Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

stickguy

I could get away with a 3. We looked in the past, and the wife thought it was a little narrow up front. But we both got skinnier, so who knows? I just need to stop asking her.

I actually use my car for most trips, unless we need the extra space in the back. Put very few miles on it usually, and don't really want to use it as the roadtrip car. But my wife likes it. I don't really need something as big as the Sonata or an Accord, but it is not that big of a deal.

the 2018 VWs could be an option, but won't be out for a while, so definitely would be a one car family for a while. Really not sure how that will work!

I actually enjoyed the Jetta. Maybe it was the stick? Should probably drive an AT to make sure!

Leasing this last one was all about cashflow with college going on. Thankfully only 1 more payment, but it will be a while before save up enough for a decent DP. so a buy now will either be a used car, or cheaper new car. Start getting too fancy, and back on the lease train. Though not really a big problem I guess, to get something nice.

Don't sell the elantra short. It is a blast to drive.

benjaminh

Another possible option—a 2017 Civic EX-Turbo with the 6-speed manual. My local dealer has one for listed for $20,900 without even negotiating, which means maybe 20k flat is possible. This is sort-of an Si for c. $4000 or so less. Similar engine. Similar car. Similar equipment. But it costs less, takes regular gas, and would be less to insure. Seems to be about the same in price as a Mazda 3 with the same level of equipment, and in fact maybe less. Has moonroof, AndroidAuto/CarPlay, pushbutton start/smart entry, heated mirrors, XM, heated seats, remote start (great feature in the winter), heated front seats, fog lights, dual zone climate control, etc. Same size as an Accord from 20 years ago. Only trouble is no blis, but it does have Lanewatch. Honda has 0.9 financing for 60 months on these, which comes to about $300 a month with a modest downpayment. Leasing might be more like $200?? Not sure....

benjaminh

stickguy said:

...

Don't sell the elantra short. It is a blast to drive.

If the Elantra is a blast, then definitely consider it. Probably there are financial incentives for staying with Hyundai. And if you like the Jetta, go for it! Don't less us convince you otherwise. With the turbo is a good car for the money.

Michaell

@stickguy - I'm biased, but I'll push the Jetta on you. Do you really want another Hyundai? Would you replace the RDX with another Acura? Variety is the spice of life.

If you can stomach the looks, the Civic EX-T might be something to consider. Not sure if you can get down to $200/mo on a lease, but under $250 seems doable. I also like the Mazda 3 - all trim levels available with the stick.

breld

I drove a Civic EX-T manual awhile back to get a feel for the Civic Si before its release.  It was a nice ride - I believe @stickguy wasn’t a fan of the seats.  But definitely a great buy as pointed out by @benjaminh.

Used Mazda6 Touring manual seems to be a great buy - I recall seeing them in the $16-17k range with reasonable miles. Better overall ride than the Mazda3, but a bit less nimble of course.

Saw a new Elantra GT in a nice blue today - very sharp.  

benjaminh

Car and Driver on the Elantra Sport....

"Based on these specs, the Elantra Sport makes a case for consideration alongside sport-compact veterans such as Honda’s Civic Si and Volkswagen’s Golf GTI. Our manual-transmission test car scooted to 60 mph in 6.6 seconds, stuck to our skidpad at an impressive 0.91 g, and stopped from 70 mph in 161 feet. Those numbers are neck and neck with the Civic Si sedan’s—well, the previous-generation Honda Civic Si’s. We have yet to test a 2017 Si sedan, but the two-door Si edges the Hyundai to 60 mph by 0.3 second, outgrips it, and outbrakes it. The more powerful VW GTI is a less fair comparison, being 0.7 second quicker to 60 mph and just as sticky as the new Civic....

The Elantra Sport’s performance numbers and its ride composure are the closest this car gets to the Si and the GTI, though, as the key controls aren’t as satisfying as those of the Honda or VW. Zero road feel makes its way through the chunky steering wheel. More understeer is in evidence here, as the Elantra will more often fail to turn as much as you want it to. The six-speed shifter suffers long throws and vague engagement, and the clutch is nearly as uncommunicative....

