Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

breld

kyfdx

It must be Friday.

28firefighter

Nice to see we're all having productive days at work.

breld

By the way, I've been driving around a Discovery Sport loaner for a couple days now.

Seems to me that over the last several years, luxury manufacturers have realized that size is more of a personal choice and not necessarily the result of a budget constraint. For instance, it used to be that a 5-series was available with more upscale finishes and features than a 3-series. But based on my shopping, most everything available on a 5-series can now be had on a 3-series. Or similarly, a Q5 can be just as nice as a Q7 - again, just a buyer's personal preference and needs.

Land Rover isn't there yet. The Discovery is on an entirely different level than the Discovery Sport in refinement, level of quality materials, etc. I am not exactly enjoying my time in the Sport and can't really imagine why someone would choose one over a Q5, X3 or GLC (all of which I've owned ).

kyfdx

Not only that, the D-Sport has the same drivetrain as the Evoque, but it's a porker.. Almost a full second slower 0-60.. The competition eats it up from a performance standpoint, as well as amenities.

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

Nice to see we're all having productive days at work.

I have to go... stick-shift driving lessons. That's my new gig.

tifighter

breld said:

By the way, I've been driving around a Discovery Sport loaner for a couple days now.

Seems to me that over the last several years, luxury manufacturers have realized that size is more of a personal choice and not necessarily the result of a budget constraint. For instance, it used to be that a 5-series was available with more upscale finishes and features than a 3-series. But based on my shopping, most everything available on a 5-series can now be had on a 3-series. Or similarly, a Q5 can be just as nice as a Q7 - again, just a buyer's personal preference and needs.

Land Rover isn't there yet. The Discovery is on an entirely different level than the Discovery Sport in refinement, level of quality materials, etc. I am not exactly enjoying my time in the Sport and can't really imagine why someone would choose one over a Q5, X3 or GLC (all of which I've owned ).

Discoverys are meant to get dirty. That's the Land Rover trick. No one would be dumb enough to off-road a Volvo, right?
https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/comment/5489002#Comment_5489002

But yeah, the Disco Sport is all kinds of blah.

pensfan83

28firefighter said:

Nice to see we're all having productive days at work.

After being out of town for 8 of the last 12 days I'm anything but productive. I'm working from home, it's sunny enough to take the dog for a walk over lunch, and my wife and myself have our annual Brewers Ball for the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation.

kyfdx

So, which manufacturer currently has an inline six cylinder in their lineup? Besides, BMW.

xwesx

28firefighter said:

I like this:
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/d/2006-bmw-330ci-convertible/6554958267.html

I'm such an unbelievable sucker for the E46.

Problem is, 99% of the time it will look like "image #9" and it is an automatic. So, what's really the point of having it?

xwesx

kyfdx said:

Does Volvo still have any straight-six models? Probably not.

Ford trucks? Probably not.

The new diesel plant being offered in GM's half-ton pickups for the 2019 model is a straight six! The Ford offering is a 'V'.

kyfdx

xwesx said:

kyfdx said:

Does Volvo still have any straight-six models? Probably not.

Ford trucks? Probably not.

The new diesel plant being offered in GM's half-ton pickups for the 2019 model is a straight six! The Ford offering is a 'V'.

Not out yet, right?

corvette

kyfdx said:

So, which manufacturer currently has an inline six cylinder in their lineup? Besides, BMW.

Ram - the Cummins I6 turbo diesel in the heavy duty models. The 1500s offer a V6 turbo diesel. 

kyfdx

corvette said:

kyfdx said:

So, which manufacturer currently has an inline six cylinder in their lineup? Besides, BMW.

Ram - the Cummins I6 turbo diesel in the heavy duty models. The 1500s offer a V6 turbo diesel. 

There you go! Good job!

6.7 litre, too!

xwesx

kyfdx said:

xwesx said:

kyfdx said:

Does Volvo still have any straight-six models? Probably not.

Ford trucks? Probably not.

The new diesel plant being offered in GM's half-ton pickups for the 2019 model is a straight six! The Ford offering is a 'V'.

Not out yet, right?

