Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

stickguy

If others go for 6, close to 4 does not sound out of line. So go to $3,600 cash to end early. Unless you aren’t that worried about missing out on it.

nyccarguy

ab348 said:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-acura-integra-type-r-18/ These have been a hot topic lately...

I get a "Not Found" response, not sure why since I found it and my link looks the same: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-acura-integra-type-r-18/

I like that Type R.  What’s with the Milano Red Wrap though?

corvette

I’m guessing the paint job underneath isn’t great, and the wrap was cheaper than another repaint.  

stickguy

That integra looks like a rat.

Now this, I really like. There is also a tasty yellow 65 up now.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-chevrolet-corvair-3/

benjaminh

Which Preludes had four wheel steering?

stickguy

Wasn’t that the SH model? Bradd would know!

ab348

stickguy said:

That integra looks like a rat.

I agree. Seats, underbody shots, etc do not inspire confidence.

In that case perhaps the Cult of Integra will only bid it up to $20K or so.

ab348

stickguy said:

Now this, I really like. There is also a tasty yellow 65 up now.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-chevrolet-corvair-3/

My brother restored one of those Corsas about 15 years ago, same year/model/engine/transmission. He rebuilt the engine and suspension, put in a new correct interior from Clark's, fixed some minimal rust (it had been in his garage for 20 years so that part wasn't bad), bought a bunch of trim parts from Clark's, and then made his big mistake - being the cheapskate he is he decided to repaint it back to its original color by himself in his garage. Bad choice. It was at best a 20-foot paint job, lots of dust in the paint.

Aside from that mistake it was a hoot to drive and quite nice overall. He ended up selling it a few years ago for $6K Cdn which I thought was a steal for the buyer.

pensfan83

Yeah I have no problem going a little over my current offer if it comes down to it.

@fintail this one used to red, the current owner had it repainted in a midnight pearl which is an NSX color apparently. It's a nice, subdued purple color. With a nice wash and polish it will clean up really nice.

au1994

Wonder where @breld is today? I need the latest installment of “As the Land Rover Turns”.

pensfan83

ab348 said:

I get a "Not Found" response, not sure why since I found it and my link looks the same:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-acura-integra-type-r-18/

While it's not up to the standards of the recent ITR's I bet it still goes for $12-$14K. One of the comments notes it's basically an ITR for the masses that won't break the bank. Personally there's still too many question marks for my liking.

laurasdada

kyfdx said:

I can still remember window shopping at the British Leyland/BMW dealer back in the '70s when we were just out of high school..

As we are getting out of the car, a lady walks out of the service entrance, and shouts... "Never buy a @#$%^ Jaguar. The cars are crap and so is this dealership!!"

Hmmm, wonder what she meant by that?

corvette

breld, I would be blowing up that dealer’s Facebook, Google, and any other review sites with your story. 

Mr_Shiftright

ab348 said:

au1994 said:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-acura-integra-type-r-18/

These have been a hot topic lately...

I get a "Not Found" response, not sure why since I found it and my link looks the same:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-acura-integra-type-r-18/

Fixed it for him.

nyccarguy

benjaminh said:

Which Preludes had four wheel steering?

Prepare to be semi-bored. In an effort to make their front wheel drive cars handle more like rear wheel drive cars and have a tighter turning radius for easier parking (good handling FWD cars traditionally have a very wide turning radius), Honda developed a mechanical 4 wheel steering system for it's 3rd generation Prelude in (I believe MY 1988). The rear wheels turn ever so slightly (I'm not sure of the exact degree) with the front wheels to make parking easier. The rear wheels turn ever so slightly in the opposite direction of the front wheels to make the typical "nose heavy" FWD car handle better than it should. The result is also a car that is extremely stable when changing lanes. (Someone please correct me if I am wrong).

In 1993, the 2nd year of the 4th generation Prelude, Honda went away from a mechanical system to an Electronic 4 wheel steering system. The result was a fantastic handling car that was quite a few pounds heavier than it's Prelude Si (2.3L non VTEC 160 hp I4) and Prelude S (2.2L non VTEC 130 hp I4). It was also more expensive as well. Electronic 4WS was discontinued in (I believe) 1995 and MIGHT have only been available with a 5-Speed manual transmission.

