Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

fintail

Heated seats are wonderful on a 43F rainy day.

suydam

stickguy said:

They seem pointless to me with cloth seats, but I have never actually tried that set up. Very useful with leather though!

We had a Subaru Forester with heated cloth seats. Car was parked outside, and on a 10 degree morning they were wonderful.

nyccarguy

28firefighter said:

My GTI has cloth seats with heating - it has 3 settings - Warm, Hot, and Scorched Earth.

I do use it on cooler mornings here in the PNW, usually when the temperature is less than 50 degrees.

Speaking of the GTI, how's it driving? How's the MPG?

stever

I miss mine, even down here.

28firefighter

nyccarguy said:

28firefighter said:

My GTI has cloth seats with heating - it has 3 settings - Warm, Hot, and Scorched Earth.

I do use it on cooler mornings here in the PNW, usually when the temperature is less than 50 degrees.

Speaking of the GTI, how's it driving? How's the MPG?

Not well - averaging 14 MPG still by hand calculations in city driving 16-17 in mixed city highway. MFI says averaging 19 MPG.

Also, since they did the fuel tank recall, something is wonky with the fuel gauge. I'm waiting until the next fill-up to document what I'm seeing with photos so I don't have to argue with the VW dealer when I take it in. Basically, filling it up, the gauge will never show the tank is full.

I still love the car, though, which kills me. Anything else I would want is easily $15-$20k more.

stickguy

At least as your case moves forward, you could give them the easy out of just switching you into a new unit. Sometimes that is more pallitable to them for some reason.

28firefighter

stickguy said:

At least as your case moves forward, you could give them the easy out of just switching you into a new unit. Sometimes that is more pallitable to them for some reason.

Yes and no. Since I've started the lemon law process, I have to route any communication through the law firm. Means everything takes a bit longer.

ab348

tjc78 said:

I'll tell you one thing, heated cloth seats get hot quickly. The Elantra I swear you could cook an egg on the seat. I had never driven a car with heated cloth before.

Watch that. A couple of years ago, just before I retired, a fellow working for me had an '08 Elantra with heated cloth seats. He, his wife and their kids were driving to her parents about 200 miles away one day in the winter and the heated seats were on. As he told the story, his buns were nice and toasty but his wife complained of an dd smell. Then she saw smoke coming from his seat. The seat heaters set not only the drivers seat upholstery but his pants on fire, not blazing flames, but singed and charred. It was scary.

He pursued some sort of redress with Hyundai Canada and got something, though I'm unsure what.

qbrozen

Just perusing and spotted a lease deal on the ATS-V. I wonder what it would cost to get all 4 wheels included. ;b

sda

We've had several Hondas and an Acura with heated seats. What I find odd, probably cost savings, is on the passenger seat only the bottom cushion is heated not the seat back. I think current models have finally included the passenger seat back.

Michaell

Even though my car is the newest in the fleet, it still lives outside. At the moment, it is 27 outside (high of 38 predicted). So long as I live in Colorado, every car I get will have heated seats.

Would love to get a heated steering wheel, but that may be out of my budget.

graphicguy

stever said:

Thanks!

Anyone else have any buying strategies? (are you there @bobst? )

Stever....if you're talking BMWs, I'd stick with @Michaell number of 7% off MSRP, minus incentives. I shop BMWs a little bit. There are only two dealers in my 'burg, but they're both hyper competitive. You know the drill.....make an offer, and see who bites.

When I say "offer", that means the price I'm willing to pay for the car, all in.....including taxes, license and tag fees, PPI (if any, which there shouldn't be). They can try to add doc fees, as long as they don't affect your offer. Hide it wherever they want.

That's true of any dealership experience....one price, out the door....no add-ons!

Around here, Michaell is correct about Mercedes. There's a Mercedes dealer right on the other side of the river in KY. I've talked to them probably 4-5 times. His offer is the same....any vehicle on their lot is 10% off MSRP, no haggle. Not the best, but certainly a deal that's more than reasonable. Check if Edmunds gets another discount on top of that (my company does). It usually puts an MB well under invoice less holdback and incentives.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

a nice certified 2015, loaded to the gills. Perfect for me, 1 year and $10K from now!

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/673253899/overview/

So, I was just taking a look... a brand new 2017 is only $37k from truecar, so I can't make sense of $33.5k for a 2015 (and the price isn't even that unreasonable). And a NJ dealer has a garnet on chestnut with premium and premium plus sitting on the lot. Hmmmm....

thebean

ab348 said:

I'll tell you one thing, heated cloth seats get hot quickly. The Elantra I swear you could cook an egg on the seat. I had never driven a car with heated cloth before.