No, I think they said early Fall timeline. The F150 with diesel is supposedly available in May.

stickguy

this doesn't seem to be a bad deal. If you want AWD. But these are my favorite colors for a Volvo.

http://www.eimports4less.com/detail-2015-volvo-s60-certified_s60_t5_premier_awd_camera_navigation-used-17545789.html

xwesx

stickguy said:

this doesn't seem to be a bad deal. If you want AWD. But these are my favorite colors for a Volvo.

http://www.eimports4less.com/detail-2015-volvo-s60-certified_s60_t5_premier_awd_camera_navigation-used-17545789.html

Yes! Completely agree on the colors.

rny421

stickguy said:

this doesn't seem to be a bad deal. If you want AWD. But these are my favorite colors for a Volvo.

http://www.eimports4less.com/detail-2015-volvo-s60-certified_s60_t5_premier_awd_camera_navigation-used-17545789.html

That seems like a good deal to me. Keyless Go, Nav, and backup camera. No Xenons, or parking sensors, however. Volvo had some weird packaging, and in my opinion, left some important features as standalone options. Xenons were damn near impossible to find on certain Volvos for a while. Now their packaging seems to be more streamlined.

I don't like the tan on tan on this one though. Too much tan for me! My mom's XC60 at has two tone tan seats/black carpet which I could tolerate (I'm the minority on here who likes black interiors).

tifighter

stickguy said:

this doesn't seem to be a bad deal. If you want AWD. But these are my favorite colors for a Volvo.

http://www.eimports4less.com/detail-2015-volvo-s60-certified_s60_t5_premier_awd_camera_navigation-used-17545789.html

Not bad. But what's the deal with the trunk? They make Volvos with trunks?

xwesx

rny421 said:

stickguy said:

this doesn't seem to be a bad deal. If you want AWD. But these are my favorite colors for a Volvo.

http://www.eimports4less.com/detail-2015-volvo-s60-certified_s60_t5_premier_awd_camera_navigation-used-17545789.html

That seems like a good deal to me. Keyless Go, Nav, and backup camera. No Xenons, or parking sensors, however. Volvo had some weird packaging, and in my opinion, left some important features as standalone options. Xenons were damn near impossible to find on certain Volvos for a while. Now their packaging seems to be more streamlined.

I don't like the tan on tan on this one though. Too much tan for me! My mom's XC60 at has two tone tan seats/black carpet which I could tolerate (I'm the minority on here who likes black interiors).

Just drop in some black Weathertech Floor Liners. Problem solved!

stickguy

that was my thought. I would be getting all weather mats anyway, so might as well get the black ones. I have that in my RDX (all tan seats and carpet, black mats) and it looks nice.

andres3

imidazol97 said:

present AT THE COUNTY SEAT. Until that day happens, I'm not paying them one EXPLITIVE CENT!

Welcome to California.

My father said he talked to an old retired CA traffic prosecutor (must have been DUI type misdemeanor cases as DA's are not allowed in normal traffic court).

He said the advice was to just pay it, because, and I quote:

• The State is too busy to look at details.
  
• The State is too busy to be fair.
  
• The State is too busy to provide any justice.
  
• The employees are too overworked.
  
• You'll never win; just give up and pay the fine / bribe/ extortion/ ransom.
  

I told him it sure did sound like a Prosecutor, he needs to talk to a Defense Attorney. It's never too late to correct a wrong.

I'm even more determined to fight this, as my 4-year old daughter asked me what a lawyer does.

I answered "They work and fight to make sure laws are followed, and justice is served."

I know that's an idealistic positive way to look at lawyers, but I'm going with that.

andres3

On another note, I'm glad I reached out to more than 3 lawyers in my bid to hire a good one. My last conversation was the longest and most informative, and she provided excellent advice:

She said I should write the Officer that wrote the ticket and granted the County Seat, and tell him about what has happened, and given he agreed to the County Seat before, he maybe be willing to do a "Correction Notice" to his citation and tell the Court to make it at the County Seat as he meant to do (would have been better if he did a strike-through the East County court completely, and in hindsight, now I know fairly super clear might not be clear enough for Court Clerks.

This is an excellent idea. I contacted a different lawyer when I first received my notice to appear at the wrong Court. I asked for free advice and consultation on what to do with my case. That lawyer (who comes highly recommended) was the one that said to "write the Court" not the Officer. Turned out to be bad advice. Perhaps not wrong, but not effective as it turns out. Due to that bad advice, I'm not hiring that same lawyer.

