Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

kyfdx

0 F, last night.. 9 F, this morning, when I was leaving.

My attached, unheated garage was 42 F. (insulated, though). I was pretty happy with that.

28firefighter

It's not the heat that'll kill ya, it's the humidity.

Mr_Shiftright

ab348 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

well, where is the line? You have an old car. Have you upgraded anything at all? Modern tires, shocks, Electronic ignition?

I would think the "line" is the body. So if you plop a 1959 Corvette body on a 2018 Corvette chassis and running gear and interior (or parts thereof), then yes, it's still a "classic Corvette".

Funny you mention that. There is one of those locally. A C1 on a C4 or C5 chassis. People who spot that think of it as a curiosity, not a classic. I suppose it might impress non-car people who don’t know any better. If I owned it I doubt I’d get much satisfaction from that.

As for my car, it has white-letter radials. That’s all.

But how would they even know when they see it, unless the body were customized? I know of one using a '62 Vette on a C6 chassis, and there's really no way to tell unless you peek underneath or view the cockpit.

Mr_Shiftright

roadburner said:

Coker replicas; hardly "custom."

I would imagine having your own special size of tire made for you would be enormously expensive--even if you could convince someone to do it.

stickguy

I remember seeing on overhauling them getting custom tread designs cut. But the carcass has to start out some standard size.

Mr_Shiftright

You mean like a recap?

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

But how would they even know when they see it, unless the body were customized? I know of one using a '62 Vette on a C6 chassis, and there's really no way to tell unless you peek underneath or view the cockpit.

It looks different. Can't tell you why exactly and someone not into it wouldn't probably notice, but it's off somehow.

If someone takes a rusted hulk of an old car and builds a restomod with it, I suppose that's OK since it wouldn't make sense to restore it. Bolt on as much catalog stuff as you want. A fellow I know did that with a rusty and tired '54 Chevy convertible. Spent a ton of money on it, 6 figures. Looks mostly stock outside but a custom interior, different suspension and brakes. crate engine, the usual stuff. Whoever did it, did a nice job. I suspect he would get a fraction of what he put into it if he wanted to sell.

stickguy

I see no problem with bolting on modern parts for driveability and safety. Assuming you want to drive your classic, not trailer it to shows. All stuff you can undo if you want to put the old parts back in.

How much depends on how old. Don’t need as much when you get into the 70s and could have come originally with headrests, seatbelts, power disk brakes, AC, etc. so I would not do much to a ‘73 chevelle. A ‘65, different Story!

Mr_Shiftright

Can you tell that this is on a C4 chassis? (Be careful, maybe I'm lying about this) Or is it a stock ;59 Vette with disc brakes all around and lowered a bit, with custom wheels?

More to the point, it looks "classic", not modern.

stickguy

Like the car, hate the wheels on it

kyfdx

stickguy said:

Like the car, hate the wheels on it

If those are just custom wheels and brakes, the brakes are massive, and over-done, assuming the car has a stock powerplant.

Therefore, I guess C4 chassis.

Something with a 15" wheel would look awesome!

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

Can you tell that this is on a C4 chassis? (Be careful, maybe I'm lying about this) Or is it a stock ;59 Vette with disc brakes all around and lowered a bit, with custom wheels?

More to the point, it looks "classic", not modern.

That dude must be TINY to make that car look that large

Mr_Shiftright

Well America's idea of a "sports car" didn't include "tiny". A '59 Corvette is nearly 180 inches long and weighs over 3,000 lbs. This ain't no Miata!

Modern mid-size SUVs are in the 190-195" range.

qbrozen

Weird. Whenever I have seen them in person, they strike me as very small. Was trying to find a similar pic with a more normal human, but no luck.

omarman

I googled corvettes cruising and found something completely different.

American built Israeli SA’AR5 corvettes

Mr_Shiftright

The original sea-going Corvettes were apparently one of the most miserable vessels to serve on.

au1994

Taking a generic Camaro or Nova and turning it into a restomod, pro tourer or full blown custom doesn’t bother me nor does dropping a C3 body on a C6 frame. Same with dropping a vintage truck on a newer 4x4 frame.

For some reason the ‘tribute’ or ‘recreation’ cars just bother me. It’s either an original GT 350 or it isn’t. It’s either an original Hemi ‘Cuda or it isn’t.

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

The original sea-going Corvettes were apparently one of the most miserable vessels to serve on.

Yes, they were not designed for trans-ocean use and rolled very badly, and their quarters were primitive and not designed for as large a crew as they ended up with.

The only surviving Flower-class corvette is based here in my town:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Sackville_(K181)

breld

Wow!  Right timing and right buyer I guess.  

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-acura-rsx-4/

I was thinking $12-13k would have been strong for the seller and a decent buy for someone who really wanted it.  

28firefighter

breld said:

Wow!  Right timing and right buyer I guess.  

