Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

1101310141016101810191314

Comments

  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    When I had the displeasure of working at a GM dealer for a couple days last year I checked out the Verano we had on the showroom floor and was quite impressed. The driver's seat was among the softest and cushiest and most of any car I sat in (very very comfortable and I did not want to get out of it). The Sales Manager said that if Buick would be called Opel or something else, they'd sell a ton more. The cars are nice but most people under 40 think of Buicks as cars for grandpas and grandmas and for the money prefer something less geriatric sounding.

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 326
    One other thing on the Verano, it had the fixed glass panel in the A pillar. Not sure why they think that's a good idea. It didn't work on the 1992 Lumina APV and it doesn't work today.
  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 326
    Your description of the Buick is perfect, appliances with a little extra. The Verano I drove had power seats but the driving position wasn't comfortable. It wasn't bad, but not something I'd buy. And I definitely wouldn't pay what they are asking for either model. If I was writing a check I'd give them $20k tops for the Verano and $28k tops for the Regal that was loaded up.
  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 326
    Agreed, while i think the exterior styling could be sleeker, the Buick name just doesn't have the credibility GM needs to be successful. No one under 60 "wants" a Buick. Like my coworker who rode in the Regal, she liked the car but she'll never buy a Buick....simply because it's a Buick.
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,636
    Yep, my thoughts exactly. I wouldn't pay any more for the Verano than for my Civic LX. I'd be happy to buy the Buick if it will be just as good as the imports but sadly, they are not. this was proven to me at a stop light the other day. A gray haired pulled up nest to me in a Verano, looked real nice but I noticed a small trim piece of chrome on the front door mis-aligned...it was so obvious but no one at the Buick plant caught it, no quality control person saw it, reported it or fixed it. To let it out of the facility like that just shows the lack of commitment of GM to making the finest product for the money. This little incident of which most would not have even noticed, I did and if it were my car, well, I would have chosen another car on the lot or have made them fix it before i took delivery. Call me anal, crazy whatever...when i plunk down that much cash on a product, it had better have no defects or any problems at all. If it does, fix it before hand so i get an almost perfect product as there are many more similar products out there in the market place that take quality control seriously!

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,567
    I think I have seen one or two Veranos, that's it. A few more Regals, but still a rare car. I had a Regal rental in ATL, not a turbo but still nice, a German-made one, beat 30mpg on the highway, which was nice.
  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 326
    Right or wrong that's why the market gravitates to Honda and Toyota instead of the domestics. If the big three want to be competitive they have to produce a quality product and a head turning product. I only say the latter because they have to dig themselves out of a hole (which they dug themselves). Build a stunning product to get people in the showrooms and build it rock solid so they'll forget about Camcordnatas.

    Ford built a stunning car with the new Fusion, they need to make it hold up and initial reports indicate it may not. GM might have a car that will hold up but it's not stunning. Chrysler/Fiat, keep trying. The new Dart and GC aren't bad looking but rebuilding goodwill is like nailing jello to a tree.
  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 326
    Completely agree, if I were writing a check today I'd take your Civic over a new Buick anyday. I stand by my comment that the new GM cars aren't bad, but they certainly aren't competitive.
  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 326
    Not surprised on the Verano. As you discovered, the Regal isn't a bad car, but there are much better options in that price range. If it was $5 -7k less it might be a good buy.

    GM set their sights too high and forgot how bad they burned consumers. I read somewhere that Buick touts the average age of their buyer has decreased. Typical GM thinking, so what if you decreased age by 5 years, appeal to younger consumers with the Regal/Verano or you'll be bankrupt again. No one under 60 who is looking for an entry level luxury car will cross shop Buick with an Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, etc. Forget what Buick WAS and build a better brand to get the consumers you're targeting.
  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    the new GM cars aren't bad, but they certainly aren't competitive.

    Not to mention a Civic will be worth a few times more than a Buick in 5-10 years.

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,287
    I am sure I have seen plenty, but they make so little of an impression on me, I doubt I even noticed them.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • corvettecorvette United StatesPosts: 4,086
    "One other thing on the Verano, it had the fixed glass panel in the A pillar. Not sure why they think that's a good idea. It didn't work on the 1992 Lumina APV and it doesn't work today."

    There was an article on TTAC today about this very sort of issue:
    DLO fail
  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 326
    I agree, and while value is somewhat based on perception the numbers are what they are for a reason. It takes time for the pendulum to swing, so if GM and Ford are truly building better vehicles it will take time to change public opinion. Too many of us grew up in the 80's and experienced the junk Detroit pushed out and then saw our parents move to imports and get the quality that was non-existent in the American models. It takes time to rebuild trust, and probably some luck along the way.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,567
    I agree about GM setting their sights too high. Regal (Opel Insignia) is not an upmarket car in Europe - think of it as a German Malibu/Impala. Trying to make it something higher here was a dangerous game, and has probably failed. As well, Europe gets wagons and tuned versions to improve brand equity - we have neither.

