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VW Jetta TDI

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Comments

  • cosmocosmo Posts: 203
    Diesel has been less expensive than regular gasoline for a month now. I hope this means that the rest of my world will also return to normal.
  • carteachcarteach Posts: 179
    I've tried searching this forum for answers to my specific situation, but can't find it. So...I'm hoping for some advice. I commute round trip 120 miles a day back and forth to New York City. Much of the trip is stop and go traffic but not all of it. Is TDI a smart choice?
  • zambaqzambaq Posts: 14
    It might be a smart choice -- depends on your priorities. What are you looking for in a car, and what other vehicles are you considering?

    I live in the city, so I prefer to commute via public transportation, but I think my '09 Jetta TDI would make a great commuter car for someone who had to drive to work. The driver's seat is both comfortable and supportive, the interior is well-appointed and nicely finished, the car handles well with minimal road noise, and it's got lots of low-end torque (and of course, a turbo) for passing when needed. All of these attributes should make it a relatively pleasant means of dealing with a typically dreary commute. (Though from what I've read, my enthusiasm might be considerably curbed if I were stuck behind the wheel of a new, "Americanized" Jetta, unless I had to carry extra passengers in the back seat....)

    If your first priority is fuel-efficiency, however, and if a good portion of your commute is, as you suggest, truly "stop'n'go", a Prius would likely be a better choice, albeit only if you could adapt to its idiosyncrasies and its decidedly "un-carlike" driving experience. The TDI is an mpg champ on the open road, but it drops back into the pack in city driving. In my area of Queens, where there's a stop sign or traffic light at nearly every intersection, I average only 20 to 25 mpg. The real joy of TDI ownership for me comes during my escapes from NYC, when the car usually gets 40 to 45 mpg, whether on the interstate or on back roads, where it's also quite fun to drive. So even though it wasn't the ideally frugal choice for someone living (and driving) as I do at the moment, I'm glad (so far, at least) that I bought it.

    You just have to weigh all the factors relevant to you, and if a TDI (Jetta, Golf, Sportwagen or, soon, Beetle) is still on your short list, then by all means take one out for a good, long test drive!
  • rremer1rremer1 Posts: 7
    I, too, do a lot of stop and go driving, punctuated by longer stretches of highway. I have adopted a style of driving of for the stop and go driving that maximizes my diesel use during. (I guess it's called hyper-miling.) Anyway, since you drive the route every day, you know when you're coming to a light and stops signs (especially stop signs you know others will be waiting at ahead of you). And you coast there. No point in depressing the peddle when you know you have to stop. The TDI coasts beautifully (some regular cars don't; they just practically stop). This has made a huge difference in my mpg. When I do this conscientiously, I can run 500 or more miles on a tank. If I get lazy and drive more aggressively, I'm filling up at 460 miles. The only hybrid I'd be tempted to buy is a diesel/TDI, which, of course, would do even better! PS: I drive a 2010 Sportwagen.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,941
    first consider replace thermostat and take careful measurements of coolant level when engine cold to see if there is measurable coolant loss and look for drips on floor under car after its run hot (put big white paper under there if you can to see exactly what it is leaking if anything). big coolant loss would probably indicate some kind head gasket leaking if not thermostat gasket . or water pump. has water pump been swapped as required at 100k? they can drip a bit when they are about to fail.)
    another possibility is heater-core. (maybe does the smell lessen a bit if you turn the HVAC system *off*? not sure if it would in that case)

    but also: there is a spherical coolant resevoir (white plastic i think). inspect it carefully, and all tubes, wires leading into/under it - unplug nearby wiring harnesses - and look for signs of corrosion inside the wiring plugs/harness/conduit. the reason is that resevoir or attachments it can crack and leak coolant *inside electrical wire bundle*, causing major damage.
  • carteachcarteach Posts: 179
    I definitely plan to get the Jetta wagon. Thie big question I need help with is....given my commute, will it pay to get the TDI or should I stick with the gas version?