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-acura-rsx-4/

I was thinking $12-13k would have been strong for the seller and a decent buy for someone who really wanted it.  

Sweet jeebus.

stickguy

I saw that one and liked it. but if that is close to what the market is, I will never have one! Maybe I should have kept my old Integra. It might be appreciating!

Mr_Shiftright

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/d/moraga-2004-acura-rsx-type-6-speed/6791876072.html

28firefighter

I'm pretty sure with the proper marketing, photos, and PPI report, I could sell a cardboard box with wheels on it on BaT. As long as the IMS is done, of course.

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/d/moraga-2004-acura-rsx-type-6-speed/6791876072.html

Why you showing us? Buy it NOW and flip it while the gettin is good!

stickguy

here is a great example of what I was talking about, in terms of taking a classic car, and giving it modern upgrades while keeping the look as original as possible. I still consider this a classic:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-pontiac-firebird-9/

interesting comment in the comment section that pretty well explains what I was going for:

"I’m in the process of the same resto-mid with my first classic car purchase, a ‘70 GTO… have had it for 20 years in good OE shape and just didn’t enjoy driving it. Not overly fast with the 400, didn’t handle well, braked funky with the front disc and rear drums. It just looked & sounded better than it drove…
So a GM crate LS3, Welwood brakes, Hochkis suspension and new trans all added similarly to this build, and it has made Ana amazing difference to the ride and handling. Now it is beyond fun and exciting to drive"

Mr_Shiftright

Exactly. You can have way more fun with your "classic", or you can stand around at car shows arguing over whether the valve cover bolts are correct for your model GTO and if 1970 models really had a "Caution Fan" sticker or was that only in 1971, and was it yellow and therefore the green one on your car is incorrect. Whoopie!

pensfan83

On the RSX I kicked a few around but so many looked worn out, were poorly modified, or people were asking for the moon. I saw that one on BaT and I would have bowed out at barely half the price.

Mr_Shiftright

Certainly $9K-$10K is all the money. I don't know what went horribly wrong with the bidding but you know, there are outliers in any transaction.

Michaell

Like the Firebird - a close friend of my moms had a coupe in a similar color. I think it had the 400 in it.

My never-ending tour of the local car dealerships continued today. I mentioned the Compass Trailhawk I drove a couple weeks ago, and how much I disliked it.

Today, I decided to go up a size and test the Cherokee Trailhawk. Minimally equipped (cold weather package and comfort/convenience group), stickered for just under $37K.

This one had the 3.2L V6 in it, along with the 9-speed automatic. This is a much better combination, in my opinion. It didn't hunt as much between gears, and I think the top 3 or 4 ratios are all OD, for use on the highway.

I like the looks of the Trailhawk, as it reshapes the front fascia to accommodate better approach angles (snow, rocks, small streams). Also an additional 1" of ground clearance. Much more masculine than the other trim levels - might as well get a CR-V if you're gonna do that.

From the passenger seat, I was able to find a comfortable driving position. The only small quibble would be that the tilt wheel doesn't tilt up enough - it didn't obstuct my vision of the dash, just might have been a skosh more comfortable for my hands. Leather wrapped wheel, nice infotainment system, decent materials on the inside. I get that it will never have the interior accommodations of the Q7 @breld has, but it's OK enough. I haven't had a chance to take a ride in the Tacoma @jpp75 picked up a month or two ago, but I suspect it's similar.

What surprised me most on the test drive was how comfortable the ride was. Remember, this is configured for more off road duty, so more aggressive tires, and I'd guess some changes to the suspension pieces. Driving around in urban traffic, it was pretty docile and quiet. Yeah, there was some engine noise when I booted it, but nothing too obtrusive. It does have start/stop technology, and I didn't mind that, either.

I'd have to do some size comparisons to the SUVs we've had in the past - the 2 VUEs, the CX-7 and the Outback - to see how much bigger or smaller it is. It didn't feel that big, to me.

Overall, a nice package and something that I could do some light off-roading with, if I so desired.

stickguy

I probably should have actually checked one of those out in person. Length wise, it is just about the same as our RDX so I assume comparable cargo space. There were a couple on Honcker last week (loaded trailhawks) for a good price.

I will scope it out next month at the car show.

stickguy

speaking of leases, I continue to be amused by some of the deals on Honcker. this weekend there was an RDX Advance up, at not a bad (for them) price. But, it was the Acura basic 7,500 mile/year lease. So out of curiosity, I changed it to 10,000 miles. Monthly cost jumped a full $100! Would cost less than half that to buy the 7,500, and pay the overage at $.20/mile (about $40/month).

roadburner

Mr_Shiftright said:

Exactly. You can have way more fun with your "classic", or you can stand around at car shows arguing over whether the valve cover bolts are correct for your model GTO and if 1970 models really had a "Caution Fan" sticker or was that only in 1971, and was it yellow and therefore the green one on your car is incorrect. Whoopie!

