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What's your reason for buying a Hybrid?

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Comments

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    You really dont know whats in a Package 6 Prius do you?

    The Passat 2.0T is a midsized vehicle. You left that out of the mix. The Prius has more features, more room inside, a smoother ride and is more reliable AND costs $2000 less AND gets better mileage for the entire life of the vehicle AND has a much lower cost-of-ownership over its life. There is NO hybrid penalty vis-a-vis the Passat.

    Just layout the Prius vs the Passat. As I said to the other poster it'll surprise you.

    I never mentioned comparing Bimmers, Lexus' and Audi's to the Prius. What I said was.. those are the typical buyers who are taking the Prius' off the lot. I sell to them. They dont trade their driving vehicles they just buy the Prius because it's less expensive for their daily driving and they are not riding in an econo-box. They keep the driving vehicle for fun and buy the Prius because it suits them and they can afford it.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Only for cost of ownership.. Edmunds here is much better for comparing features and stats. Do the research. It's not hard to do.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    You really dont know whats in a Package 6 Prius do you?
    I know EXACTLY what is included in pkg 6, which is why your statement makes no sense at all.

    The Prius has more features,
    Which features?

    Prius does NOT HAVE leather, heated seats, or sunroof. And why should it, Prius is an ECONOMY car.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Again here is the conundrum that the press articles you so often refer to are not understanding.

    It is NOT the Sonata, Malibu, Saturn L oowners who are buying the Prius most often. These buyers are value buyers and the Prius is out of their price range for the most part. These buyers would like the hybrids to be in the $20K range but they arent. So they skip buying one for the time being.

    It's a brilliant job of product placement.

    Well then who IS buying all of them so that there is none to be had? The ones I mentioned previously see the value of the Prius and can afford to buy it and pay for the upscale features.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    never mentioned comparing Bimmers, Lexus' and Audi's to the Prius. What I said was.. those are the typical buyers who are taking the Prius' off the lot.

    You are correct!

    BUT a Passat owner will most likely not drive his VW as a second car to save fuel! He will buy it as a full time vehicle and may likely replace his BMW, Acura or Audi with a Passat.

    A big distinction with what you are saying and why a Passat cannot compare with a Prius!
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    A Prius is more comparable to a Yaris than a Passat.

    In fact the Yaris does have passenger/cargo efficiency(maybe not as much as a Prius) and is a gas miser like a Prius!

    Your Prius Passat comparison reminds me of a Ford TV Ad from the mid 1970s:

    Ford showed a group of Germans in Lederhosen drinking big flasks of beer and dancing polkas somewhere in Bavaria! Ford announced that the group of Germans will do a test drive comparison between a Ford Granada and a Mercedes Benz280!

    And guess which car they chose? A bit contrived dont you think?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Ok since you wont do the research yourself...

    Sunroof.. cannot be put in a Prius because of the proximity sensor in the roof. 50% of the market refuses to have a S/R anyway. tossup
    Leather will be in the '06 model pckg 8.. but many have put it in aftermarket in '05. tossup
    Heated seats? Ok nice touch +1 for the Passat
    BTW.. In the 2.0L standard model it's only leatherette in the Passat with seat heater optonal. see Edmunds comparo
    Bluetooth capability: nein Pssat +1 Prius
    SKS : nein Passat +1 Prius
    driving fun: define fun because the Passat is fun and so is the Prius in a different way. definite tossup
    Prius is MUCH cleaner than the Passat in emmisions: BIG +1 Prius

    In every other way they are the same except the Prius is $2K less expensive
    way more reliable
    less costly to own over a lifetime

    The Passat is a nice midsized vehicle. It just loses in a lot of ways to the Prius.. but it's close. Those are the facts.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Demographics

    quote -They drive fewer miles on average-end

    They pay more to drive less.
    So much for being educated. Must have studied liberal arts.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Actually here its Navy nuke engineers and a large number of NASA engineers at the research facility here and LOTs of doctors. Do I sense an anti-education slant to your comment?
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Bluetooth capability: nein Pssat +1 Prius
    SKS : nein Passat +1 Prius


    Finally, you finally coughed up your answer.

    Bluetooth for hands free phone and the Smart Key System.

    Bluetooth is a feature of little value. Unless you value distracted drivers. Cell phone and driving equals menace to the public IMO.

    SKS - It is not something I would want. It is a feature that is included on some high end vehicles so I will concede that it is a luxury feature. On the Passat you actually have to turn the key as opposed to pushing a button on the Prius.

    You say that a sunroof is refused by 50% of the public. Strange that SR is standard on most Lexus and Acura models.
    Every top of the line Civic has sunroof.
    Strange that Honda added the SR as standard equipment for 2006.

    So, are you saying that these high income Lexus, Bimmer, and Audi buyers that are used to standard Leather, Heated Seats, and Sunroof suddenly do not want expect these features when they shop the Prius? Intersting.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Do I sense an anti-education slant to your comment?

