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VW Jetta TDI

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Comments

  • bpeeblesbpeebles Posts: 4,085
    are the cars comfortable on 1.5- 2 hrs drive time?

    OF COURSE THEY ARE!! These are German road-cars. I have taken my Jetta TDI on trips of 16 hours.... regularly.

    The seats in VW are designed for comfort. My seats move up/down, forward/back, lean and have lumbar adjustments. I have a bad back and every few hours, I like to change the lumbar setting a bit.

    The ONLY time it got uncomfortable was a trip from Vermont-->Colorado-->Vermont in 5 days. The engine did not cool off...we just rotated thru 3 drivers.

    PLUS-- I have averaged 50MPG over the 90,000 miles I have owned it.

    Do not forget that TDI engines continue to get better MPG for the first 20,000 miles or so.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    I've not driven a vehicle that was a better road warrior than my prior Jetta TDI. Can't speak much of the newest ones as I don't have seat time in them, but historically I've always found VW/Audi products to be extremely comfy. And I've got considerable seat time in a lot of different vehicles including the Accords (older gen), as well as the newest Camrys, and Impalas. MPG will go to the TDI by a long shot for any of the vehicles you're considering.

    I had a few performance mods on my TDI, and yes you can increase the performance without killing the economy. However, if you constantly hammer on the go-pedal it will lower your mpg. You won't get 50hp on a TDI with a chip....the full-size truck diesels are quite different than a TDI. Plus it will be awhile before any performance mods are available (guessing....emissions controls might be an issue).
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,941
    dvsalot, I drive about 80% interstate too, 79 mph. I get 45 mpg consistently with the 06 TDI, got 48 mpg consistently with the 03. My 4 TDIs have all been reliable, yes. 120 miles to the nearest dealer would probably make me think twice, depending which dealerships/brands were nearby! Local VW dealership has been excellent, and is 15 miles away.
    also, i've driven passat TDI and jetta TDI on bostonSanJose commutes ,
    and from bostonflorida more times than I can count. They are fine for long roadtrips.
  • obieobie Posts: 39
    My dealer here in NC said the Sportwagen TDIs should be shipped about the same time as the Sedans, late August or early September. Maybe you'll get lucky.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Posts: 735
    That seems to be the time frame I have heard the most.

    Thanks
  • micosilvermicosilver Posts: 212
    2008 Jetta TDI Loyal Edition sedans are already in port, and they should arrive before August 4th. Wagons will not arrive probably until September

    Mico
  • jkinzeljkinzel Posts: 735
    Thanks Mico.
    If I didn’t have to pay both CA and WA sales tax, I’d come down and buy from you. Seems both states want a pint of my blood from my understanding.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,160
    No that is not correct. Once they know where the domicile of the car is they are bound to charge the taxation rate of domicile.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,103
    If you take delivery in California, you have to pay CA sales tax... no matter where you live..

    If he had the car shipped.. or driven across the state line by a dealership employee (IOW, delivered out of state), then he could avoid the CA sales tax.. but, of course, he would still pay tax in WA, where he lives..

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • obieobie Posts: 39
    Well sportsfans, I guess I'm in it for real now. Took a second test drive and plunked down my 500 bucks to get on the waiting list at my local dealership. Technically I also placed an order (for a black sedan with DSG), but I get to consider any car that comes to the dealership if all above me on the list have passed on it. So, will that mean 4 weeks or 4 months? Who knows. But at least I'm in the queue. Now I can start obsessing over whether I picked the right color or not. :confuse:
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    I hate to disappoint anybody who’s considering to buy the new 2009 jetta at above the MSRP price charged by the dealers. First anybody who’s looking to buy this new diesel car need to do some research and calculate the purchase cost versus the operating cost. As we all know the cost of diesel is close to $1 more than the Gas depending on where you live, the maintenance cost for diesel car is more expensive than the Gas one, the initial added cost for purchasing diesel is around $3600. I am sure a lot of people who’s looking to buy diesel they were quoted $23600 for the new Jetta diesel SE, automatic. We all know the Gas version of the same car is around $20000, and I can get it for less than that at some dealers. Now you need to do simple calculation between gas and diesel version of the same car; if I fill the tank of both cars with the same dollar amount, how many miles will I travel? Using the EPA numbers for both cars 21/29 MPG for gas version and 29/40 MPG for the diesel version, lets use the highway numbers for both cars. Assuming the gas price is $4.00 and the diesel is $5; for $50 fill up in each car, this means that money will buy us 12.5 gallons of gas, and 10 gallons of diesel. With the diesel we will travel 400 miles, versus 362.5 miles with gasoline car. As you can see the difference is 37.5 miles. If you are spending $100 a month for fuel, this translates to 900 miles difference every year between the two vehicles, a $125 saving every year. Which bring me to the conclusion that if your initial added cost was $2000 you will need to keep driving that car for 16 years before you get all your money back. One more thing is the price of diesel is still going up faster than the gasoline; and the reason is simple there is more demand for diesel in the USA right now than there is for gasoline. To backup this claim read this two report http://seekingalpha.com/article/68468-why-is-diesel-more-expensive-than-regular-- gas , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_usage_and_pricing .
    I think the wise purchase at this time for long term is a midsize sedan that can get you 36 MPG like the CIVIC, or the VERSA, or the COROLLA,,, I hope this information help people looking for a new car make a good decision on there investment in transportation.
  • icaticat Posts: 12
    I don't know about the '09 costs but I can tell you that we drove to Myrtle Beach from Cleveland, Ohio in our '06 Jetta TDI and averaged 560mi per tank carrying four adults and about 150 lbs of other stuff. I drove between 75-80MPH other than for about 30 minutes of back up where 501 leads to the coast.