I think I've mentioned this before, but I've always thought a 1973 Corvette with a Chevrolet Performance crate motor and upgraded suspension would be a lot of fun. The nice thing is, a Corvette without matching numbers takes a hit compared to an "all original" car, so you can pick a less than pristine example up for a relatively cheap price.

stickguy

I 2nd the corvette idea. I would do this with a more mainstream model, not messing up something more unique or special. So a base Chevelle 2 door, not an SS454.

ab348

stickguy said:

here is a great example of what I was talking about, in terms of taking a classic car, and giving it modern upgrades while keeping the look as original as possible. I still consider this a classic:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-pontiac-firebird-9/

interesting comment in the comment section that pretty well explains what I was going for:

"I’m in the process of the same resto-mid with my first classic car purchase, a ‘70 GTO… have had it for 20 years in good OE shape and just didn’t enjoy driving it. Not overly fast with the 400, didn’t handle well, braked funky with the front disc and rear drums. It just looked & sounded better than it drove…
So a GM crate LS3, Welwood brakes, Hochkis suspension and new trans all added similarly to this build, and it has made Ana amazing difference to the ride and handling. Now it is beyond fun and exciting to drive"

Well, doing what the guy said he did is probably $25K. That’s not including what you paid for the car. You’d still need to deal with the fuel system, cooling, AC/heat, and wiring. Don’t forget wheels and tires. Oh, and steering box. Don’t forget the endless fiddling to get all that stuff to work together properly. Then unless it has recently been done there is body/paint and chrome. Interior can be done cheap and wrong or correct and more pricey or “custom” and really pricey. If you go with the first two you get only basic 2-way adjustable seats. Crank window and non-power seats and locks are almost universal on a ‘60s car remember, so could you live with that? The mitaswells can add up really quickly and once you’ve had it for a while you give up trying to do things on the cheap because things drive you nuts and it seems justified to pay someone whatever it takes to fix. $50-60K for all that is probable.

IMO you would be far better off both financially and satisfaction-wise buying a late model fun car. Anything from a Mustang or Camaro convertible or a Boxster or a BMW of some sort. Performs better in every way, no headaches and far cheaper. Take it to Cars and Coffee and knock yourself out.

nyccarguy

roadburner said:

Exactly. You can have way more fun with your "classic", or you can stand around at car shows arguing over whether the valve cover bolts are correct for your model GTO and if 1970 models really had a "Caution Fan" sticker or was that only in 1971, and was it yellow and therefore the green one on your car is incorrect. Whoopie!

I think I've mentioned this before, but I've always thought a 1973 Corvette with a Chevrolet Performance crate motor and upgraded suspension would be a lot of fun. The nice thing is, a Corvette without matching numbers takes a hit compared to an "all original" car, so you can pick a less than pristine example up for a relatively cheap price.

Especially an “unloved” C3.  As long as “the glass” is in decent shape, you’re good to go.

nyccarguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

Exactly. You can have way more fun with your "classic", or you can stand around at car shows arguing over whether the valve cover bolts are correct for your model GTO and if 1970 models really had a "Caution Fan" sticker or was that only in 1971, and was it yellow and therefore the green one on your car is incorrect. Whoopie!

So true.  My dad’s ‘66 Corvette has  the hood of a ‘67 because he liked it better when he had it repainted 30 something years ago.

qbrozen

ab348 said:

here is a great example of what I was talking about, in terms of taking a classic car, and giving it modern upgrades while keeping the look as original as possible. I still consider this a classic: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-pontiac-firebird-9/ interesting comment in the comment section that pretty well explains what I was going for: "I’m in the process of the same resto-mid with my first classic car purchase, a ‘70 GTO… have had it for 20 years in good OE shape and just didn’t enjoy driving it. Not overly fast with the 400, didn’t handle well, braked funky with the front disc and rear drums. It just looked & sounded better than it drove… So a GM crate LS3, Welwood brakes, Hochkis suspension and new trans all added similarly to this build, and it has made Ana amazing difference to the ride and handling. Now it is beyond fun and exciting to drive"

Well, doing what the guy said he did is probably $25K. That’s not including what you paid for the car. You’d still need to deal with the fuel system, cooling, AC/heat, and wiring. Don’t forget wheels and tires. Oh, and steering box. Don’t forget the endless fiddling to get all that stuff to work together properly. Then unless it has recently been done there is body/paint and chrome. Interior can be done cheap and wrong or correct and more pricey or “custom” and really pricey. If you go with the first two you get only basic 2-way adjustable seats. Crank window and non-power seats and locks are almost universal on a ‘60s car remember, so could you live with that? The mitaswells can add up really quickly and once you’ve had it for a while you give up trying to do things on the cheap because things drive you nuts and it seems justified to pay someone whatever it takes to fix. $50-60K for all that is probable. IMO you would be far better off both financially and satisfaction-wise buying a late model fun car. Anything from a Mustang or Camaro convertible or a Boxster or a BMW of some sort. Performs better in every way, no headaches and far cheaper. Take it to Cars and Coffee and knock yourself out.