Best case scenario:

The officer writes the "Notice of Correction", the court can't circumvent that, and apparently it's a lot of difficult work and hassle to change the venue, so the judge will likely just dismiss the case right then and there!
I think this is more likely to happen than you think, if the Officer plays ball and has integrity (which I have a feeling he will, because he remembers me and my County Seat request; no chance he's forgotten about it). I won't need a lawyer in this scenario because the change of venue and new appearance dates will retroactively cancel out all the other issues (failure to appear/failure to pay).

PROBLEM: Even in that best case scenario and result, it might not happen in time to beat my May 16th License Suspension.

That's a Conundrum. I think I have to hire a lawyer to appear on the Failure to Appear, resolve that, and perhaps I might not need to pay for 3 appearances for the lawyer if all goes well.

tbirdmarco

 Punch to report from my mom she got a 2018 rolled SVE in white with the black interior premium package power liftgate heated front seats and steering wheel 

tbirdmarco

Good luck with that all posted above Andries three the government is a pain in the [non-permissible content removed] state or federal ha ha Ha as we all know

xwesx

It's a hassle, to be sure, but I think that you're taking the correct approach.

They *want* you to take the *I give up* approach, but, frankly, they're all being a bunch of lazy deadbeats on this one.

I think I recounted my experience about 11 years ago when a psycho driver literally ran me off the road and destroyed my car. After hours of discussion with law enforcement and tracking down the perp, the most they were willing to do was to cite the other driver for some BS minor infraction. Catch was, he cited me for the same thing. As I looked into it, I found that it was, indeed, BS, and didn't apply to the situation at all. So, I decided to contest it.

If I recall correctly, we have something like 45 days to do so, and I submitted my paperwork within that window. The perp didn't do a thing, which means that he would have received default judgement, an additional fine, and mandatory requirement to pay, etc. After another couple of weeks, I get a call from the officer saying that he felt I 'betrayed' him (his words) because he had talked to me about the whole thing and didn't expect that I would contest it. I gave him my rationale on contesting it, and he finally said that he was dropping the ticket... for both of us! What a short-sighted [non-permissible content removed] that guy was....

stickguy

tbirdmarco said:

 Punch to report from my mom she got a 2018 rolled SVE in white with the black interior premium package power liftgate heated front seats and steering wheel 

I hope she got a really good deal on it, if it was rolled over.

andres3

rny421 said:

stickguy said:

this doesn't seem to be a bad deal. If you want AWD. But these are my favorite colors for a Volvo.

http://www.eimports4less.com/detail-2015-volvo-s60-certified_s60_t5_premier_awd_camera_navigation-used-17545789.html

That seems like a good deal to me. Keyless Go, Nav, and backup camera. No Xenons, or parking sensors, however. Volvo had some weird packaging, and in my opinion, left some important features as standalone options. Xenons were damn near impossible to find on certain Volvos for a while. Now their packaging seems to be more streamlined.

I don't like the tan on tan on this one though. Too much tan for me! My mom's XC60 at has two tone tan seats/black carpet which I could tolerate (I'm the minority on here who likes black interiors).

I love tan carpet with tan interior. The two go together, while the black doesn't mix well with it really. I view cars with lower black plastics or carpet in a tan interior to do it because they are "cheap."

That many more parts that are identical no matter what color you get (as long as it's black).

xwesx

stickguy said:

tbirdmarco said:

 Punch to report from my mom she got a 2018 rolled SVE in white with the black interior premium package power liftgate heated front seats and steering wheel 

I hope she got a really good deal on it, if it was rolled over.

The Rolled Rogue. Rolls off the tongue and the road!

corvette

andres3 said:

I love tan carpet with tan interior. The two go together, while the black doesn't mix well with it really. I view cars with lower black plastics or carpet in a tan interior to do it because they are "cheap."

I view it as "this carpet is probably going to get really dirty, therefore, we're going to make it a color that doesn't show dirt as badly." The A4 I leased had very light colored ivory leather and carpet and floormats. It was impossible to keep the carpet and mats clean. I bought black Weathertech mats after a month.