When the 5th Generation Preludes were introduced for MY 1997, Honda developed ATTS (Active Torque Transfer System) for it's Prelude Type SH (Super Handling). This is a computer controlled system uses an open differential to send up to 80% of the torque toward the outside wheel during extreme handling (like a tight hairpin turn). My car handles and drives outstandingly well despite it's as new low 7 sec 0-60 mph time. The biggest downside to this is the clutch replacement. In order to replace the clutch on a Prelude Type SH, the ATTS unit must be removed and re-installed which results in an ADDITIONAL 5 hours of labor.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

pensfan83

Good recap @nyccarguy, that's what I understand as well. 3rd gen's are entirely mechanical in operation with a long shaft running between the front and rear axles that worked in conjunction with the steering input. Since it is mechanical in with no electronics, there doesn't seem to be a high rate of failure or breakdown. In fact one site I was browsing noted years after the car was introduced many dealer techs still weren't even sure how 4WS operated since they rarely had any breakdowns to allow them to tear into the system.

corvette

Was 4WS only offered on certain trim levels? 

breld

au1994 said:

Wonder where @breld is today? I need the latest installment of “As the Land Rover Turns”.

Son's baseball in the morning, and then been busy at work. Finally taking a late lunch break to catch up here.

@pensfan83 - good luck with the Prelude. I actually tried to see two local examples of a 5th gen Prelude earlier in the week listed on craigslist. The first one (and the one with the most potential) never responded (I assume it sold). On the second one, I arranged a time to look at it via text. When I asked for the location, they replied with the address...I replied I'd be there in 15-20 minutes...and almost immediately, they replied that something came up and they couldn't show the car. I simply replied, "okay."

I did take a nice long test drive of an MDX Sport Hybrid yesterday afternoon. I am very impressed with the performance - acceleration feels quick and immediate, the DCT shifts are almost imperceptible, the steering has a nice heft to it, and it handles as well as you'd expect any 3-row SUV to.

The interior is handsome and I really like the captain's chair and center armrest setup in the 2nd row (drove an Advance model). The infotainment system does appear outdated though, and the instrument panel lacks the virtual display that many of the other luxury SUVs are going to (I have to say I've become accustomed to a digital speedometer that most of my other vehicles have had). The sunroof seems puny compared to competitors' panoramic ones. And, the seat adjustment for the driver's seat is fairly limited. I could have used another inch or so of travel for more legroom, and I appreciate more distinct adjustments for height (front and back, versus just a single raise/lower).

Basically, the MDX is on the last couple years before a redesign, and based on the new RDX, I think the MDX will benefit greatly from the update.

kyfdx

corvette said:

Was 4WS only offered on certain trim levels? 

4WS was it's own model, more or less. It's just like Honda is now. No options, just different models.

stickguy

I assume the next MDX will be a stretched RDX, but has that been confirmed? I guess the current model has been around for a while, since I think it was new for 2014?

tifighter

stickguy said:

I assume the next MDX will be a stretched RDX, but has that been confirmed? I guess the current model has been around for a while, since I think it was new for 2014?

I'd expect it to be on a different platform. Shared on some level with Pilot, Odyssey and Ridgeline.

stickguy

could be. that is the current platform it is on.

I wonder if Acura will join the compact trend, and do a shrunken model off the RDX platform to compete with the X2, Q3, etc? Hot market niche!

nyccarguy

corvette said:

Was 4WS only offered on certain trim levels? 

It was a trim level above the Si.

S, Si, 4WS

S, Si, Si 4WS, VTEC

graphicguy

stickguy said:

could be. that is the current platform it is on.

I wonder if Acura will join the compact trend, and do a shrunken model off the RDX platform to compete with the X2, Q3, etc? Hot market niche!

Following Honda and Acura, it seems they're very deliberate in announcing new models. However, even when a certain model doesn't do well, they stick with it, unless they have a change in strategy.

Honda's Insight took a hiatus, but now it's back. Same with the Ridgeline. They've been selling the Accord and Civic almost since they entered the North American market, through good times and bad. I don't ever remember them making a bad car, either.