Kind of my thinking these days. Gotta get the Coronet put together and sold first, though. 

corvette

Michaell said:

From the passenger seat, I was able to find a comfortable driving position.

Say what? Is that like saying someone is "pretty ugly," or the product name "Microsoft Works?"

Michaell

corvette said:

Michaell said:

From the passenger seat, I was able to find a comfortable driving position.

Say what? Is that like saying someone is "pretty ugly," or the product name "Microsoft Works?"

Oh. Huh.

Guess I wasn't paying much attention when writing my review.

Good catch.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

speaking of leases, I continue to be amused by some of the deals on Honcker. this weekend there was an RDX Advance up, at not a bad (for them) price. But, it was the Acura basic 7,500 mile/year lease. So out of curiosity, I changed it to 10,000 miles. Monthly cost jumped a full $100! Would cost less than half that to buy the 7,500, and pay the overage at $.20/mile (about $40/month).

That's just something wrong with the app.

Going from 7.5K to 10K lowers the residual by 1%. On a 36 month lease of a $46K MSRP vehicle, that's only $13/mo. There are no other possible changes, because of mileage allowance.

stickguy

Maybe. Unless something different went into it. Incentives?

Michaell

stickguy said:

Maybe. Unless something different went into it. Incentives?

Incentives should be the same, regardless of term or mileage.

fintail

Wow, look at that interior - kind of pushes my buttons. If this was a full LED gauges car on one of their cheap leases, I'd almost be tempted.

stickguy

i Don’t know how the numbers get loaded from the dealer, but could be a different lease. Or a glitch. But, that’s what the BIN was!

stickguy

Love that color combo. And seats.

ab348

Now that's a PROPER interior! Love the colors and the light wood. Will your hockey gear fit in the trunk though?

Mr_Shiftright

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Exactly. You can have way more fun with your "classic", or you can stand around at car shows arguing over whether the valve cover bolts are correct for your model GTO and if 1970 models really had a "Caution Fan" sticker or was that only in 1971, and was it yellow and therefore the green one on your car is incorrect. Whoopie!

I think I've mentioned this before, but I've always thought a 1973 Corvette with a Chevrolet Performance crate motor and upgraded suspension would be a lot of fun. The nice thing is, a Corvette without matching numbers takes a hit compared to an "all original" car, so you can pick a less than pristine example up for a relatively cheap price.

It's kinda funny that Corvette buyers fuss over matching numbers but Ferrari buyers don't.

fintail

There's something kind of vintage about it, especially with the white wheel. That's how I would build one, too bad about the basic gauges, and the price. If it was one of their decent almost sign and drive leases, and had the right options, it would be tempting. If I end up leasing again and pick an E, the gauge package is almost a deal breaker.

I think a hockey bag would fit fine - a "comfort box" (an accessory collapsible container in the middle of the trunk) would get in the way though. The Bluetec has it, and although it is great for storing car care stuff and groceries, it gets in the way otherwise, and blocks access for long items through the rear seat pass-thru. I don't want to remove the comfort box every time I need the space, so I just put sticks in the back seat.

Gear in a G-Wagen would be no problem, I still want to test drive one and get it out of my system.

ab348 said:

Now that's a PROPER interior! Love the colors and the light wood. Will your hockey gear fit in the trunk though?

corvette

Mr_Shiftright said:

Exactly. You can have way more fun with your "classic", or you can stand around at car shows arguing over whether the valve cover bolts are correct for your model GTO and if 1970 models really had a "Caution Fan" sticker or was that only in 1971, and was it yellow and therefore the green one on your car is incorrect. Whoopie!

I think I've mentioned this before, but I've always thought a 1973 Corvette with a Chevrolet Performance crate motor and upgraded suspension would be a lot of fun. The nice thing is, a Corvette without matching numbers takes a hit compared to an "all original" car, so you can pick a less than pristine example up for a relatively cheap price.

It's kinda funny that Corvette buyers fuss over matching numbers but Ferrari buyers don't.

I’m guessing a Ferrari engine has to be shipped off to the motherland and exchanged, whereas a lot of people can rebuild a Chevy small block in their back yard. 

Mr_Shiftright

Ferrari will make you an entirely new engine, identical to the original, and even stamp it as an original. Buying old Ferraris can be treacherous. However, as long as the vintage Ferrari has a "period correct" engine, the numbers don't have to match. It was expected that these older cars were gleefully raced, and that the engines would be destroyed.