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VW Jetta TDI

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  • jogousajogousa Posts: 402
    I also heard (from VW) that manual transmission (pads on clutch that normally wear out after certain time) is designed for 1 million + applications therefore you may not have to change clutch pads as long as you own the car; i.e. they will last beyond all other moving components. I remember changing pads on manual clutch way back, when I lived in Europe.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,904
    Translate this to German, and we may have the VW Clutch Pad Designers' Planvnerhugen: http://www.matthewbarr.co.uk/sounds/1million.wav
  • jogousajogousa Posts: 402
    I like your jokes, elias! Austin Powers rules!
  • jogousajogousa Posts: 402
    Few weeks ago I noticed some water in the spare tire well. I took the spare tire out each time and there was appx 1/2" of water there. Finally, today, when I took the spare tire out I found the leak. The inside wall of rear bumper (inside the spare tire well facing backwards), where sheet metal layers overlap, I found a stream of water coming from the end of 2 metal sheets overlap, where the putty is applied on the seam, on the assembly line. The putty wasn't applied on all overlaps and that is where the leak was. I dried the spot with hair dryer and sealed the overlapping metal sheets with "quick steel" putty. Hopefully that will cure the problem.
    I urge all owners of Jetta sedans and Wagons to take out the spare tire from the well and see, if it is dry. If not, you have to locate the spot, where water leaks, and seal it. Not that many folks look there frequently, perhaps only when you need to change the flat. I would be interested if anyone out there on this Forum have had similar problem.
  • longo2longo2 Posts: 347
    Amazing!

    From your description of your leaky Jetta, it sounds just like what Ford did for years that ruined all the F 150 and up boxes. They too had 2 sheets of metal overlaping and the open seam is right above the rear tires. This allows all the road salt, sand, and other debris to get blasted into the open joint, drain down and accumulate in between the 2 sheets of metal that is sealed at the box lip.

    The only way out for that toxic mix is right through the fender just above the rear wheels.

    As I was doing repairs to mine, I spotted the problem and can not believe that Ford let that go for years. All they had to do was just what you (and I) did...seal that seam! It has eventually ruined every Ford truck box in Canada, and any boxes in the U.S. in wet States and where salt is used.

    My point is, try and find the seam from underneath where the water hits it and seal it outside too so no water and salt can get through between the 2 sheets, stop and start munching metal at your inner repair.

    Don't get me started on the Chysler cars from the 70's where some genious convinced the Brass that they could save $5.00 on each car (that's how much it cost me to put mine in) by not putting in the plastic inner front fender liners...as I recall they went bankrup then too from all the rusted out fenders they had to replace and then got a Govt . Bailout.

    Mind you, in Florida, without driving in salt spray for 5 months of the year like we do, I'm sure you will have a new Subaru TDI wagon before your Jetta rusts out.
  • jogousajogousa Posts: 402
    Well the way I noticed (that something is strange) was that my windows kept fogging inside the car. Reminds me a few years back, when one of my kids did not have a diaper and on a long drive on I-5 I couldn't figure out, why my windows all of a sudden started fogging out. The kid peed on the seat (while asleep) and the moisture was the culprit.

    Yes, in FL, in Spring and Summer, we have a monsoon rain at least once a day. Granted, no salt - thanks God.

    But typically, these cars and metal sheet seams are designed in such a way that "when water comes in - water drains out". Rear stop/brake/backing light cluster assemblies are one of such designs.

    If I would not have found the leak, I was going to open of of the pre-drilled holes on the bottom of the spare tire well (that are currently plugged by plastic/rubber plugs) and in that way "water would come in and water would drain out". There is also such thing as one-way water plugs that allow the water drain but the outside water does not leak in (Saab has several of them in the engine bay).

    When I visited assembly lines in Sweden (Saab + Volvo) and BMW near Munich, I saw them, how they seal these overlapping metal sheets - It is one of the few tasks that "humans" do, most of other work on assembly lines are robotics.

    In VW case, those "unhappy" assembly line workers (heard they was a strike there not long ago) obviously didn't do a good job sealing those overlapping metal sheets with the putty before the car is dipped into a paint bath.

    Another problem is that those overlapping metal sheets may not be only underneath the car. VW has many draining passages throughout the body that one has to seal it inside. For example, sunroof/moon-roof drains through inside passages, windshield wiper wells have drainage inside the fenders, etc.etc. There are quite a few drainage passages inside the skeleton of the car. One can see those clearly, when you watch the electric spot welding of the body on car assembly lines.
  • longo2longo2 Posts: 347
    That is more potential rust issues than the entire VW factory peeing in each car as it rolls off the line!

    I think you have just introduced some scary information that will cause new Jetta owners some extra walks to the bathroom in the middle of the night.
  • jogousajogousa Posts: 402
    I hope those, that you have mentioned, don't need diapers nor do they drive....
  • longo2longo2 Posts: 347
    While we fret about the cost of a VW rear wiper blade, I just noticed this item on VW Parts Outlet Center sale site...hope you Touareg V10'ers are strapped in........................