Watch that. A couple of years ago, just before I retired, a fellow working for me had an '08 Elantra with heated cloth seats. He, his wife and their kids were driving to her parents about 200 miles away one day in the winter and the heated seats were on. As he told the story, his buns were nice and toasty but his wife complained of an dd smell. Then she saw smoke coming from his seat. The seat heaters set not only the drivers seat upholstery but his pants on fire, not blazing flames, but singed and charred. It was scary. He pursued some sort of redress with Hyundai Canada and got something, though I'm unsure what.

I hope he didn't use the balm the Maestro gave him before showing the burn to Hyundai Canada.  

ab348

henryn said:

I have been driving the Passat every day (free miles, and unbelievable fuel mileage), but Saturday evening I had a date so drove the truck (newer, nicer). We leave the restaurant, and my date says she's cold. I offer to turn on the heater, even though it didn't seem the least bit cold to me. She said, "Never mind, I'll just turn on the seat warmer. I love heated seats!"

I was admit to fess up that I was too cheap to ever buy a truck with heated seats when lo and behold she turned on the seat heater. Or turned on something. I'm still not sure what, and I'm still fairly certain that this truck does not have heated seats.

Maybe it's my weakened state (I've been fighting a cold or something for 10 days now and still feel crummy) but this just amused me to no end.

Hope the date went well.

stickguy

Is that 37k for a comparable equipped? I just built one like that one I linked, and MSRP is over 45k.

corvette

qbrozen said:

Just perusing and spotted a lease deal on the ATS-V. I wonder what it would cost to get all 4 wheels included. ;b

I think all advertised lease deals should have to show the numbers with 0 down. 

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Is that 37k for a comparable equipped? I just built one like that one I linked, and MSRP is over 45k.

Oh, I didn't look at all the gadgets. I just put on Premium and Premium Plus. I did not add the tech package. Thing is, those kinds of things cost big bucks new, but not used. You are probably about $41k new if you want those features. The MSRP of my ideal model is just $40k.

stickguy

My local guy has a few garnets with those 2 packàges, +\- a few extras. Only thing missing I want is BLIS, but that requires $4,700 worth of extras. Nope, not doing that on a new.

40k sticker, so what, 35k takes it?

stickguy

Or 2 years from now, I buy it for 25 or less!

qbrozen

$37k is the truecar price.

But look at what is out there used. 2015s are near $30k at auction. To get down to that $25k range, you gotta go 4 years old. That is some strong resale value, hence me rethinking the whole used route.

As my wife says, I'll want something else inside of 2 years. So can I get a 2017 and be out in 2 years? I'm not sure. Sigh. Decisions decisions.

qbrozen

On the other other other hand, I put on a buttload of miles. If in just 3 years, I'm at 60k miles on a new one, the resale won't be anywhere near what I'm looking at for a 2014 with 30k like I could buy now instead.

stever

Well, it fits in the garage even if we need an automatic parking gizmo.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

On the other other other hand, I put on a buttload of miles. If in just 3 years, I'm at 60k miles on a new one, the resale won't be anywhere near what I'm looking at for a 2014 with 30k like I could buy now instead.

I responded to your post in the QX50 lease discussion.

stever

@graphicguy, thanks. I would have guessed less for the MB percentage.

Everything helps (we get more Honda and Toyota quote requests though).

Michaell

stever said:

@graphicguy, thanks. I would have guessed less for the MB percentage.

Everything helps (we get more Honda and Toyota quote requests though).

You could brute force it and review the comments and requests from the last few months and calculate the percentage discount by hand. At least gives you a starting point.

stever

Good idea. Wonder if we could farm that out to some IT person in India....

I've sort of been doing that with TMV and then assuming TMV is an average, trying to guess how much more room there is to go with a higher percentage off.

Michaell

stever said:

Well, it fits in the garage even if we need an automatic parking gizmo.

Hey, a punch for @stever! Congrats!

You plan on keeping the van?

Michaell

stever said:

Good idea. Wonder if we could farm that out to some IT person in India....

I've sort of been doing that with TMV and then assuming TMV is an average, trying to guess how much more room there is to go with a higher percentage off.

It would be a bit of effort to extract the prices from all the text, but I suppose it could be done ... does Edmunds have tech folks overseas?

stever

Don't get ahead of me - we made a low counteroffer and they let us take it home for the day.

It's missing adaptive cruise, the parallel parking thing and ventilated seats. Otherwise it has everything, including the heated wheel and changing the radio by yelling at it. The roof rack brought back memories (including wind noise, lol). Probably won't keep that.

roadburner

I' drove an X1 today with a heated steering wheel and it became almost too hot to hold. I was testing it at around 55F so I'll bet that it works really well at 0F.

stickguy

QB, I know you are focused on low miles, but I would do the opposite. Something like the $13k 2010 with 70,000 miles. Put on 20/year, and in your 2 year (max) attention span, only be up to 110,000. And CL it for what, 8k? The drivetrain is pretty bulletproof, so good chance you get 2 reliable, cheap years for roughly $200/month.