Acura? Almost the same. However, they seem more willing to switch out models. Legend became the RL which became the RLX. Acura stubbornly keeps selling those, even though sales have been fairly dismal.

TL/CL became the TLX. TSX went away. ILX hasn't been around that long, and even though sales for it have been dismal, I just read Acura is getting ready to update it to current standards of the brand.

MDX and RDX have carried the brand in recent years, though.

stickguy

the RLX really must be on borrowed time at this point.

benjaminh

nyccarguy said:

corvette said:

Was 4WS only offered on certain trim levels? 

It was a trim level above the Si.

S, Si, 4WS

S, Si, Si 4WS, VTEC

Interesting that today 4WS is standard across the line on all two-wheel drive TLXs.

Sandman6472

I looked at the ILX before I bought the Golf but it was a bit pricey to get what the Golf had on it, the "SE" version. But will need to drive a newer one to see if they've changed. Still, the Insight has all my attention now so am hoping it meets or even beats my expectations. Just wish I had one now to take advantage of the better mpg's for my drive to Hertz. Knowing me, I'll probably get one after I retire because right now, just ain't logical to dump the Golf. Not even at 42K yet and as long as it behaves, it's a keeper.
And what can I say about the wife's Audi A3, no issues to speak of though the oil needed to be topped off yesterday as a light came on. They checked the system and all is up to specs. Glad it has the 4/50K warranty as she'll make the 4 years the rate she's driving. She likes it which is fine with me and she agrees that we both just don't want to buy anything new right now. Luckily, Hertz lets me try most newer vehicles which is fine with me. FLL just got in a mess load of Chevy Impala's, Kia Soul's, Kia Sportage's and Jeep Wrangler's. They really do a great job of getting them pdi'd, putting on the plates and getting that info into the computers. A lot of my job is bringing turn backs and wholesale vehicles to their staging area or to maintenance to have work done on them. Plus, there's also body work and windshield replacement...we're always busy!

The Sandman

kyfdx

benjaminh said:

nyccarguy said:

corvette said:

Was 4WS only offered on certain trim levels? 

It was a trim level above the Si.

S, Si, 4WS

S, Si, Si 4WS, VTEC

Interesting that today 4WS is standard across the line on all two-wheel drive TLXs.

Is it really Four Wheel Steering?

breld

stickguy said:

the RLX really must be on borrowed time at this point.

The recent facelift helps with the overall look. I wonder how much mileage they could get out of a simple revival of the Legend nameplate.

benjaminh

kyfdx said:

benjaminh said:

nyccarguy said:

corvette said:

Was 4WS only offered on certain trim levels? 

It was a trim level above the Si.

S, Si, 4WS

S, Si, Si 4WS, VTEC

Interesting that today 4WS is standard across the line on all two-wheel drive TLXs.

Is it really Four Wheel Steering?

Yes. The TLX has what's called precision all-wheel steering as standard. And you can really feel it. I'm no expert driver at all, but I think it's fun and it does seem to be precise.



http://acuranews.com/acura-automobiles/channels/tlx-press-kit/releases/2018-acura-tlx-press-kit-chassis

"Precision All-Wheel Steer™ (P-AWS)
Standard on all front-wheel drive TLX models, Precision All-Wheel Steer™ (P-AWS) helps the TLX driver smoothly and easily trace the desired line with smaller steering-wheel inputs. The result is outstanding dynamic performance at all speeds, providing the TLX driver with the most engaging driving experience possible.

P-AWS provides independent electronic control of rear-wheel toe angles. Benefits of the system include:

Minimized turning radius with neater execution of sharp low-speed turns
Improved response for quick steering maneuvers such as lane changes
Enhanced agility and nimbleness in tight, urban conditions
More confidence and control on curved highway on- and off-ramps
Greater agility on winding roads
Quicker and more effective emergency steering response
Increased straight-line highway stability
Confident braking stability
Improved high speed response and stability in winter driving and when Vehicle Stability Assist™ (VSA®) is activated

TLX Precision All-Wheel Steer™ Detail
P-AWS Operation
Key components of P-AWS include independent electrically assisted left/right toe-control actuators, special control arms and suspension uprights and an electronic control unit that is linked via a dedicated Control Area Network (CAN) to the Electric Power Steering (EPS), Vehicle Stability Assist™ (VSA®), braking and engine control systems.