    Maintenance costs are going to have to over twice as high as a gas powered vehicle (not close to the case) in order to take me out of the Jetta. On the other hand, I would NEVER pay a premium for a vehicle...period!
  • morey000morey000 Posts: 357
    your math is close enough (although diesel is about 90 cents more than RUG where I'm at) but even though the vehicles are about the same size, I've never considered a Corolla, Civic of Versa as a competitive vehicle with the Jetta. The Jetta is a much heavier vehicle. and, Maybe it's just the style, the way it drives, and interior quality.

    So- money isn't everything.

    For us, the Jetta TDI is in competition with the Prius- which is about the same price.
    The Jetta Sportwagon- not sure what the competition for that is?

    Money isn't the only factor here. The whole driving experience between a Jetta and a Corolla is different. But thanks for the reality check.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,160
    ..."CIVIC, or the VERSA, or the COROLLA,,, "

    Wish OEMS that make cars like these offered diesel models. An above diesel model and more would literally revolutionize that segment. Truly it will revolutionize almost any segment. Perhaps that is what oems that do NOT want/plan to come out with a diesel model are afraid off.

    So for example on a 03 Jetta (as there is much more data and 5/6 years of it) the fuel mileage is app 42% better than the gasser models. (I get 50 mpg vs 29) . If the Honda Civic (I have, so you can see I compare them side by side EVERY DAY) would get 42% better, trust me I would be tickled pink @ 67 mpg !!!! (39 mpg gasser) Honda can't match VW's ratios? No problem, I'd still be tickled (less) pink @ 55 mpg vs 39 mpg. (29%)

    At the time, the diesel was a 246. option over a 1.8T. In hindsight (5/6 years) the diesel sells for 6,000 MORE than the like used 1.8T !!! So a 246 dollar "premium" nets (5/6 years later) 6,000 more!? I wish I could do that consistently in the stock market!!!! (406% per year)
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    It's good you're doing the math and questioning all aspects. Most folks don't look at all sides of the equation. However, I take exception with your math when you start say "someone that spends $100/month of fuel". The correct way to really look at it is "someone that drives X miles per month". Fuel cost is variable but most folks have to drive a certain number of miles. So if we assume $100 in todays gas at 29mpg....that person would be driving ~725 miles per month or only 8,700 miles per year. 12,000-15,000 is far more the average, and generally on the low end for someone shopping a commuter or high mileage vehicle. But assuming only 15k miles per year the savings is about $193/year. Still not a big number, but another factor you're not considering is that generally speaking the premium you pay up-front tends to always stay with the diesel vehicle. So really you're losing out on present value of cash or some financing charges on the difference. Historically, the resale of TDI's have actually brought a premium of more than the up-front cost compared to the gas models. Higher maintenance on a diesel isn't exactly a fact, but could be depending on the situation. But by that token, I'm sure there are folks that have 100% variances in their maintenance costs between identical vehicles.

    There's also always more than just numbers to figure in here. While comparing the TDI to the gas Jetta is the most accurate in terms of return-on-investment, I don't believe those two are actually targeting the same market. I think what the Jetta TDI has to offer is a much more accomodating and upscale vehicle that returns the operating costs of an economy car. As most folks on this forum know, when my prior TDI was totalled I grabbed a good deal on an '07 Civic. I sold it within a few months as it just wasn't the right vehicle for me on several levels. To me, if the economies made any sense I would commute in a 3-series bimmer, maybe an Acura TL, Audi A4....something along those lines. But they're not generally easy on fuel or the pocketbook in a lot of ways.