    ENGINE 07Z-100-011-M $35656

    $6600 81% 0ff Touareg V10TDI 04-05

    Over the counter engine price is $35,656 OMG! sounds like with 81% off tho, we should stock up.

    BTW when I checked Jogo's comment about his favorite wiper blades I ran across this deal..

    "With every Valeo ULTIMATE Wiper Blade you purchase from Tire Rack’s in-stock inventory, you will receive one free! Offer valid while supplies last. Valeo ULTIMATE OE Wiper Blades not included in this offer." :shades:
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Posts: 4,085
    I beleive this.... ESPECIALLY with a TDI. WIth all that torque - one does not even have to touch the throttle to enguage the clutch. Dont forget that HEAT destroys a clutch and at Idle, you cannot generate much heat.

    Said another way.... since your clutch is fully enguaged BEFORE you acclellerate, there is virtually zero clutch wear because it does not wear when fully-enguaged.

    Of course, a propery-driven manual will not wear out a clutch for over 200K miles even with a gasoline engine. (repeated personal experience!!)
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Posts: 4,085
    To help the rest of us -- What year vehicle are you talkiung about here?

    Do not forget that VW has the 12Year/unlimited Milage corrosion warantee. I can tell you from personal experience that VW DOES IN FACT honor it. (I got new front fenders due to the ol' foam-glue seperation issue)

    VWs are intended, engineerd, designed and developed for the long haul.... not 90K mile trade-in material.
  • shriftyshrifty Posts: 255
    I am quickly approaching the 40K service, currently around 38K. I think at my dealership I saw the number closer to $300, but I'll find out when I pay the bill. If I'm not mistaken, the transmission fluid is every 40K on this car? The 40K service seems to be one of the bigger services, obviously the timing belt is going to be more expensive when that time comes.
  • jogousajogousa Posts: 402
    I am talking about 2009 ...

    Well, 12 year unlimited mileage corrosion warranty - that's nice - OK then, tell me what they will do in a few years to honor that warranty - they will cut out the spare tire well with a torch and weld a new one? Fender can easily be replaced but what about part of the body, like a spare tire section that could rust off....if that part is cut off the car can actually collapse because the car has a uni-body (not frame) that many suspension components are attached to. Are you saying VW gives me a new car? I don't think so....

    I am sure there is a fine print somewhere there, what that 12 year/unlimited corrosion warranty actually covers....

    To hear water splashing in the spare tire well with every turn (I though originally that I have some drinking water, oil or wiper fluid moving in the trunk) isn't exactly what I want to hear, when I drive.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,896
    Repair of the leak should be done by the dealer. That way there is a defect record. Sounds like a breakdown at the factory level. Around here it would not be noticed. We have not had any rain since last February.
  • jogousajogousa Posts: 402
    I agree - but, how do you diagnose or find the source of the leak? How many visits (and time wasted) would it take for them to find the leak? It's not just a matter of hooking up the computer and find a problem code...I am just curious, how would they go around and locate precisely the spot where the water comes in other than keeping the car for number of days. It's just not very practical solution; i.e. the dealer to find a leak.

    I have a neighbor here with new Beetle, he had a sun-roof leak, had the car numerous times at the dealer, who could not figure out the problem. Eventually, his headliner was soaked up with the water. Headliner was replaced under warranty. But then I told him about the drainage passages in the gutter around the sunroof and sure enough, the dealer pushed some compressed air through those openings and the water was again draining properly through inside cavities of the car body as one of the drainage passages was clogged up with debris.

    Here you go, the customer has to find the leak and tell the VW service what to do.

    Didn't want to go through that ordeal myself.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,896
    Didn't want to go through that ordeal myself.

    I can understand your point. I tried to get the GMC dealer to get the door on my 05 PU adjusted so it was not leaking air. After several tries he gave up. I sold the truck which was easier and took less time than trying to get it fixed. No wonder dealer satisfaction is so low in this country. Wish we had a little rain. :)
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    A skilled body shop will often offer better results (and lower cost) when solving problems with air leaks around doors and glass and also with many types of water leaks into interior or trunk areas.

    A suggestion as for an alternate resource to dealers that can't seem to repair non-mechanical issues.
  • jogousajogousa Posts: 402
    I agree - but what about the warranty issue? A skilled body shop can't cover that....
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,904
    I've seen at least one case where GM dealer couldn't fix a problem on 3 tries and sent the car to a local/private shop. The problem was wrong/mismatched speedo-gears on each end of the speedo cable -1989 IROC-Z. There were an absurd number of combinations possible, given all the available speedo-head gears and transmission-end-of-speedo-cable gears.
    After 3 tries, the dealer sent my car out to a local speed shop which used a dynamometer to measure speed - and they cut a custom speedo gear so as to "certify" my speedometer.
    (the speed was reading about 1.75x too much when I took delivery!)

    water leaks can be tough to fix!
    For a 2006 VW beetle TDI water leak, it took the VW dealer 3 tries to fix it. But they did fix it.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Posts: 4,085
    You said ==> "I agree - but what about the warranty issue? A skilled body shop can't cover that.... "

    Excuse me!?!? My VW dealership DOES NOT HAVE a body-shop and actually TOLD me to get 3 estamates from local body-shops. Then, the dealership approved me to take my Jetta to skilled bodyshop. It was all paid-for by VW and still covered by warantee.

