close...for the price, there's a whole bunch of goodness here and this is only the GLS model. Not sure if it has the "preferred package" as I don't know what extra's come with it but it's a perfect rental choice...it does everything right! Definitely has that import look of late which is pleasing and is instantly recognizable as a Hyundai with it's "fluidic styling" though some may not find it as pleasing as I did. The view out the rear is better than I thought even with the triple rear headrests, the sloping of the rear window is misleading in that I had good vision out the back. The controls work as intended with a pleasing purplish hue and the wheel, though plasticy, felt good in my hands and was pretty meaty, something I prefer in a steering wheel. I'd prefer a leather wheel but I am assuming that the Limited version has this covered. The seats were comfortable and not overly firm and I felt like I was sitting "in" them instead of "on" them...and there is a difference here. The material is just o k, I prefer a grippier cloth like the new Altima has but what is standard here works. I'm sure this will be addressed next year with the mid cycle refresh. The a/c works nicely and keeps the cabin comfortably cool in fact all the controls work with a nice tactile feel which put a smile on my face.
    Sitting in the rear, I had plenty of room though I wished the seat bottom was raised just a tad higher. I think three in the back would be fine for a short trip but two would definitely be the better choice. There's a whole lot of goodness in this car and it reminds me of Honda but Honda from two decades ago when they were fun cars to drive. This is a fun car to toss around and I never felt like it was underpowered even when passing is required. The kick down wasn't too abrupt but not as smooth as some other cars but nothing to cause any concern at all. This is a well thought out and constructed product and I commented to a co-worker that this was probably going to be the next vehicle on my side of the garage...I like it that much! I would definitely want the preffered package as I must have alloys on any future vehicle I own...steelies and bolt on covers will no longer do. Although I like a sunroof, not sure if I'd spring the extra cash for the Limited model but if someone has to have the sunroof and larger and somewhat nicer alloys, this would be money well spent.
    Great job Hyundai and hoping that the refresh will add some nice changes. I've seen pictures of the new Kia Forte, the fraternal twin of the Elantra, and can not wait to run them back to back to see how different they are. I prefer the Elantra's looks but from what I've read, the Forte will be a force to reckon with and have exceptional optional add-ons like a power drivers seat, something I think every car should have. As much as I lust for the 3 Series or C Class, my two dream vehicles, this is one car I'd be very proud to own and if I weren't the frugal and logical person I am, I'd have one sitting at home right now...I'd proudly turn in my low mileage '06 Civic on this puppy tomorrow!
    Look for my review of the 2013 Ford Focus coming to this Edmunds forum soon.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,661
    Great write up as always Sandy!

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH, 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L 4WD

  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,680
    Thanks but need to work on paragraphs and punctuation. These need to be readable. Off to start my long week!

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • breldbreld Posts: 1,325
    So the Hyundai website advertises the following lease deal on a base Elantra GT auto:

    $179/month for 24 months, $2,499 down. Reviewing the details and backing into the terms, that comes out to a "purchase price" of MSRP ($20,340), cap cost reduction of $2,320, residual of 75% and an interest rate equivalent of 2.85%.

    I assume if nothing else, you can negotiate down that cap cost off of MSRP and thus reduce the down payment.

    For those more familiar with leases, how do those terms hit you?

    2011 BMW 535xi - 2015 GTI - 2008 A3 - 2009 Ody

  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,322
    Adding the 2500 into the lease makes it about $280 per month. You will also want to roll in the sales tax into the payment. The gold standard for evaluating leases is Taking 2 zeros off the msrp for a 36 month lease before taxes. If the msrp is 20k then you want to be as close to $200 per month. On 24 month leases, have no idea how to evaluate. I think the GT is a hot seller so I doubt you can get a smoking lease on one. Honda Pilots and VW Passats are great now -- easy to get to that goal but the heart wants what the heart wants.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2013
    Now I wonder if the tires had way too much pressure in them on the GT I drove? The Limited sedan was fine with the same tires.

    The base model had heated seats, so it's well equipped, but no pano roof stand-alone option like Ford has.
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