    I would agree that overall cost, a Civic/Versa/Corolla likely could be cheaper to own/operate, you just don't get a lot of vehicle. But at the same time, if you truly want the cheapest option a Chevy Cobalt or Ford Fusion would likely be even more economical. In my corporate days, the vehicle fleet for our company (over 2,000 units) was under my domain and Toyota/Honda couldn't touch our Chevy/Ford fleet in terms of long-term cost. The Camry required nearly double the service miles to break even and repairs are hard to predict at 200k+ miles.
  • ed_granted_grant Posts: 10
    I am a proud owner of a 06 Jetta TDI with package 2 and DSG - the works. I could not be more happy with the purchase. I have have 65,000 miles. I considered purchasing the 09 but cannot justify the purchase at this time, because of the cost and the potential of converting to the use of biodiesel.

    I live in Apollo Beach, FL and am considering purchasing one of the homebrew kits. I know that the cheapest way is the Appleseed setup. I have seen many of these on line and am not pleased with the looks and potential safety of the setup. Therefore, I am looking at one of the more expensive setups.

    My problem is the cost amortiztion. Just like the premium being charged for the gas versus diesel in the 09 Jetta, I am having difficulty justifying the cost. I would like to find some TDI owners in the Tampa-St. Pete area that would like to cost share the venture. I am estimating the cost per gallon of good bio would be 1.70-2.00 per gallon. The cheapest setup looks like a total expenditure of 3,500-4,000 for a unit that can produce 40 gallons per batch. That could supply enough biodiesel for 6 people. That brings the average cost per person to 600-700.

    Question: are there any TDI users in the Tampa area interested?
  • ed_granted_grant Posts: 10
    I just finished a trip from FL to Ohio to Iowa and back to FL. The comfort of the car was outstanding. NO SORE SPOTS ANYWHERE. The car was an 06 TDI. I have owned so many cars I cannot remember the total (over 30 Mustangs alone). I have never owned a better car period. What a combination - drive 70-80 mph and get 45 mpg - incredible comfort in a German car - really inexpensve at mid 20K versus 40k+ - nearly unlimited miles if properly maintained.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    I agree with you analogy, but I am looking at the data in the past 5 years. The difference in price between diesel and gasoline is widening every year. It is true that the value of Jetta diesel went to the roof, and we all know the reason is the conversion kit that people they buy for about $3000 to make their car run on biodiesel or vegetable oil. But even now in some part of California some of the fast food industry start charging people for that oil, then they need converted to a usable fuel. Add to that the fact that Honda is bringing the 2.2L i-cdi engine in the 2009 Accord with competitive prices, and may be Chrysler, and GM will follow the same path, since both they sell a lot of Diesel cars in Europe, this alone will drop the price of the used Jetta to certain level; and I am sure you know the game in the market is based on demand and supply. The best time to sell a used Jetta diesel is now; I have a friend that he sold his 2006 Jetta for $23800, and now he ordered the 2009 for the same price. But like everybody knows the market change, and now all the auto manufacturing Honda, VW, Mercedes, even BMW are bringing their diesel cars because they solved one of the hurdle they have to meet the EPA emission requirement. But people they are going to go for the high mileage advertised for those vehicles at first then they will realize that they are not saving that much compared to gasoline engines, especial if the gap between the two fuels keep widening. Very interesting discussion.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,160
    I clearly have no evidence of this and am merely swagging under the 1st amendment rights, but perhaps that (using commercially available ULSD 2 and not that "boot legged" bio diesel "trash") was part of the "dope" deal for VW to put its diesels on the US market.

    My take is the US market gives lip service to alternative fuels (aka bio diesel) but is LOATHED to put any products on the market that actually are specified to run ALTERNATIVE fuels (bio diesel. and included the various oil variants).

    I also realize the discussion borders on the federal/state felony, as all of us know we are required to file the fed/state IRS/FTXB forms when volunteering to pay on road fuel taxes. (or NOT, hence Fed/State felony ;) )
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    you will need to keep driving that car for 16 years before you get all your money back.

    I just picked this as an example of the error in your post. I bought a 2005 Passat TDI in April 2005 when diesel was more than gas up in Portland Oregon. I sold it in San Diego in May of 2006 for $3000 more than I paid for it new. That point being the diesel will hold its value better than the gasser.

    In San Diego today diesel is less than 45 cents difference. As many owners will attest the new Jetta TDIs are capable of a lot better mileage than the EPA estimates. I calculated that with the current price of gas in CA being $4.50 per gallon diesel would have to cost at least $7 per gallon to be less cost effective.