    A nice car, but well-equipped, gets in the neighborhood of legitimate premium brands, and that's dangerous.
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,636
    Tried a new Dart the other day and while it's a nice looking thing and the seat was more comfortable than I thought it would be, still not class leading in so many ways. Every day after work, I get back into my Civic with just over 37k and think to myself...this ain't that bad considering it's almost 7 years old! And it ain't and it still gets great mileage to boot. Someone at work thinks it's brand new and now with the new headliner, it feels that way. So to buy new right now is foolish, wasteful and illogical. The $ that's coming my way shortly will go into retirement accounts and muni bonds as the wife wants and maybe purchase some stock that i want but no new vehicle for The Sandman at this juncture!

    Also agree that GM needs to make cars the public wants to buy...good looking, economical fun vehicles that show quality like Lexus, Acura and the other imports. The, and only then will GM, Ford and Chrysler become the company's that they can be. It's doable, absolutely!

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 326
    Wish I could say I was disappointed about your Dart experience but I'm not surprised. As to your Civic, a friend of mine had a 2006 EX coupe and he drove the hell out of it. Last time I drove it there was about 160k on the clock and I was amazed at how well it drove and how tight it was. My parents had a 2002 Camry with over 225k on it that was the same, solid and quiet. Neither were perfect but they were light years ahead of any domestic or Korean car I've been in with a quarter of the miles.

    When the itch becomes too great let me know, I want your Civic. :)
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,636
    My son already has dibs but you'll be 2nd if he changes his mind. People know I take pretty good care of my vehicles, and now we have four with the girls in the herd. I take care of them all, service them and make sure things are up to date. They both know that when the time comes, I'll just take 'em to my guy and the necessary things will get done. But it's my pleasure as my kids are our life, we put their needs first and love 'em to death and besides loving them, we also like them, something I don't think my parents ever cared about. My parenting style is different. So of course I treat their cars like my own...keep 'em serviced and clean.

    Like I said, the Dart drove nicely and was somewhat comfortable. Not sure I'd buy one except if the price was such that it would be a no brainer. Even the mini van I drove the other day was a comfortable driver, smooth and all but a bit top heavy and when I took one to Tampa and it was windy, just didn't like the way it got pushed around on the interstate. But great seats and nice fabric make for a comfortable seat. The real sleeper of the bunch has been the Chrysler 200...I had a top of the line one on Friday and it was very impressive to say the least. Even the two other mid level one's were very nice...comfortable, smooth and great acceleration put a smile on my face...it drives like a much larger vehicle. Waiting to try the mid sized Dodge Avenger and it's siblings. Someone else got to it before me on Friday but hopefully I'll get a turn very soon. Again, these domestics are not something I'd look to purchase unless the deal was such that it would be so stupid not to, meaning if the car sold for a ridiculous discount. Let's be honest, any vehicle can get ya from point A to point B...it's the creature comforts that make it what it is, and of course the way the vehicle rides.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    I'm sure the LaCrosse is nice, but I would never cross shop it against the Lexus ES. It's apples and oranges,

    IDK I found the Lacrosse was more car and had equal interior materials and refinement than the previous generation ES. It was every bit if not quieter and the technology was pretty much equal. The Lacrosse also is larger inside.

    I do prefer the Toyota 3.5 to the Generals 3.6. It is just a tad nicer at high RPM and makes a little more torque down low.

    I haven't been in the new ES yet, so I can't comment there.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 326
    You're one of the few who actually took the time to make the comparison. In initial look and feel the Buick holds its own. I can't compare the ES to the LaCrosse because I haven't drive them lately. GM needs to get the 30/40-something crowd excited about their products. Right now Buick isn't on the radar for younger/middle aged buyers. Until they give the target market a reason to stop by the Buick dealership they'll continue to struggle. Lincoln is in the same boat, only they have more holes in the bottom of the boat.

    Both companies need to build a game changer and neither of them have that in the works. Put today's equivalent of a 1961 Continental or a late '60's Eldorado on the market and they might have a chance. The ATS might be a step in the right direction but it's throwing water at a forest fire.
  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 326
    Exactly, what does the Regal compete with? It reminds me of the Maxima in a way, a good car in its own but not directly competitive with anything.

    And while I get cashing in on brand heritage, a Regal wasn't the pinnacle of GM's success for today's market. Who draws on experience and aspires to buy a Regal??