Hyundai aimed for sporty with an all-black interior but hit dour instead. Even the interior door handles are made from black plastic. The rest of the monochromatic cabin is otherwise identical to other Elantra sedans, which is to say understated and functional, but all versions of the Civic, Golf, and Mazda 3 have plusher, nicer-looking innards....

The Premium package puts the Elantra $110 above the similarly equipped 2017 Honda Civic Si sedan. Hyundai has drawn closer than ever before to cracking the sport-compact code with this sedan, but it’s not that close. Yet."

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-hyundai-elantra-sport-manual-test-review

tbirdmarco

@stickguy that is shore quite the list! would personally go with the Mosda 3 or 6 Jetta would not personally go with an nother Hundai that is simeler to the car you have now but an smaller virzion! MR2 would be nice but 2 dors and small for an daly driver don't no! VW Pasat could be an nice road trip car to!

benjaminh

Kelley Blue Book—10 Coolest New Cars Under $18K
1. Mazda3
2. Civic...

"The all-time champion of this annual list makes its 14th appearance in a row, seated in its familiar perch at the top of the heap. The Mazda3 is widely regarded as the best-looking and most fun-to-drive vehicle in the segment, and we call it one of the coolest compact cars of all time."

https://www.kbb.com/car-reviews-and-news/top-10/coolest-new-cars-under-18000/2100004174-1/

@stickguy

Seems like the main thing about your current Sonata is that it's not a fun car to drive. Most things are going to be more fun than a 2015 Sonata, since it's almost dead last among sedans on that score. But the Mazda3 is going to be at the top in terms of fun-to-drive and stylish, and even with some options is going to come in well under your $25k target budget. If you can find a leftover 2017, you could save big, although I don't think there are that many of those left. Mazdas are quite reliable in my experience, and I wouldn't have any problem owning a new one past the warranty. In other words, even if you decide to buy to get off of the leasing merry go round, I would avoid the added expense of the extra warranty. Just a thought....

tbirdmarco

@stickguy have to think of what elce might work for you! that beamer is nice but quite an few years old and will have sum neads or have sum down the road being an used car!

benjaminh

My local dealer has a 2017 Mazda3 Sport 5-door hatchback with the 6-speed manual for 18k....

https://www.oxmoormazda.com/inventory/new-2017-mazda-mazda3-sport-fwd-5d-hatchback-3mzbn1k78hm153225

Soul Red metallic, push button start, etc.

MSRP $21,320
Discounts $1,358
Rebates $2,000
Oxmoor Price $17,962

Again, just a thought....

benjaminh

But, on the other hand, a Jetta with the 1.4 turbo is going to be faster than the Mazda3 with the 2.0. In the real world, that counts for a lot in terms of driving fun. And you just can't beat the Jetta in terms of value. A new 2017 Jetta at a c. $16k street price is a new car for almost the price of some used cars. Great mpg. BLIS. And more fun to drive than your Sonata.

I take it all back re the Jetta. I think that might be the car for you. Are 2-year leases available? If so, maybe consider that, and then you can maybe get something else after that....?

stickguy

Man, you people certainly are pushing for me to get a stick! Most likely if I go that way, would lean heavier toward the Jetta. I think at this point have decided to just go ahead and get the AT. Will make car sharing much easier.

Let's see as to these ideas. The Civic, I want to love, but really hated the base manual seats. Though I sometimes over-analyze these things. But I have learned from experience If I have to twist my own arm, it rarely ends well.

and for some of these options, they are missing a key feature like the moonroof. But I probably should look at the 3 again, but not sure if it would real world be much cheaper than a 6.

The Elantra sport, I liked it a lot more than that review did. Fun, quick, lots of goodies. Though I drove the DSG version (worked well in that car). I could buy a new 2018 today for $20,500 +TTL. If I wanted to. Lease is not quite as strong on that one.