My Murano had light colored seats, but a lot of the interior trim was a darker ivory color, as was the carpet. Much easier to keep clean-ish looking.

tbirdmarco

 Stick guy and others above that’s hilarious I know been voice dictation ha ha Ha no that didn’t happen to it perfectly fine ha ha Ha 

andres3

Accident Report:

So on the way home yesterday after work, taking the scenic "fun" way home to avoid traffic jams, I'm in a navigation induced shortcut through a rural hilly/mountainy residential road, and this guy with woman and young child in tow in a Mazda 3 hatch sticks his car out of a driveway at just the wrong moment without either looking "or seeing me," his words admitting he didn't see me. The driveway is steep downward off to the side, and they have tall thick bushes blocking view, and it's a very narrow road - almost a 1-lane road (not fit or std. for 2-way traffic).

I should have just rammed him, would have been all his fault. I should have installed a dash cam, it would help in cases like this.

However, the better driving skills and instinct got the better of me, and I swerved that Kia around him as best I could (no time to brake). Miraculously, the Kia managed to dodge him, and it couldn't of been by much more than inches. It all happened so fast, there was no time for any other manuever. After playing it over and over in my head, I made the right call; the only call that would have completetly avoided a wreck (and did, sort of).

Due to the narrow lane in Lakeside, and the Kia not handling like a TTS, I was unable to get it back on the road before hitting the front right tire hard against an asphalt curb (5-6") on the high side. I have a feeling the suspension was at least somewhat loaded to the right side as it appears I redirected the car leftward back onto the lane as luckily there was a "driveway" allowing my "dodge" on the right side, but the driveway runs out fast at 20-25 MPH.

The car has super tall sidewalls at 205/65R16, but apparently Michelin uses no steel in the sidewall of a LRR tire. It blew out, completely punching out a piece of sidewall (as if someone cut a flap out of the side wall).

Kia, in their infinite stupidity, didn't supply the Optima with a spare, not even a donut! Last time I will ever own or lease a car without a spare! It is such a dumb idea to have a "kit." Kits are useless in situations just like this. I was supposed to be road side assisted by Kia within 60 minutes, texts coming into me to verify that estimate from the phone call. 40 minutes in, a text saying a 20 minute estimate (all is well, I can live with 1 hour given I was somewhat rural and in a "rare" road location on a Friday late afternoon just after rush hour). Kia did give me some static when I said "it was technically an accident/collision." Unlike Audi, apparently they don't like covering accidents for tows. I changed my tune and said, well, there was no collison, because technically all that happened was a tire blow out as far as I know, and it's Kia's fault I was stuck (other than bad Mazda driver which I left out). It was late on a Friday afternoon quickly becoming evening and then dark.

Stupid tow truck company doesn't show. At 70 minutes in I call them direct, and am told due to a CHP 3-tow call, i might be waiting another hour! OH HELL NO! Kia's system allows me to report that I"m not picked up when I should be, so I get a call from them and they contact a competing tow truck company knowing the one that stood me up is a "problematic" tow truck company. I also call AAA, but I don't have my card on me, and while fumbling with them on the phone, I got a call that it would only be 30 minutes from the better Kia tow company, so I told Triple A to forget it.

Some good samaritans look at my car, and offer to find me a tire that'll fit. Sure enough, they live close and 5 minutes later they come back with a donut with matching lugs. Not quite as tall as it should be, but functional. They offer to put it on the back side, and I accept since no tow trucks are in sight. They say I can keep the donut so that I can use it in the future if need be. So just as we finish putting the donut on the rear tow truck from "acceptable" back up company shows. We get started on putting the good rear stock tire on the front right as we tell him, thanks for showing, but looks like I'm good to go home on my own instead of to the closed Kia dealership nearby.

Speaking of Mazda driver. He seemed cool and helpful, and even offered to help me change the tire before I remembered when opening the trunk that it was a useless and fruitless endeavor unless he had a similar size tire (guess I should have asked if Mazda had the same bolt layout and if he had a donut in hindsight!). He got very protective and information secretive when I asked for his insurance information. He mentioned I'll give you my information, but "there wasn't really a collision; I don't know how their going to handle that for you" I told him, "yes, thanks to me, our cars were spared a nasty collision, but my right tire wasn't. I feel I did nothing wrong here!" I barely got his driver's license number out of him, his insurance policy, and phone number/name. I took a picture of his car (license plate). Also took pictures of the scene all over.

If it's just my tire, I told him I wasn't making a claim (though I would ask him to pay for it personally/directly). However, I mentioned there could be suspension, alignment, and wheel damage, and I won't know until it's checked out.