    If you do, your sensors are malfunctioning.

    I was simply noticing that Philosophy appears to be more important than Accounting in the purchase of a Hybrid.

    Being kind to the environment more important than saving money.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    A Prius is more comparable to a Yaris than a Passat.

    Thats so ludicrous that I cant take what youre saying seriously anymore dewey. It was fun but comparing a 27000 vehicle to a 12000 vehicle is nonsensical.

    If you refuse to do the comparison then there is nothing I can say to help you out:
    They are the same size..
    in the same price category..
    have similar features..
    they are comparable...
    just different.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Midsized car buyers mostly do not demand S/R's and lots of them refuse them. It's about 50/50. It's obviously not an issue.

    So, are you saying that these high income Lexus, Bimmer, and Audi buyers that are used to standard Leather, Heated Seats, and Sunroof suddenly do not want expect these features when they shop the Prius? Intersting

    That is exactly the case for the very reasons you saw in the article you posted on demographics.

    It's the upscale touches like SKS and bluetooth that bring in the buyers shown in that demographic. But like everything else these are not everyone's cup of tea.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    was simply noticing that Philosophy appears to be more important than Accounting in the purchase of a Hybrid.

    Being kind to the environment more important than saving money.


    That's precisely what that article you posted stated. But if saving money is paramount there are millions of used vehicles out there at <$10K which will last 10 yrs more. Better yet to save the most money keep the present vehicle or just walk/bike.

    The Hybrid car buyers do NOT buy primarily to save money. That's the press misspeaking. They buy because they like the vehicles. They like them enough to clean the lots out, except the HAH.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    They like them enough to clean the lots out, except the HAH.

    The lots are cleaned out at 1% of the total market.
    How much of a market is there for hybrids?

    JD Power-The report shows that hybrids, which accounted for 0.5 percent of the U.S. market in 2004, are expected to increase to 3.5 percent market share by 2012, while diesels are expected to grow from 3 percent market share in 2004 to 7.5 percent.-end JD Power

    Even in 2012 only 3.5% of the market is expected to be hybrids. It is going to be a long time before the market is tested.

    0.5% in 2004 and 1% in 2005. Hybrids are rarer than the Ivory Billed Woodpecker! ;)
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Hybrids are rare today... but the Prius alone sold more than ALL diesel passenger vehicles in the US. Gotta love dem hybreds (sic).

    LOL
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    http://www.hybridcars.com/hybrids-symbols-of-identity.html

    Bradley Berman, editor of HybridCars.com, spoke with Kurani and Heffner on Dec. 21, 2005.

    Bradley Berman: What is the primary goal of your research?

    Rusty Heffner: We're trying to understand what motivates people to buy a new kind of vehicle. As Americans, when you are buying a car, you have so many choices. You have over 300 combinations of make and model. Why does somebody consider a new technology like a hybrid?

    Ken Kurani: We learned from our first sets of interviews to throw out our assumptions, to start from scratch rather than, in effect, go into an interview with a checklist of things to look for. To go into interviews with a wide-open mind, and let the stories tell us what was important about what people were doing. And then Rusty developed an analytical approach to deal with cars as symbols of identities.

    BB: What do you mean by "symbols of identities?"

    KK: In an increasingly market-based society, the things we buy are more and more a part of representations of who we are. And cars are incredibly important symbols of who we are, in large part, because cars are so mobile and so many people see them everyday.

    Also, I think our identities are constructed as narratives. And we're always looking for new elements for those narratives. We're comparing the stories we have about ourselves today to older stories and to ideal stories. In those comparisons, we're looking for either new ways to either advance the storyline we like, or change the one we don't like. The idea of what a car means can be one of those important story elements.

    BB: Journalists commonly criticize hybrid cars for not providing a return on investment for their owners. Based on your research, what's your opinion of that criticism?

    RH: I think the question journalists are asking is, 'Do hybrids save money?" It's the wrong question. A more basic question to ask is, "Do people who are buying hybrid cars really care about saving money?" The truth is that everybody likes to save money in the abstract. But we found in our research that saving money is not the primary motivator for buying a hybrid vehicle. Some people might think about hybrids as ways to save money. Those are not the types of people who are buying these types of vehicles.

    KK: In the interviews, we heard that people who bought a hybrid compared it to nothing else. Once they heard about a Prius, for example, and heard about its capabilities, that became the car they needed next to advance a certain story line. At that point, keeping their old car was no longer desirable.
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    Which of the following best describes why you own a hybrid?

    a) to make a statement

    b) for the tax credit and other perks

    c) because they&#146;re environmentally friendly

    d) to save money at the pump

    e) to be the first to own new technology

    Please submit a few sentences to support your response no later than Wednesday, January 25, 2006. Be sure to include your Forums username. Thanks! (wclarke@edmunds.com)
  • d) to save money at the pump
    and
    e) to be the first to own new technology
  • pdxdriverpdxdriver Posts: 1
    The Prius is NOT an economy car at $25,000 - 30,000. The compact luxury car market is largely ignored by manufacturers.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    gary says "You or no other anti diesel poster have come up with any test results of a modern diesel engine burning ULSD that was any dirtier than the other vehicles in the same class burning gasoline. That includes the new Blutec that passed the 2009 emissions. CARB just does not trust the owner to maintain the vehicle at those levels."