My only incentive for Hyundai is $ really. Save $400 turn in fee, and I think there is a $500 valued customer incentive of some kind. But in the end, just part of the overall analysis, and I would rather spend a little more (well, I don't want to but might be forced to!) to get something I actually want this time. Sonata is a very nice car, and did a great job for us, but this time I want something different.

stickguy

I did though put Mazda dealer back on list of places to take the wife to. Just to see.

kyfdx

They still have lease programs on the 2017 Elantra GT (unlike other 2017 Elantras)

benjaminh

stickguy said:

Man, you people certainly are pushing for me to get a stick! .....

Well, your handle is "stickguy"! I myself was a manual guy from 1980-2016, a total of 36 years, but now I rarely miss it. Actually, last night for some reason I had a dream I was driving a Mazda3 manual, and it was a heck of a lot of fun. In the dream I was saying to myself, why did I give up shifting? But awake now I don't think I miss it that much....

suydam

When I was looking at the Mazda 3, i wasn't getting very good lease deals. Get what works for you and don't pay attention to the rest of us!

benjaminh

stickguy said:

I did though put Mazda dealer back on list of places to take the wife to. Just to see.

Is it a good idea to take your wife? Would she be ok with it if you just bought your own car? It's not like you're going to come home with a Miata or something....not that—aside from practicality—there would be anything wrong with that.

ab348

benjaminh said:

stickguy said:

I did though put Mazda dealer back on list of places to take the wife to. Just to see.

Is it a good idea to take your wife? Would she be ok with it if you just bought your own car? It's not like you're going to come home with a Miata or something....not that—aside from practicality—there would be anything wrong with that.

Don't be too sure. He had a 2000 MR2 on his list yesterday.

benjaminh

The Jetta 1.4 turbo now seems like a good option. It's a huge $9k under your target budget, and it will be more fun to drive than a 2015 Sonata.

The Jetta is a top safety pick + from the IIHS:

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/volkswagen/jetta-4-door-sedan/2017

My local dealer has a new 2017 Jetta with the auto for $15.5k:

https://www.bachmanvolkswagen.com/inventory/new-2017-volkswagen-jetta-1-4t-s-fwd-4dr-car-3vw2b7ajxhm410524

Looks like a nice car for the price, inside and out.

stickguy

that is an S. stripper model. The SE is the one with the right equipment, and those are in the 18K range around here.

At this point, the wife does not mind going to look. Gives us something to do. But is fine (probably more than fine) with me just buying something and bringing it home. Just to be done with it! For now she just ignores me, but if I turn my car back in and start sharing her, it probably won't be too long before I am told some saturday morning to leave, and don't come back until I have purchased a car.

the stick issue is interesting. Learned on one, and from 1979 through about 2012 (when I got the Volvo S40 to share with the princess) my car was always a stick. and for about 10 years, both cars were so the wife drove one too. But since then, only test drives (well, I did have an Integra for about 6 months in the middle) to keep the skills up.

At this point, really not sure if I would wonder what took so long to go back, or wonder why the heck I did it! Sharing the car among the family would certainly be easier with a slushbox.

andres3

tjc78 said:

Maybe I’m biased but I the Elantra sport offers a lot.  Cheap lease, no dispo fee on the Sonata and a decent ride.  If the sport was out when I got my 17 I probably would have ponied up a bit more monthly for it.  The only rea complaint I have with mine it lack of power.  

Just as important as the engine upgrade in the "sport" models, is the 7-speed dual clutch automatic transmission upgrade too, and it's even better than the one in my Optima; so continuous improvement at work.

I heard the GT hatch "sport" is sportier than the sedan "sport" model though.

stickguy

they are about the same really, mechanically. Same engine and trans, and both have the multilink rear suspension. The GT hatch has a bunch more features (active safety stuff mostly) and costs a few grand more. If the price was the same, I absolutely would take the hatch.

tbirdmarco

@suydam have to agree with what you posted above! lol lollol

tbirdmarco

@stickguy yes we all want you to go with the stick! lollol but if you have to shair with the wife or who ever elce best you do get the auto than! yes the jetta is the one lollol lollol keep on looking cante wate to see what you do end up getting with in the next two weeks onder one munth!