In operation, P-AWS continuously monitors and calculates the correct amount of rear-toe angle input necessary for the conditions, analyzing steering input, engine and road speed, transmission, throttle position, brake pressure, yaw rate, lateral acceleration and other factors. The maximum amount of rear-wheel toe angle adjustment is 1.8 degrees in either direction (positive or negative) for a total range of 3.6 degrees.

P-AWS automatically and continually adjusts the toe angle of each rear wheel to match driving situations such as turning at an intersection, driving on windy roads, merging or exiting a highway, high-speed maneuvers or snowy conditions. The P-AWS system provides confidence-building cornering capability through improved responsiveness and vehicle control. Examples include:

Secure Highway Cruising — When the driver initiates a lane-change maneuver requiring that the TLX neatly move into the next lane, the P-AWS system adjusts the rear wheel toe angles in phase (the same direction) with the front wheels enabling quick, clean and stable maneuvering.
City Agility and Easy Parking — For sharp low-speed turns, such as on city streets or in parking lots, the P-AWS system adjusts the rear wheel toe angles out of phase (the opposite direction) with the front wheels. This results in a tighter turning radius and reduces driver effort.
Fun to Drive on Winding Roads — When tracing the lines of a twisty road (or helping the TLX track confidently in snowy conditions) the P-AWS system counteracts understeer by helping introduce yaw — the necessary rotational effect — through the corner.
P-AWS Modes
P-AWS can provide rear-wheel toe-in, in-phase steering or out-of-phase steering, depending on the dynamic requirements as dictated by the system ECU. Specific key rear-wheel toe angle adjustments include...."

benjaminh

Advertisement for a four wheel steering Prelude from the early 1990s. I remember reading this ad, but thinking I'd never get to experience that. But now with my 4WS TLX at least I get a taste, even though I know it's a much bigger vehicle than the sporty Prelude.

PS You can click on this ad to enlarge it so you can read the text.

sda

Question for my CCBA test drive experts. I have become more and more hesitant to test drive a car unless I am really in the market. This wasn't always the case. I try to respect that if I am test driving a car and don't intend to buy then I am wasting the sales person's time and their ability to earn a living. When you test drive a car, how do you approach the sales person asking to test drive and afterwards, do you just say you want to think about it? Do you give them your contact info, such as your cell phone# or email address? I am interested in the diplomatic strategy you employ.

rny421

Does anyone have any idea what's a fair price on these? I'm picky on color and option must-haves (black or white, must have xenons, AWD, backup camera/sensors, pano sunroof, and would really prefer the 18" wheels instead of the 19")

https://www.bmwofdallas.com/certified/BMW/2015-BMW-X3-d8e902710a0d04fe4b28f712ddbd096c.htm

We're thinking about replacing the Volvo with an X3. The higher optioned ones really seem to hold their value though, which is atypical compared to most higher-optioned vehicles.

Hasn't someone here had a ~2015 X3? Any insight? We're hoping to go drive one this weekend.

breld

@sda - like everyone else here, I love going to the lots to check cars out, especially when new models are released, but I generally won't take a test drive unless it's something I'd legitimately consider (not that I'm necessarily buying that day, but potentially at some point).

My standard line for when I'm not ready to talk numbers is that I'm early in the process and need to check out some competitors (sometimes this is true and sometimes it's not).

I'm not shy about providing my contact information - and I try to take the calls when they come out of courtesy.

Of course...I'm always in the market, so that helps.

roadburner

sda said:

Question for my CCBA test drive experts. I have become more and more hesitant to test drive a car unless I am really in the market. This wasn't always the case. I try to respect that if I am test driving a car and don't intend to buy then I am wasting the sales person's time and their ability to earn a living. When you test drive a car, how do you approach the sales person asking to test drive and afterwards, do you just say you want to think about it? Do you give them your contact info, such as your cell phone# or email address? I am interested in the diplomatic strategy you employ.