    Firstly, I am not an "anti-diesel" poster. I am an "anti-DIRTY-diesel" poster. Big difference.

    Gary says: "To get closer to home. I don't recall you saying you would not buy a 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid that was only rated a "TWO" in the non CARB states. There were many cars with better emissions."

    I had no choice in the pollution score of the hybrid I bought. I did not know a lick about hybrid or EPA pollution scores until AFTER I bought my first hybrid. I live in a non-CARB state, so I could not choose the cleanliness of my car based on that criteria anyway, had I known to do so.

    gary says-"In fact the Avalanche you traded in was a "3" on the EPA site. So you were only interested in getting better mileage. It had nothing to do with emissions. Yet you poo poo anyone that would buy a diesel to get better mileage because it is not up to the highest possible PZEV standard. If that is not hypocrisy what might it be?

    I needed an Avalanche because I had a seven-member family. And that was WAY before I knew anything about EPA pollution scores.

    As far as diesel getting good MPG - that's only a PART of the requirement in my mind. High MPG plus clean emissions is the combo I look for. Right now the diesel cars only do one half of the equation.

    gary says-"I wonder how you sleep at night knowing that your car is part of Toyota's scheme to sell more gas guzzling high polluting vehicles."

    Toyota has a "plan to sell more gas guzzling high pollution vehicles?" I'd like to see that press release - could you provide a link please?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,162
    Toyota has a "plan to sell more gas guzzling high pollution vehicles?" I'd like to see that press release - could you provide a link please?

    How is this? Do you think Toyota will spend $100,000,000 in advertising to triple the sales of hybrids this year? Only in your dreams.

    Toyota, meanwhile, is about to launch its third attempt to crack the Chevy-Ford-Dodge stranglehold on the large pickup market. The Tundra matches the Detroit half-ton trucks in size and most measures of power. Toyota is confident enough in the Tundra that it has tooled up enough production capacity within the U.S. -- including the new Texas plant -- to churn out more than 300,000 Tundras a year, triple the current sales level for the truck.

    Toyota officials said the Tundra marketing campaign, with a budget of more than $100 million, will be the biggest and most comprehensive in its 50-plus year history in the U.S. Jim Farley, the Toyota executive leading the effort, believes grass-roots efforts are the way to boost Toyota's credibility


    Toyota to sell more gas guzzlers
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Gary, are you missing the point entirely?

    Here is the key:

    "Toyota, meanwhile, is about to launch its third attempt to crack the Chevy-Ford-Dodge stranglehold on the large pickup market."

    That's not about "intentionally selling polluting vehicles" it's about "beating the competition at what they do best."

    Whether we like it or not, Toyota is in business to MAKE MONEY. As is Ford, Nissan, GM, DC, MB, Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Volvo, et al.

    Why would Toyota not want that market? If the trucks are going to be sold ANYWAY, which they ARE, then why should Toyota be not allowed to go after it?

    No company in the world has put more clean hybrids on the world's roads than Toyota.

    You'll notice Toyota is also one of the hardest working comapnies at trying to "green up" their operations:

    Green Watch
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,162
    The only thing green about Toyota is their bank accounts. They would have never gotten involved with hybrids if Japan had not pushed them in that direction. Japan was trying to save face over a flawed Kyoto Treaty.

    You can believe they are doing something to make the air better. I don't believe they do anything that is not advantageous to Toyota and Japan.

    If what you are saying is true they would tell the EU we have hybrids for certain classes of vehicles and that is your choice. They sell dirty diesels to the whole rest of the World including Mexico and Canada. So if they are so polluting (as you incorrectly say they are) we are getting it from both sides of US.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Who cares "why" they put hundreds of thousands of hybrids on the road? The point is that they DID, and no one else has done that much.

    Ignoring that contribution seems kinda spiteful.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,162
    Kind of a par with the Columbian Drug lords that build schools and hospitals with their drug money.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 6,064
    Time to put this one to rest as you've apparently said all you have to say on reasons for buying a hybrid and are trying to turn this one into Hybrids versus Diesels as well.

    If you want to debate diesels, try the new Is this the "Day of the Diesel" discussion.

    Should you wish to discuss why you bought a particular hybrid vehcile, try one of the many vehicle groups we have here in the Hybrid Vehicles Message Board like the New Prius Owners - Give Us Your Report discussion, where new Prius owners can let us know what they love about their brand new ride!

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