    It's a tough road ahead for GM but they can't blame anyone but themselves. If you know how to build a good car, which they might, then get a marketing department who can persuade buyers to come back. The brand equity is long dead, they have to reinvent themselves. It doesn't matter if you have a great product if no one knows about it.

    Perception is reality, like it or not.
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,636
    Agree here, my folks fell into this category in 1968 and bought an Eldorado and then another Toronado...great coupes with features that folks in their 40's really wanted. The Eldo was blue vinyl over blue...a very stunning automobile! I crashed it into the garage once while I was learning to drive right after the folks left for a month in Spain...oh well, life did go on. But great looking car and a blast to drive. Even the Toronado's were a heap of fun...big suckers for coupes but fun to drive.

    Liked the Lacrosse we looked at yesterday...had a classy looking dash and nice looking fabric. A big car for sure but between that and an Es350, no question I'd go with the Lexus in a heartbeat...it just says "class" so much more than the Buick and it's probably put together with more care. We used to be a Toyota family, had four over the years, and loved them all. It's just that the other guys caught up in quality and refinement so we jumped ship. Now we go with whomever has what we are looking for. And right now value, great mileage and the best warranty are what we want but not in that specific order. As we discussed at dinner earlier, the Mazda stays as long as it behaves...she won't buy a 2013 model so we have to wait. If the a/c goes, then I have to fix it as she's decided not to use the kid's Accent for a long period of time. So it'll have to be fixed which just means the car stays that much longer and maybe she'll go for a 2015 and we'll see 200k on the clock. Wouldn't be the worst case scinerio(?) in the world and this way we'd save more cash. But time will tell and we'll buy when and what kind when she decides, not me.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • corvettecorvette United StatesPosts: 4,086
    The Maxima has a tough row to hoe now that the 2013 Altima has updated technology like a color display in the instrument cluster.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,567
    Regal might have fared better becoming a Malibu than something with more upmarket dreams. But production costs are probably too much for something destined for fleets - no doubt that would be true if they wore a "W" VIN. Of course, making the Malibu not a fleet queen might help that. I also agree that for aspirational customers today, the name "Regal" doesn't hold much clout.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,567
    Fun article. The oversized greenhouse/black panel is one thing that makes the Prius and Lexus HS awkward to my eyes.
  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    Nothing at Buick really interests me these days and I'm probably their target demographic they'd like to have as a customer.

    I was busy playing Legos with my son today when an ad for the new Buick Encore (crossover) came on. I wasn't paying attention until I heard the announcer saying it's a new kind of luxury crossover yada yada yada. When I looked up to see what they're talking about I almost lost it because all I saw was a bloated hatchback with chrome wheels and Buick grille. Definetly not something I'd want at any price. Looks very cartoonish:

    image

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,567
    Cartoony is a good way to describe it, and it has that black triangle in front of the front door glass, too. The whole thing gives me a definite Chinese vibe as well - and I don't mean that in a good way.
  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    Feels tight and uncomfortable just by looking at it. Like a 4 door smart car suv on steroids almost.

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 326
    Completely agree with both sentiments. And boomcheck you're spot on with the comment about being the customer the want (need), but they definitely aren't appealing to that demographic.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    Liked the Lacrosse we looked at yesterday...had a classy looking dash and nice looking fabric. A big car for sure but between that and an Es350, no question I'd go with the Lexus in a heartbeat...it just says "class" so much more than the Buick and it's probably put together with more care

    You mention "fabric" I don't think it is fair to compare what apparently is a base model LaCrosse to a high line PIII/Touring model. There is a big difference.

    Lexus makes a fine automobile, no doubt. I've owned my share of Toyotas and all served me well. IMHO the LaCrosse is a better car (and a much better value) than the outgoing ES. The new ES has probably caught up, but I haven't compared it. I know that Lexus better be careful as from what I'm reading both here on Edmunds and elsewhere is that they have firmed up the ride quite a bit. There are some loyalists who are not happy. Heck there is a member here who bought a 2013 Avalon (which ES is now based on) and traded it within a few thousand miles because of the harsh ride.

    RE: Encore,
    I have to agree on that particular Buick. I don't get it. If anything why didn't they just badge engineer the Equinox/Terrian/SRX into a Buick? They do it with everything else.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,206
    These continue to tempt me!

    But that transmission, as good as it is reported to be for performance, scares the hell out of me for the frequency of clutch changes (every 20k!). Why can't I find one like this with a stick? Arg!

    And, believe it or not, that one is still overpriced. I should be able to score that for $22-23k. And that is the cheapest one I found with those miles. Others were $30k.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

Sign In or Register to comment.