    Thanks.
  • cosmocosmo Posts: 203
    edited June 2012
    As zambag covered in a previous post, there is more to the driving experience than fuel economy. Consumer Reports found the owners of the 2.5 Jetta Sportwagen among the least satisfied and owners of the TDI Sportwagen among the most satisfied. We've owned 3 TDI's since 2004, and have found the fuel mileage to be an "Oh, by the way" advantage. The only significant disadvantage we have found in the TDI's is the slow warm up in extremely cold weather. Thus, VW equips all TDI's with heated seats and electric heaters.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,091
    The premium on the TDI is well worth it. The 2.5L gas engine is really not that great. And somewhat of a gas hog. What ever extra you pay will be returned when you trade or sell the car. I am surprised they even bother bringing in the gas version Sportswagen. They sell 85% as diesel. It is the one to get. Though you may not get a killer deal on one like you would the gas version.
  • fho2008fho2008 Posts: 393
    Anyone have the epa figures for the 2.5 vs the TDI?

    I wanted TDI, but it wasnt available in'08, I'm very happy with my Jetta though, turbo 4.

    However when I took car in for a recall--they found nothing was wrong--I got to drive an '09 TDI (a demo), trip computer read 50 mpg at 70 mph, this car only had 1400 miles on it!

    So I think the mileage of the TDI is worth getting vs the 2.5, and it did not seem slow at all with that torque!

    Drive a TDI and 2.5 and make your decision.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,669
    I don't think you'll get 50 mpg averaged out though. Just about all the longterm tests I read indicate that around 42 mpg would be real-world for most people in mixed city/hwy driving.

    This would be it about equal to the latest and greatest high MPG gassers, like the Mazda 3 or the Chevy Cruse Eco, but it would have an advantage in driving qualities that's for sure, and probably better resale value. On the minus side, it's going to cost more to buy.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,053
    edited June 2012
    The system has never been really serious about 50 mpg. Of the 585 models, say this year, how many really do get 50 mpg? I rest the case/case closed.

    Let's put it this way: the 03 TDI is rated @ 42/49 mpg. I routinely have gotten 50 mpg (range of 48-52) and it continues for app @ the 170,000 + miles. But the real important part: who the H--- cares? The 03 Jetta sold app 9,000 units. FF to 2012 for both torquier and less mpg diesels, and they are selling the best ever (many more units) and at record profits (for VW). Go figure.

    Indeed VW took the hint and increased the available torque and it dwarfs even the Camry Hybrid. It even gets 8.2% better fuel mileage. (39.6 vs 36.6, www.fuelconomy.gov) Safely and (in hind sight) WISELY decreased the mpg (conversationally) to app 40-45 mpg.

    I say like the VW products, give the Chevy ECO Cruze and Mazda 3, 5 to 10 years. Both models and name plates have only recently gotten serious about performance and mpg. Both were dogs (mpg wise) before this latest effort. Mazda 3 has been in serious need of refreshment and for a longer time.

    So for example, the 03 TDI had a diesel premium of MSRP $236. (if I remember correctly) The resale value is 2,532 dollars more for the TDI.
  • fho2008fho2008 Posts: 393
    All I can say is what happened...50mpg at 70mph...thats why I wanted TDI. It was a test drive of a demo.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,669
    anecdotal evidence is usually the worst kind of evidence, for obvious reasons, but you're right...it's "true" for you, that one time.

    but if you were plunking down $25K for something, you'd probably rely on more than what your neighbor says over the fence, right? You'd check it out.

    it's better to be surprised on the + end than the - end I think.

    So I believe the 42 mpg # would be "my" number if I bought a TDI and drove it in mixed city/hwy conditions.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,091
    To answer your original question. I would expect the TDI to get at least 15 MPG better than the 2.5L gas. And a lot better resale value. Very few Sportswagens are sold with gas engine. Last figures I read 85% are diesel. Looks like the supply is finally catching up with demand, so a good deal should be available.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,053
    edited June 2012
    I would say an absolute yes, and an absolute no. YES because I am not responsible for the oem to GET EPA 42/49 mpg ratings, etc and or whatever. I am responsible in driving my anecdotal example for whatever mpg I am getting. Whether YOU (anecdotally) can get EXACTLY what I get, or even EPA ratings or range of ratings can be a very high or low bar and is now totally up to YOU, not me.