    It is scary how many people have apparently not read or do not understand how a warantee works.... then they offer advice based on this misunderstanding.

    BOTTOM LINE.. you do not have to have the dealership do the work. (they would like you to beleive that tho...)
  • Thanks. In the south we do not have many mornings when we need to defrost like y'all do up north. My 05 has been flawless like I said, but I was just wondering about any differences in the break-in period with the latest TDI iteration. I opted for manual because I heard from others about DSG not being quite right on the TDI. I'd like to see some empirical data on that and not just anecdotal conjecture. It was not a big deal because I prefer the manual tranny anyway. I appreciate your comments tangledup.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Posts: 4,085
    You chose wisely... the Manual xmission is far more reliable than any of the other choices of xmission.

    Dont forget that the DSG is really 2 manual xmissions that shift themselves with dual clutches that swap back and forth between them. All controllled by a computer which "knows" how much accelleration you are asking for with the throttle pedal along with 50 other sensor inputs

    Dont get me wrong, from perspective of technology and abilities, the DSG is perhaps one of the best "automatics" on the planet. However, it is very complex and requires constant maintenance to keep it working smootly. (fluid changes...etc).

    A properly-shifted manual xmission can match the DSG in smoothness and MPG. Many people do not want to take the time to learn how to REALLY drive a manual xmisison. For those folks, there is the DSG.... and spend $$ to keep it running.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Many people do not want to take the time to learn how to REALLY drive a manual xmisison. For those folks, there is the DSG.... and spend $$ to keep it running.

    Arrogance and condescension is prevailing attitude from manual drivers toward drivers of automatic transmissions. Choosing to drive automatic does not equate to lack of skill to operate a manual. Using myself as an example, I can drive vehicles from a tractor to a semi-trailer truck to a race car and do so with skill. I choose to drive an automatic because I want to.

    DSG or manual transmissions are welcome choices with TDI.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,896
    While a manual can be fun to drive. It is not for everyone. My wife loved driving her 911 manual until her arthritis made it too painful. So she bought a 928 Porsche automatic. Which she did not like as well. So after a few MB she ended up with a 1990 LS400 and has driven that ever since. If you are in pain each and every shift it is not fun to drive. So the DSG is a welcome addition.
  • jogousajogousa Posts: 402
    Right - but - anyway you toss it, manual transmission is cheaper in a long run...maintenance, repairs, longevitivity, etc. Same goes for diesel engine - proven technology!
  • jogousajogousa Posts: 402
    ooops - longetivity
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,923
    longevity

    MODERATOR
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  • jogousajogousa Posts: 402
    yeah...that's it....spell check on my MacBookPro is acting up....sorry!
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Posts: 4,085
    That was my point... some folks took it the wrong way.

    Over the years, in EVERY case where I opted for the less-expensive manual xmission over an automatic... several years later, folks right here on Edmunds were complaining about how their automatics (of same age as my manual xmission) were needing expensive maintenance or repairs.

    My main point is that ANY automatic xmission, no matter what brand vehicle, will need fluid-changes, adjustments and will tend to fail more often than identical vehicle with manual xmission. ... and if it is not a DSG, it will get several MPG less to boot!!!

    To my mind, it is ludricrus to pay MORE MONEY for a peice of equipment (automatic xmission) that will cost me more to maintiain, more to operate and may break more often. With the US econemy in a death-spiral, our government printing trillions of dollars and spending it faster than the printers can print it. I cannot afford such blatent extravigances as an automatic xmission. (The tax man needs the $$ I would have spent on automatic xmission...he will be visiting you too)

    Being an engineer, I once "ran the numbers" and considerd everything from initial purchase-price, recommended maintainence, lowered MPG... all the way to estamated failure and repair-costs. (Manual -vs- automatic xmission) Lets just say that it was an eye-opening comparison. Amoritized, an automatic-xmission is not a very good inventment. It is obvious to me why ONLY IN AMERICA the automatic-xmission outsells the manual.

    Of course, some folks PHYSICALLY cannot manipulate a manual xmission. My knees are an example... but I grit my teeth and keep pushing that clutch.
  • There's nothing proven about the new common rail diesels, particularly the ones that can pass US emissions. European diesels are running into expensive repairs. Today's diesels have little in common with the tractor engines of the 1980s that ran forever.
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