Sandman6472

I'd go with the Elantra GT hatch if it were me at this particular time. Looks great, drives very nicely you've said...checks all the boxes. The perfect vehicle at this juncture!
If not, go with the Jetta, but an SE. That engines a hoot to drive which I found out recently at work. Great size and excellent mpg's, my 2nd choice right now.
Lastly, get a Civic. Get a higher level model so you get all the extra's. Drive great, looks a bit out there. Fun to drive, decent mpg's.
We like the same vehicles except at this point, I might just spend a bit extra and get a CPO 328i. My gut really wants one and at least for me, might as well get it out of my system once and for all! Showed my kids yesterday one on the street here near our hotel and she basically said I'd never get one. Just might prove her wrong in a year or two!

The Sandman

(P.S. Rainy and getting cooler today but a real pleasure to be honest! Might get into the mid 40's tomorrow, luckily I over packed as wanted to cover any temp from the 80's to the 30's. Just don't have a real jacket except a sports jacket so long pants and long sleeve shirts will have to do. Using Lyft and it's been very easy. Hit the app and within minutes, here they are. Don't need a car in the city and luckily the Hertz location is a few blocks away. They'll let us leave our suitcases here so we can go get the vehicle and not have to schlep our stuff over there. I did over pack but driving home so didn't really care!)

stickguy

have fun at the wedding Sandy.

Yes, the GT Elantra is nice. And I always liked small hatches. But that model is about $5K more than a base sport sedan. $3k more than a premium package. Love the power seats in that one, but the rest of the money really goes to stuff I can live without.

Did some looking today and discussion with the wife, so think we have a decision made. Will supply updates after we take dog for a walk and run to Target.

It is close people, close.

nyccarguy

@stickguy - you've spoke of a Golf before.  Does it tickle your fancy?

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-volkswagen-golf-in-depth-model-review?src=socialflowFB&mag=cdb&dom=fb

stickguy

I like Golfs. But I find the decently equipped models still kinda pricey. Plus of course convincing my wife to get a VW!

stickguy

So, had some time this afternoon, so dragged the wife out for some car looking before hitting the supermarket. Yes, our life really is that exciting. Though in between cars and ShopRite I stopped at a local micro brewery.

but, accomplished some good things, and made some decisions. 1st one, used cars are out (though I could still pull off a slightly used demo/CPO if it was nice). She really does not like obviously used cars (and that people have used them and done "stuff" in them). We first stopped at the used place with the BMW and MR2 spyder. BMW was OK, but definitely old fashoined tech stuff. And it really did nothing for her, and was turned off by the normal wear and tear stuff. And as she said, we already have a middle aged car in the family.

The Yota, I actually liked that. But it was just too low. Would be way too limiting. I can get a toy at some point, but it has to come after a real car, not before (or instead of).

So, that pretty much left us with new. So I swung by local Hyundai place, since they just got a shipment of Elantra Sports in. Joint was hopping. My contact was working a deal, so one of his "teammates" helped us, and brought a car around to check out. 2018 base car (no premium package) in gray, exactly what I wanted to see. Even fired up carplay for the first time. Man, was that easy. plug in the lightning cable, push the button, and my phone was running on the screen. super easy to fire up maps too (just wish it was google, not apple!) So, pretty much confirmed that no need to pay extra for Navi.

since we were in the car, figured might as well take a ride. Very nice actually. got things adjusted better than last time, so much more comfy. Still quick and agile. Way better handling and more fun to scoot around than the Sonata. But still comfortable enough (but you can tell it has some sport to it). Has everything I really need, other than a power seat, but I actually found them quite comfortable, with enough rake and cushion length. Plus the wife really likes the seat on her side (though missed the power adjust, but will learn to live with it). HID lights, XM, touchless entry, moonroof, heated seats, BLIS and crosspath. And surprisingly roomy, even in the back seat. Plus it is a zoomy little bugger, but still gets respectable MPG.