    I would say no because then in theory you really can't then rely on an real ratings for then you can say no one to only a few can get any rating at any time. This of course is preposterous. So your premise is really a conversational shot gun approach. In effect your underlying assumption is the EPA rating is some sort of guarantee. It never has been and never will be. But then defacto you and most folks know that.
  • cosmocosmo Posts: 203
    This year with our 2011 Sportswagen TDI we've been getting 30-32 mpg in city driving (my wife commuting to work and shopping), 35-36 mpg in mixed driving (30% highway miles is typical when I use it for work), and 42-45 mpg on 200 mile+ trips with highway speed limits varying from 55 to 70 mph and a little city driving included. (If I drive 45 mph on a flat road the computer will read well over 50 mpg.)

    With our '06 Jetta TDI, we've been getting 32-33 mpg, 38-40 mpg, and 44-46 mpg in the above described conditions. (It's fuel mileage has gradually improved every year so far.)

    Both are equipped with DSG. Hills, winds, loads, traffic, and road conditions all have an effect on fuel mileage in the real world.

    Given these two cars' performance, safety, ride, comfort, price, standard equipment, and reslae value, I can live with the fuel mileage of each. Claims of 50 mpg+ do not impress me, because that is not how, where, or why I drive.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,053
    Indeed the Taylor's proved the RANGE of the TDI, can be much greater as they knocked down 84 mpg + on a 2012 Passat TDI. Now I would hate to drive like they do to get it, but I think the point is that almost anyone can come close if they want.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,669
    I'm still monitoring friends' TDIs, and none of them have ever recorded 50 mpg. The 2011 Sportwagon is right on the estimate, and is getting 42 mpg overall in mixed suburban/highway driving. Highest they ever recorded was 47 for a long highway stretch at 65 mph on cruise control. The older Golf TDI that reports to me now and then seems about the same, or a bit less than the 2011 wagon.

    My brother's Jetta TDI is right around 38-40, but he's up at altitude. He loves his car. :)

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,053
    edited June 2012
    My range for the mark 5, ( MY 2009) is between 39 and 47 mpg. This was the start of the gen/model (higher torque 236 # ft, lower fuel mileage, epa 29/40) than the mark 4 (155# ft/epa 42/49 mpg), spoken about in MSG #4676.

    While it is still capable of 50+ mpg, you have to drop both the revs and speeds to consistently get it. But then again those are some of the prices for: 300# increased, the DSG vs 6 speed M/T (far less RANGE), changing emissions standards and compliance (differing penalites), and 52% more # ft of torque.

    The additional thing is that gassers designers have long been put on noticed that the need to optimize their systems (aka drive train) for the 65 mph speed limit (range of course is anywhere from 45 mph to 85 mph). Obviously there is a double wink wink going on here. ;) ;) One example of the "range" is some pats of the Texas interstate @ 80 mph and soon to be legislated 85 mph. GBT !! The most obvious one most folks care about is mpg. In that sense the small percentage and volume of diesels have long been there. In effect I have taken that for granted from a practical point of view for easily 218,000 diesel miles. Indeed three VW examples are optimized for 81 mph @ 2,200 rpm 6 gear, albeit DSG/ 5/6 speed M/T. Below that (optimization) mph you can really post good numbers as fho2008 did with the 50 mpg @ 70 mph.

    I have one gasser that uses a 6 speed M/T to optimize. It has been criticized and draws praise in the same analysis for using a so called "dual gear" over drive type gearing. I am sure there are other examples, but I am not real familiar with the others.

    The NHSTA's own accident and fatalities figures confirm that even with higher speed limits, more cars, drivers, mileage, trips, the figures posted are the LOWEST and safest ever since they started recording these things.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,447
    If you compare apples to apples, the EPA revised their standards so while older cars may be rated higher by the old standard, they may not be by the new one (Web site converts all old numbers to the new ones).