If you pay a premium for low miles, when you sell, that would have disappeared, so probably a bigger hit.

Plus, on the old one, could always keep it as a spare/winter/beater unit!

Michaell

stever said:

Don't get ahead of me - we made a low counteroffer and they let us take it home for the day.

It's missing adaptive cruise, the parallel parking thing and ventilated seats. Otherwise it has everything, including the heated wheel and changing the radio by yelling at it. The roof rack brought back memories (including wind noise, lol). Probably won't keep that.

I knew it was too good to be true.

How important are those features to you?

jpp75

28firefighter said:

I still love the car, though, which kills me. Anything else I would want is easily $15-$20k more.

Same here, the local VW dealer couldn't guarantee me a loaner so I didn't take the Touareg in yesterday. I'd dump it today if I didn't love it so much and if I had something else I loved as much as the Touareg.

jpp75

stever said:

Don't get ahead of me - we made a low counteroffer and they let us take it home for the day.

It's missing adaptive cruise, the parallel parking thing and ventilated seats. Otherwise it has everything, including the heated wheel and changing the radio by yelling at it. The roof rack brought back memories (including wind noise, lol). Probably won't keep that.

Is this the $35k one you posted earlier? I like the blue.

tifighter

stever said:

Don't get ahead of me - we made a low counteroffer and they let us take it home for the day.

It's missing adaptive cruise, the parallel parking thing and ventilated seats. Otherwise it has everything, including the heated wheel and changing the radio by yelling at it. The roof rack brought back memories (including wind noise, lol). Probably won't keep that.

@stever You seem to keep your cars a long time, so get the loaded one. Adaptive cruise is great and last time I was in NM, I'd have been very happy to have ventilated seats.

xwesx

slorenzen said:

stever said:

I just switched to sweats and packed my shorts two weeks ago. The vents feel pretty good wearing our usual attire of T's and shorts eight or so months out of the year.

It's freezing out today, the high barely grazed 58° and it was overcast most of the day. So yeah, the heated steering wheel is on the wish list too.

(lol @houdini1, maybe I'll try that tomorrow, subbing a checkbook for a fistful)

"It's freezing out today, the high barely grazed 58° and it was overcast most of the day."

I may need to drive down there and hurt you. We haven't broken 50 for several days...

If it makes you feel any better, it is -30 here today! But, it should be a balmy -5 by the weekend.....

Mr_Shiftright

adaptive cruise---in New Mexico? Certainly not badly needed.
parallel parking-- just silly
ventilated seats--might be nice in your climate, but you're not humid, so you could live without.

graphicguy

stever said:

Good idea. Wonder if we could farm that out to some IT person in India....

I've sort of been doing that with TMV and then assuming TMV is an average, trying to guess how much more room there is to go with a higher percentage off.

Honda Accords should be $500 over invoice....all day, every day with no crazy doc fees (at least not around me). Civics may take a little more to sweeten the pot given the delta between invoice and MSRP is pretty skinny.

I saw someone post a dealer offering $5K+ off Acura TLXs, so there's some trunk money there we don't know about. That should be a good starting point.

It's been a while since I bought a Toyota, so not sure what the market is on those....I would imagine Camry and Corolla can get skinny deals ($500 or less over invoice less incentives). Trucks and SUVs probably demand a bit more over invoice, though.

If I'm at an impass, and the dealer is within a couple hundred of my offer, I ask for "gimmes"......winter floor mats, Trunk trays, etc.

graphicguy

Love me some heated seats. I'm in Orlando, now. But flew out of CVG early yesterday in 40 degree weather. Auto Climate heats my seats, sets the temp exactly where I like it, and I actually turned on the steering wheel heater...no burns here.

kyfdx

graphicguy said:

Love me some heated seats. I'm in Orlando, now. But flew out of CVG early yesterday in 40 degree weather. Auto Climate heats my seats, sets the temp exactly where I like it, and I actually turned on the steering wheel heater...no burns here.

You left too soon... it's gorgeous, today.

xwesx

graphicguy said:

Love me some heated seats. I'm in Orlando, now. But flew out of CVG early yesterday in 40 degree weather. Auto Climate heats my seats, sets the temp exactly where I like it, and I actually turned on the steering wheel heater...no burns here.

The Passat does a lot of auto-tuning when I use the auto-start on it.

I hate that the auto-start shuts the car down the moment I unlock the doors (stupid design, IMO) rather than being a little more tolerant and waiting for me to at least have the key in range of the ignition sensor (or step on the brake, whichever is first). It causes unnecessary start/stop wear on the engine and electrical systems, if nothing else.