TBD

stickguy

so, after discussing, and taking everything into account (budget, needs, future moves), I think we decided to get one of these. Discussed color, and I think will get radical and go with the Red. Gray looked good, but I just had dark silver, and the RDX is charcoal gray. Need some pizzazz I think.

other debate was back to buy vs. lease. With this model, the buy incentives are actually better than leasing it seems. and it would be cheap enough to buy and finance. Would have to take market rate with HFS to save paying the $400 disposition fee, but would probably refi that in a few months to cut the rate. I really don't feel like leasing again either if I don't have to.

I already have standing buy price at my previous dealer over in PA that is good enough, but would try to shave it down a bit to do a deal before month end. Would rather buy local, but even though they take a good line, not sure they will be able to get close enough. One factor is PA dealers have lower doc fees. So, I asked both guys what the DMV and dealer fees are on a purchase. Will use that to figure out an OTD price based on current offer, and what I will go back with. The Breld plan I guess (formerly the Bobst). Tell them if they can hit the bottom line, will do the deal.

The plan would be to buy it, pay off a few years early, then keep it long term without a payment. Told the wife that if we go this way, as soon as it is paid off, we could trade her car in and get something spiffy new to replace it. Plus, by buying, would have the 5 year BtoB warranty, and extra 5 year powertrain. And if I get tired of it by next summer, can just sell it to my daughter!

Best of all, it is a really nice car, and a lot of fun to drive. got the scoot (as my daughter says) and is probably close to being as quick as the RDX. No more flogging the dashboard asking for more speed. Still pretty cheap, and a lot of car for the money at $20k. so not feeling like I was compromising. And the wife likes it. So, why not?

so, just have to make sure about a color, do a bit of haggling, and be done with it all. With a minimal DP, payment will end up being 1/2 way between the 2 payments going away, which will be nice.

Hope I am cool enough to pull of Red!

stickguy

oh, forgot the caveat. Because there is always a caveat. I still plan to go check out the new Accord on Wednesday. If we get blown away, all bets might be off!

kyfdx

So, to recap... still looking.

benjaminh

So are you looking at an Elantra Sport sedan somewhat like this one, but in red....?

https://www.oxmoorhyundai.com/inventory/2018-hyundai-elantra-sport-fwd-4d-sedan-kmhd04lb8ju474726

MSRP: $23,090
Discounts $1,590
Offers $2,500
OXMOOR HYUNDAI PRICE: $19,000

window sticker:

http://www.oxmoor-hyundai.com/external-catalog-services/rest/monroney/windowsticker?vin=KMHD04LB8JU474726&status=2

If so, an Accord EX is going to be about $7000 more expensive. But an Accord will save you c. $300 a year in gas over an Elantra Sport. But even over 10 years that's less than half of the difference....I doubt it's going to impress you that much.

stickguy

that is a manual. AT adds about $1,000 to the price. their discounts probably include a few incentives like Military. Similar to this listing:

http://www.faulknerhyundaiphilly.com/VehicleSearchResults?location=hyun-faulkner-pa&search=new&pageNumber=1&visitedVD=true

The Accord of course would be a lot more expensive. so would rework the plans to accommodate. Plans are always fluid around here. Money, not quite so much.

breld

Congrats @stickguy (well preliminary congrats, anyway)!

I think that's a great choice - should feel different enough from the Sonata but you still take advantage of the cost savings of sticking with Hyundai. I didn't realize how much standard equipment came on the Sport model - that's impressive. If we stick with a sedan when my stepdaughter's Jetta lease is up, I'll really be pushing the Elantra Sport. Actually seems like an ideal replacement for the Jetta Sport.

stickguy

Thanks B. Yeah, it is kind of a natural progression. Way more stuff on it. Though IIRC the current Jetta Sport probably has more features (a Jetta SE is equipped similarly to the Elantra).

benjaminh

stickguy said:

that is a manual. AT adds about $1,000 to the price. their discounts probably include a few incentives like Military. Similar to this listing:

http://www.faulknerhyundaiphilly.com/VehicleSearchResults?location=hyun-faulkner-pa&search=new&pageNumber=1&visitedVD=true

The Accord of course would be a lot more expensive. so would rework the plans to accommodate. Plans are always fluid around here. Money, not quite so much.