Don't bother the dealer on weekends- go during the week when things aren't as hectic. Tell the salesperson up front that you aren't in the market today. When I worked at BMW I didn't mind giving test drives to buyers who weren't intending to buy in the near future. A few changed their mind after the test drive, and most came back and purchased/leased a car. At a minimum give them an email address.
Outside of the luxury/performance marques you may well find that you'll get a high-pressure sales pitch no matter what you tell them; one reason I only deal with certain brands and dealers.

stickguy

I kinda do what Breld does. if I am actually looking, but early in the process, I just tell them that I am checking stuff out, but not buying today. and make sure to take their card. Can also use the "gotta bring the wife back" excuse too. Often I will tell them that I am just browsing, and they push to take a test drive. And I don't like to be rude!

Last time I was at the Hyundai dealer for an oil change, I was scoping out the new Kona in the showroom, and chatting with the sales manager out on the floor about it. He asked if I wanted to take a test drive. I said no, I really was not going to be buying, just curious. But he actually kept asking, and said that his sales guys (it was early on a Friday morning) were sitting around bored, and they liked to get out, so it would be doing him a favor! At that point I would have, but they called to tell me my car was finished.

corvette

breld said:

stickguy said:

the RLX really must be on borrowed time at this point.

The recent facelift helps with the overall look. I wonder how much mileage they could get out of a simple revival of the Legend nameplate.

Legend was a great name. Shame on them for dumping it in favor of the meaningless alphabetic nameplates--I don't even think they're acronyms. I had no idea they were still selling the RLX.

corvette

sda said:

Question for my CCBA test drive experts. I have become more and more hesitant to test drive a car unless I am really in the market. This wasn't always the case. I try to respect that if I am test driving a car and don't intend to buy then I am wasting the sales person's time and their ability to earn a living. When you test drive a car, how do you approach the sales person asking to test drive and afterwards, do you just say you want to think about it? Do you give them your contact info, such as your cell phone# or email address? I am interested in the diplomatic strategy you employ.

I'm by no means a test drive expert. The Mustang I drove (and bought) almost a year ago and the F-150 I drove a few weeks ago are the only proper test drives I've done in the past year. I intended to buy the Mustang if we could strike a deal, so there was no need to waffle there. The F-150, I told the salesperson I wasn't really in the market but a few of my friends had one and told me I needed to drive one (completely true). After the test drive, she asked whether there was anything she could do to get the ball rolling today. I acknowledged it was the end of the month but told her I'd take a card and let her know if I wanted to pursue it further. Dealer already had all my info because I'd had the Mustang serviced there. I haven't gotten a follow-up call or otherwise been bothered.

As a general rule, I think it's probably fair for those of us in this group to say that we're always looking but don't have a specific timeframe in mind for a purchase. I agree with @roadburner, skip it if it's a busy time for the dealer. But, it's part of the salesperson's job description to give test drives to people who may or may not proceed with a purchase.

corvette

On another note, here in Louisville, unlike roadburner, my family and I have had very mixed results with the (former) Swope dealerships as a whole, including one or more bad experiences with their BMW, Cadillac, Volvo, and VW franchises. It's quite unfortunate to hear that, under AMSI's management, the BMW dealership seems to have taken a turn for the worse.

benjaminh

nyccarguy said:

benjaminh said:

Which Preludes had four wheel steering?

Prepare to be semi-bored. In an effort to make their front wheel drive cars handle more like rear wheel drive cars and have a tighter turning radius for easier parking (good handling FWD cars traditionally have a very wide turning radius), Honda developed a mechanical 4 wheel steering system for it's 3rd generation Prelude in (I believe MY 1988). The rear wheels turn ever so slightly (I'm not sure of the exact degree) with the front wheels to make parking easier. The rear wheels turn ever so slightly in the opposite direction of the front wheels to make the typical "nose heavy" FWD car handle better than it should. The result is also a car that is extremely stable when changing lanes....

Here's how much the rear wheels can turn with paws on the Acura TLX. My guess is that this is similar to what the 4WS Preludes had:

"The maximum amount of rear-wheel toe angle adjustment is 1.8 degrees in either direction (positive or negative) for a total range of 3.6 degrees."

But you can feel it. It's not even that subtle. I'm shocked that all the reviews of the TLX have said, more or less: "you can't feel the four-wheel steering on the TLX and it makes no difference."

??