I drive home, since the only light that shows up is the TPMS and low right tire inflation symbols graphics. As I'm turning left a block or two away (after chatting and thanking for some time these 2 good samaritans), the original tow truck company shows. I stop for 10 seconds just to tell him out my window the situation, then drive off not feeling the least bit bad about calling them off beforehand, as I get home about 15 minutes later at 9 PM!

Of course, after a mile or so the christmas tree of lights went up. OK, not that bad, just ABS and some other symbol besides TPMS. I went slow and avoided any hard braking or turning.

Now i need a new tire and can avoid paying dealership prices for that, but I'll probably still have to go to the dealership to clear codes and assess damage.

Anyone here have experience with a claim where there was a "phantom" collision that caused the "accidental" damage? This is as clear cut a case as there can be, but no dash cam footage

Lastly, with a lease.... can one tire on a FWD car be returned at the end of the lease "newish" while the others are near the end of their life 5/32nds? Am I doomed to have to replace all 4 even though I have less than 20K miles?

qbrozen

Read your lease fine print. Should be a line or 2 in there about the tires. Right now, I'd also be worried for a bent wheel.

graphicguy

corvette said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

graphicguy said:

Speaking of great manual trans/clutches......best one I ever had (and that includes manual versions of ‘80s BMW, a muscle car (or two), an MGB GT (well worn), a 280ZX, Toyota Corolla GTS, a couple of Celicas, a 240SX, and a “three on the tree” panel van..........

.........2004 Mazda RX8. Sweetest shifting manual that my paws and size 10s every operated. Part of the fun was the 9K redline, though.

LOVED the shifter in the RX-8.

"It's an awesome car with a fatal flaw".

The fatal flaw being the rotary engine? 

It wasn’t as quick as its main competition at the time, the 350Z. It certainly didn’t have the torque of the Z’s big 6.

It was a little finicky....burned a little oil (by design). If it flooded (which might happen if you shut it down without getting it up to normal operating temps) you had to have it towed to the dealer for them to clear the fuel out of the ports.

If you knew how to take care of it....rev it before shutting it down to clear fuel from the ports, keep an eye on the oil levels (used about a qt every 3K miles), it was a blast to drive. Best handling car I had ever driven. And, it sounded great running it to the 9K redline. You wanted to do that regularly to get to the modest torque peak.

People wanted a car they could jump in and just drive, without worrying about oil levels, or taking any precautions to keep it from flooding.

I think in later production years Mazda had reworked it a bit so the original “design” wasn’t so maintenance hungry.

I never had any of those problems with it. But, the original buyers, of which I was one of, were offered the opportunity to sell it back to Mazda for full price including all costs associated with buying it.

Being a charter member of the CCBA club, I took them up on it. I had it several months. Enjoyed it. But, I knew what I was getting into when I bought it. I turned around and bought a (then all new design) ‘05 Mustang GT. Didn’t handle nearly as well....didn’t shift as well, but was much faster. That was fun too, just in a different way. Didn’t use any oil. Didn’t flood.

stickguy

Andre., I doubt you have a claim. if anything it is on your comprehensive. No collision, no witnesses, no police reports. And depending on your deductible, you will be paying for it anyway.

first step is the tire store to get a new tire on it. at least match the brand/model on there and you should be fine for the lease. while they have it in can check for any other damage, and check alignment.

and I agree with you about not having a spare. that is a hot button topic for me too. I made sure my Elantra had one!

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

Read your lease fine print. Should be a line or 2 in there about the tires. Right now, I'd also be worried for a bent wheel.

And even that CAN be fixed as long as it isn't broken.

andres3

nyccarguy said:

qbrozen said:

Read your lease fine print. Should be a line or 2 in there about the tires. Right now, I'd also be worried for a bent wheel.

And even that CAN be fixed as long as it isn't broken.

Didn't look broken, maybe a bit of curb rash along the edge. Looked round visually. Good for the wheel the tire has a 65 sidewall, bad for the driver, the tire blew itself out despite that. Might have the dealerships 40 PSI contributed to this? Probably. They did that to try and fix my "fuel economy" issue. Should be around 36 psi. Did that make a difference; we'll never know for sure.

andres3

stickguy said:

Andre., I doubt you have a claim. if anything it is on your comprehensive. No collision, no witnesses, no police reports. And depending on your deductible, you will be paying for it anyway.

first step is the tire store to get a new tire on it. at least match the brand/model on there and you should be fine for the lease. while they have it in can check for any other damage, and check alignment.

and I agree with you about not having a spare. that is a hot button topic for me too. I made sure my Elantra had one!