    With an automatic the 2006 Jettas numbers went from 35/42 to 30/38. Some of the older models are even more efficient, but most still can't beat the best new diesels - Passat 30/43. (Excepton is the 2003 Jetta with a stick that got 35/44 converted, or 42/49 by the old standards)
  • opsmasteropsmaster Posts: 1
    Hi - I am currently doing some research into the 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI. Heard good things about the car, but no prior experience with diesel. I have come across a number of fuel pump failure and power loss stories related to the TDI. This makes me concerned. Does anyone know if the issue has been cleared up for 2012? Is it related to American diesel fuel or a product defect from VW? Thank you.
  • jcmoore5jcmoore5 Posts: 1
    I have a 2012 Jetta TDI. Alot of my coworkers have older ones. We all get in the high 40s and mid 50s on the highway. My coworkers have over 150k on theirs (03, 05, 09, and 11). We are all getting around 40-46 around town (DC + Southern MD). I never believed it until I did it my self. My buddy and I are tryin to see who can get the best mpg. He has a Golf TDI. He is winning right now with 70k miles on the car. He is pulling 55.3 mpg on the Beltway. My best is 52.3 mpg on the highway with 1900 miles on the car.

    Oh and I did not pay $25K for my 2012 Jetta TDI DSG, TDI Monster Mats, CarGo sytem, Lip Spoiler, and Exhaust Tips.
  • fho2008fho2008 Posts: 393
    Thank you, it was a test drive, as I said wish TDI was available when I bought, it wasnt.

    Instant econ showed 50 mpg, pretty much flat in my part of IL, and cruise was on.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,669
    Oh we were talking about the Sportwagon at $25K ++, not the sedan.

    Also we were talking about average MPG over a year's time, mixed city/hwy.

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  • fho2008fho2008 Posts: 393
    Very similiar vehicles, just offering my 2 cents.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,053
    edited June 2012
    In almost any analysis, I start with yearly mileage expected.

    UPSHOT: TDI getting 26% better fuel mileage. Rug costing $358 more per year. Over 10 years one should expect to use 970 gals MORE fuel

    So with fuel @ $3.79 D2, Rug @ $3.77 2012 Passat TDI 40.2 mpg: gasser @ 31.9 mpg (US High Average driver @ 15,000 miles = 373 gals *3.79= $1,414, 470 gals * 3.77= $1,772 , 97 gals more per year RUG. (www.fueleconomy.gov)

    So that things are more AVERAGED than not, I also use 100,000 miles. 100,000 miles is really what ANY car is capable of doing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,669
    Yep, I know. The Sportwagon is just a lot pricier for some reason. More like $26,5K with the equipment you mentioned, plus T&L of course. Probably one reason they don't sell more of them.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,053
    edited June 2012
    I scratch my head a bit on why VW wants to be THE #1 world wide auto oem. It is more profitable than almost any other automaker and by a LOT. @ number two, VW can really over take whoever is #1 almost at will. It is almost like they are ignoring history when both #1's had any number of serious issues. It is almost like shortly after GM hit #1 it declared chap 11. Toyota when it was #1 admitted publicly that it had lost its way and for the record lost literally billions of dollars.

    To think it is one of the most profitable auto companies and it only has 2.5 to 2.8% of the US markets. It will certainly be interesting to see what will happen to both diesels and the auto markets.
  • cosmocosmo Posts: 203
    Compare side by side and inside and out the current Americanized Jetta TDI sedan with the current Jetta Sportwagen TDI (aka Golf Estate/Golf Variant). The Sportwagen has gas struts for the hood and rear hatch, not a prop and springs. The Sportwagen has an independent rear suspension. The Sportwagen has a padded dash and padded interior door trim. The Sportwagen has 4 more more speakers. The Sportwagen has a standard driver power seat. And do not overlook that the Sportwagen has more front and rear headroom and more cargo capacity. So yes, the Sportwagen is more expensive because it has not been stripped for the American market.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,091
    You have hit the reason for the price difference. The Jetta Sedan is a cheaper Mexican knockoff of the Golf and Sportswagen. In the UK a Golf Estate with a few goodies and DGS sells for the equivalent of $40k US plus. That could explain the shortages of the model here. Why sell to Cheap A** Americans when the rest of the World knows a great car when they see it. We are a niche market to VW. They know where the growth is in China. We are decaying and smart money does not want to invest much here.
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