The flip side, though, is that the car turns on a lot of accessory systems like defrosters (mirrors and front/rear windows) and seat heaters, all depending on the ambient temperature. So, that's pretty neat. If you let it run for nearly the full cycle (20 min) before getting in it, the interior almost feels like it was sitting in the garage instead of outside!

stickguy

if you can't parallel park something as short and stubby as an Encore, they should pull your license and get you off the road.

xwesx

stickguy said:

QB, I know you are focused on low miles, but I would do the opposite. Something like the $13k 2010 with 70,000 miles. Put on 20/year, and in your 2 year (max) attention span, only be up to 110,000. And CL it for what, 8k? The drivetrain is pretty bulletproof, so good chance you get 2 reliable, cheap years for roughly $200/month.

If you pay a premium for low miles, when you sell, that would have disappeared, so probably a bigger hit.

Plus, on the old one, could always keep it as a spare/winter/beater unit!

Agreed, Michael. I think picking up a car with average miles or more will end up being the most beneficial. That said, if Q does want to let it go a couple years down the road, I've noticed that all cars seem to take a hit once they break that "magical" 100,000-mile mark, so that may be worth considering.

Q, you already analyzed it yourself a few months back when you were talking about used, low-mileage cars versus buying new. Even if you go ultra-low mileage and take that depreciation hit by selling it at average or slightly over upon resale, you still come out ahead of buying new.

suydam

stever said:

Don't get ahead of me - we made a low counteroffer and they let us take it home for the day.

It's missing adaptive cruise, the parallel parking thing and ventilated seats. Otherwise it has everything, including the heated wheel and changing the radio by yelling at it. The roof rack brought back memories (including wind noise, lol). Probably won't keep that.

Mine has a roof rack and it isn't noisy. I don't have those options either, but I really like the rear cross traffic alert and blind spot warning. Speaking of which, I've been perusing the Lexus CT200h. In 2017 it doesn't have these things? That's a deal breaker for me.
I will be interested to hear your review. Having it for a day is really nice.

stickguy

there are still a lot of cars, including many premium brand (and expensive) ones, where blind spot monitoring is either not available, or a very expensive option (often requiring a top of range model, then an expensive tech package).

xwesx

stickguy said:

there are still a lot of cars, including many premium brand (and expensive) ones, where blind spot monitoring is either not available, or a very expensive option (often requiring a top of range model, then an expensive tech package).

That's just the manufacturer's way of reminding its customers how unnecessary those things are....

qbrozen

xwesx said:

stickguy said:

QB, I know you are focused on low miles, but I would do the opposite. Something like the $13k 2010 with 70,000 miles. Put on 20/year, and in your 2 year (max) attention span, only be up to 110,000. And CL it for what, 8k? The drivetrain is pretty bulletproof, so good chance you get 2 reliable, cheap years for roughly $200/month.

If you pay a premium for low miles, when you sell, that would have disappeared, so probably a bigger hit.

Plus, on the old one, could always keep it as a spare/winter/beater unit!

Agreed, Michael. I think picking up a car with average miles or more will end up being the most beneficial. That said, if Q does want to let it go a couple years down the road, I've noticed that all cars seem to take a hit once they break that "magical" 100,000-mile mark, so that may be worth considering.

Q, you already analyzed it yourself a few months back when you were talking about used, low-mileage cars versus buying new. Even if you go ultra-low mileage and take that depreciation hit by selling it at average or slightly over upon resale, you still come out ahead of buying new.

Well of course I did! But more delays = more analyzing. haha. More on that in a second.

Michaell

Speaking of miles, my sister is still on the hunt for a car for her middle son, who turned 16 earlier this month. She's been texting me a bunch of different things, most with a lot of miles on them.

Of course, since son #1 inherited dad's 330i ZHP, he feels he should get something similar. So my sister asked about a Lexus IS300 with 170,000 miles on it. I think she's going in the wrong direction.

Sandman6472

I also wanted the Lexus CT 200h but they were all very noisy for some reason. Tried new and used and all made the same noise which really bothered us. Also, a bit tight inside to be honest and I'm on the slim side and around 5'7", give or take. We're a bit pricey to but it's a Lexus so makes sense. Liked the Encore and if going domestic, would choose it. All about the size of my Golf which is my preferred size. Still haven't tested the HR-V yet but love the interior except no knobs, a real negative for me.
Had heated seats in the Tucson and loved them, think the Golf has 'em but not really sure. Will hit 25K shortly and no warranty so will just take my chances. Still have the Tiguan in my short list and might end up with a cpo unit in the next year or two. Would make a perfect retirement vehicle especially if we do some cross country trips though the Encore and HR-V would also work.

The Sandman

(P.S. Typing from my new Apple tablet, iPad Air. My Thanksgiving day gift to me. My p c officially died so got one of these instead of a new desktop)