That's sort of what I'm afraid of. There was technically a collision though, my front whee/tire with the asphalt curb rounding out of a driveway onto the road. Doubt I could claim "road hazard" on this one! LOL.

Never thought about being such a good driver that you get punished for a good deed! I mitigated the damages tremendously, and feel like I'll be punished. Yes, I'm patting myself on the back, wish I had video of my accident avoidance manuever; textbook real-world example.

Unless Mazda 3's are road hazards now. Doesn't matter, as these are OEM; no road harzard coverage.

tbirdmarco

 Sorry to hear about your accident last night on trees three played it wasn’t serious and you are OK and the other party nothing bad happened that’s good the other party was pretty cool hopefully you just need a pony or wake mentioned above get a matching tire and you should be good to go hopefully the room is OK do you have a shop you could bring it to check for damage and avoid dealer all together yes speeders very important have to check my mom‘s new car 

tbirdmarco

Hopefully it has a spare tire I should’ve looked but I really didn’t get a check later when she comes home with her her hopefully it has a spare tire I should’ve looked but I really didn’t wanna check later when she comes home brother caller believe I think at one 

tbirdmarco

 Wow this voice dictation is really acting up must have a hangover from last night ha ha 

qbrozen

andres3 said:

Read your lease fine print. Should be a line or 2 in there about the tires. Right now, I'd also be worried for a bent wheel.

And even that CAN be fixed as long as it isn't broken.

Didn't look broken, maybe a bit of curb rash along the edge. Looked round visually. Good for the wheel the tire has a 65 sidewall, bad for the driver, the tire blew itself out despite that. Might have the dealerships 40 PSI contributed to this? Probably. They did that to try and fix my "fuel economy" issue. Should be around 36 psi. Did that make a difference; we'll never know for sure.

You often can't tell by looking at it. Both rears of my bimmer were cracked but had no idea till I kept losing air and finally took one off and found the crack on the backside. 

I did get those repaired, BTW. Was $150 ea.

fintail

Another reason to run a dashcam. They can be cheaper than a tire.

Here's one for the BMW bros, from an estate sale organizer I know of. 03 325xi wagon, 23K miles, local one owner, all records, maintained by the book, yada yada. They are trying to get $6400 for it:

stickguy

I would do it. even though it isn't a stick.

kyfdx

Sport seats. That helps

28firefighter

If it was a stick I’d be over today. 

biancar

I think I'm about to buy a 2016 Audi A5 Cabriolet, 10,500 miles, all packages (Premium Plus, Technology, Comfort (which includes the "neckwarmer" heating ducts plus the ventilated seats). Ibis White with black roof, grey interior with beige seats. $38,500. Good deal? I'm trading in my 2005 350Z Touring Roadster, have no idea yet what he will give me for it. Private party sales are $10 to $12k, trade-in value around $8k. Only 36,000 miles on the Roadster.

This is my first venture into Audi-land. So far all my discussions with the salesman have been emails, as I'm out of town and can't actually see it until early next week, when I will test drive and decide for sure. He has sent me pictures, and it's a CPO car. So far everything looks good, Carfax checks out, Yelp reviews of this dealer are nearly all glowingly positive.

Audi guys, any particular advice for me? Price appears to be about $1,000 less than KBB's idea of market value, so my inclination is to take it without haggling, and try to get a high offer for the Z. Decent plan?

Anything in particular I should ask about or look out for during the test drive?

fintail

The BMW is at an estate sale today (Mercer Island, which suits it well). If it doesn't sell today, the price will be quite negotiable tomorrow, I suspect.

28firefighter

fintail said:

The BMW is at an estate sale today (Mercer Island, which suits it well). If it doesn't sell today, the price will be quite negotiable tomorrow, I suspect.

Let me know if it doesn’t sell....not that I need another car but at the right price...

tifighter

A one owner 3 wagon from MI with all records and sport seats below 30k miles for $6400? Yeah, someone should snap that up...