Link doesn't seem to work for me. Or it just shows me all the cars, not a specific one.

Anyway, so you're looking at c. $21k + TTL? If so, that's a very good price for a very nice car! Congrats on getting this far. Perhaps you should change your handle to dualclutch-guy?

Was it your wife who nixed VW? Because of reliability, or....? Anyway, with that great Hyundai warranty as you say you can keep it long-term if you really like it.

One slightly weak spot in the Elantra Sport is mpg—22 city and 30 highway, which is less than the 28 city/38 highway of the Civic Si. But, you save about 2k over an Si, and since you want an auto for your wife and daughter, seems like a good choice.

carnaught

That Elantra, looking at that red car, and the window sticker, is a h**l of a good looking car and a buy. The standard equipment paired with the car’s reliability and warranty is unbelievable, a lot of bang for the buck. Have to say though that it is amazing how they (and other car makes) can charge $70 for a bumper applique.

corvette

Stickguy, if I can pull off red in the Mustang, I’m sure you can too! 

tjc78

I had a feeling it would be the Elantra Sport.  

Which dealer? The mall on the BHP?  They do move some iron.  

I’m beyond ticked ...  third screw in one of my tires in the last month.  This one just took out my front tire of the Enclave...  right on the outside edge of the tread.   Luckily Burns gives you “free” road hazard for a year.  Called my salesperson and he assures me when I drop the car off tomorrow the brand new tire will be free.  We will see.  If it work out, that should save me $250.  

stickguy

actually, the MPG ratings on the AT are higher. 22/30 is the manual. The DSG rates at 26/33. and FWIW the sales guy has one, and said he took a trip to Ohio with it, and averaged above 40. In any case, good enough for me, and should beat the Sonata (or at least tie it). Plus, a nice bonus over a GTI or Si, it uses regular gas.

Played around a bit with true car, and got an even better offer (almost seems too good, but I got the certificate). If this goes through, will be well below my hoped for OTD offer that I wasn't expecting to hit, but it can't hurt to try. Will see if can nail it down Monday morning when the internet dude contacts me. Crossing fingers.

only question left was color. We both like the red, and the white (gray and silver are out, as is electric blue). The TC quote was on a red, which is way I am leaning. Wife leaning white, which is certainly "safer" long term. But not as styling.

hey, getting as far as just picking the color is pretty darned good for me!

iluvmysephia1

Nice choice, stick. I've been following your search in here. Incredible bang for the buck and a cool looking rig, too. I do love Hyundai and Kia both. Our Soul now has 90,523 miles on it and it's a hoot to drive. I'm just gonna hold on to the car and see how it does on winter roads over here around Wenatchee. If I don't feel comfortable with driving it anymore I know what I'll shop for.

Nice choice, though. Nice to have the search over, though for us car nuts, the search is really a labor of love, eh?

corvette

Looks like Dad’s 2011 Honda Element has been paid a visit by the Bad Honda Transmission fairy. Stay tuned this week for confirmation. 103,000 miles on the odo, trans was serviced at 75k. It is not leaking but was almost two quarts low when we checked it. 

stickguy

might just go with White. Which I do like a lot on this car. So fine by me. The women folks are both pushing for that anyway, but not that the wife will pull rank since it is my car.

Mr_Shiftright

corvette said:

Looks like Dad’s 2011 Honda Element has been paid a visit by the Bad Honda Transmission fairy. Stay tuned this week for confirmation. 103,000 miles on the odo, trans was serviced at 75k. It is not leaking but was almost two quarts low when we checked it. 

Well certainly worth fixing in any event.

tbirdmarco

@sandman_6472 have a lot of fun at the wedding!

tbirdmarco

@corvette wow happens worth fixing!

tbirdmarco

@stickguy nice nice glad the plans are all working out and you have picked an car! that you are happy with! red sounds nice my favorate!

tbirdmarco

@tjc78 man o man hope that is the end of the nails getting in to your guys tires! how has the work on the house bin going!

tbirdmarco

@iluvmysephia1 how has everything bin going man!