I'm guessing that PAWS is going to die with this TLX in about a year. Must cost a fair amount to engineer and make, and since no one said much that was nice about it, and the market seems indifferent, it seems likely to be cut when it comes to the all-new c. 2020 TLX. Get 4WS while you can? Might be dead again soon....

henryn

I probably do 4 or 5 test drives for every purchase I make. I suspect for some here, that number would me more like 10 or 20. I guess that makes me a pretty good candidate.

On the other hand, I probably do 20 or 30 "test sits" for every "test drive". If there's not enough head room, or a console that infringes on my knee space, or if I can't get the proper relationship between the steering wheel, the foot pedals, and my butt on the seat, I never go for the drive.

stickguy

not sure if the price is good/bad/indifferent, but at least the miles are good.

But mostly, I love this color combo. If it was a stick I might buy it!

http://www.eimports4less.com/detail-2009-bmw-3_series-certified_328i_xdrive_awd_xenons_navigation-used-17857370.html

stickguy

henryn said:

I probably do 4 or 5 test drives for every purchase I make. I suspect for some here, that number would me more like 10 or 20. I guess that makes me a pretty good candidate.

On the other hand, I probably do 20 or 30 "test sits" for every "test drive". If there's not enough head room, or a console that infringes on my knee space, or if I can't get the proper relationship between the steering wheel, the foot pedals, and my butt on the seat, I never go for the drive.

I browse all the time. And will often tell whoever (if someone does) comes by to help that I am just browsing around the showroom test sitting. Occasionally that does end up turning into a test drive. Never say never.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

not sure if the price is good/bad/indifferent, but at least the miles are good.

But mostly, I love this color combo. If it was a stick I might buy it!

http://www.eimports4less.com/detail-2009-bmw-3_series-certified_328i_xdrive_awd_xenons_navigation-used-17857370.html

Nice! But also no back up camera, no CarPlay/AndroidAuto, etc., etc. If you're on a budget and can live without that stuff, and can deal with the likely high maintenance and repair costs of a 10 year old BMW, it could be a nice ride.

corvette

stickguy said:

not sure if the price is good/bad/indifferent, but at least the miles are good.

But mostly, I love this color combo. If it was a stick I might buy it!

http://www.eimports4less.com/detail-2009-bmw-3_series-certified_328i_xdrive_awd_xenons_navigation-used-17857370.html

That is a gorgeous color combo--you don't see the dark red often on those cars. Well equipped, but looks like no sport package.

stickguy

nope. I would miss the seats. Not the 18" wheels though.

henryn

benjaminh said:

Nice! But also no back up camera, no CarPlay/AndroidAuto, etc., etc. If you're on a budget and can live without that stuff, and can deal with the likely high maintenance and repair costs of a 10 year old BMW, it could be a nice ride.

This strikes me as being very self-evident contradiction.

"if you're on a budget ..."

vs

"and can deal with the likely high maintenance and repair costs"

benjaminh

henryn said:

benjaminh said:

Nice! But also no back up camera, no CarPlay/AndroidAuto, etc., etc. If you're on a budget and can live without that stuff, and can deal with the likely high maintenance and repair costs of a 10 year old BMW, it could be a nice ride.

This strikes me as being very self-evident contradiction.

"if you're on a budget ..."

vs

"and can deal with the likely high maintenance and repair costs"

True.

But compared to a new BMW at c. 40k plus you can still save a lot by buying a used one, even if you have to pay a fair amount for repairs and maintenance.

stickguy

that model should not be that bad. Assuming it was up to date and passed a PPI. But yes, likely to cost a bit more to run than a Civic. Offset of course, by costing a lot less than a comparable new car. Plus I have a really good indy shop nearby.

the features, yes I would be giving up some goodies, but it would be a spare car so not that big a deal. At least it has parking sensors!

kyfdx

stickguy said:

that model should not be that bad. Assuming it was up to date and passed a PPI. But yes, likely to cost a bit more to run than a Civic. Offset of course, by costing a lot less than a comparable new car. Plus I have a really good indy shop nearby.

the features, yes I would be giving up some goodies, but it would be a spare car so not that big a deal. At least it has parking sensors!

Are there no interior pics? Or, am I missing them?