    That leads up to the driving experience. Until you have taken both the gas version and the diesel version of the VW out on the highway you will be clueless as to the superiority of the diesel engine. If your thing is racing from stop light to stop light and don't do much highway driving. I recommend one of the little rice rockets for under $20k. They are cheap to modify and gas mileage is not a concern.

    Lastly and my biggest reason for wanting another diesel is alternative fuel. Currently biodiesel is the ONLY practical alternative to fossil fuel. With the research in algae to biodiesel and Natural gas to diesel it would be good to have at least one diesel in your stable.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    I agree, the best time to sell a used TDI is now. Which is why I'm going to wait it out. If you follow my prior posts, I'm basically on the "wait and see" bandwagon. I don't see any reason to pay a premium for a new or used one right now. I'm not an early adopoter....I don't need the latest/greatest and for now the most economical thing for me is to just keep pumping fuel into my truck. I'm only doing about 20k miles per year and even with $4/gas it's hard to justify a second vehicle, although historically I've considered it a luxury. Until I find the right vehicle, it won't make financial sense.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,160
    Indeed the boundaries have always been the yearly average drivers rate of 12,000 to 15,000 miles. Most discussions will probably include these metrics.

    Diesels (due to the premiums) usually start to make sense from 20,000 to 25,000 miles per year, or if you have a much longer term outlook, average age of a diesel vehicle and/or both.

    Of topic one reason why we bought an automatic Civic with a commute requirement of 14,300 miles. Indeed the premium for automatic door locks and cruise control were $1,200. So how many use these options with one person in full commute traffic? The 1,200 would be better spent on a diesel option. :shades:
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    I agree with what you said, but you have to understand that the market change, what make sense today won’t make sense tomorrow; one good example is the Trucks and SUVs; just three years ago they were the biggest money making for the big threes, Chrysler, GM, Ford, look at them today nobody want them, and these three companies are cutting cost right and left trying to survive this sudden change in market. And remember they had a lot of market analysis tools and experienced gurus in this field to predict these things and still they did not see it coming that fast. The point I am trying to make is things change pretty fast now in the automotive market, especially every manufacturer is trying to survive this economic crisis. Biodiesel is cheap today but everybody is jumping on the bandwagon and eventually its price will go up; look at the price of vegetable oil how high it went. One more thing, I agree with the fact that diesel is efficient fuel, and there is more BTU in one gallon of diesel than there is in 1 gallon of gasoline; but also it require more oil to make one gallon of Diesel than making a gallon of Gas, and with the low sulfur diesel requirement by the EPA, the cost is going up. Don’t get me wrong, it is cheaper to make diesel than making gasoline, but the taxes, environmentalist, and oil companies don’t want people to drive efficient cars; because they are protecting their revenues. And by the way, I drove diesel all my life in Europe until I came to the USA. I know all the flaw the problems and the maintenance cost for the diesel. I like it has more torque it is good for city driving, you can let your engine idle for 3 hours on ¼ gallon. But my point is the premium you pay for the diesel car plus the gap between price of gas and diesel, are not playing in favor of diesel car, especially if other manufacturer are introducing their own diesel cars;; Unless the price difference between diesel engine and gasoline is only couple hundred dollars. The Jetta is a good car my wife drive one, they are reliable, except for some electrical problems because they are assembled in Mexico.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    I think the key is to buy a diesel vehicle when the market is soft. I think there will be a surge when they first get to the dealers. I agree that paying $3000 or more difference would not be wise. I am not personally interested in the Jetta. Though the Sportwagon seems like it might be a possibility. I will not get caught in a bidding war or pay some dealer a premium to be the first on the block for any vehicle. VW dealers would be advised to take this chance to build new relationships in the US market. VW has a bad reputation for less than reliable cars. If they act like Honda dealers, it will be hard for many buyers to accept. Our local VW dealer was great. They serviced my Passat TDI very well even though it was bought out of state. Used the right oil and charged a lot less than Toyota for service.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Over 300,000 plus population and only ONE VW dealer in the area in which I reside.
    Lack of competition from other VW dealers allows the one dealer to offer terrible sales and service and still prosper......
    No TDI for me unless I happen to relocate.

    VW needs more dealers.
  • bobgwtwbobgwtw Posts: 187
    Letslook at another realistic situation - mine. I drive 55,000 miles a year. 55.000divided by 29 + 1897 gl X the $3.80 I normally pay =$7200. a year.
    55.000divided by 40 = 1375 gl X the $4.60 price in my area =$6325 a year. Asavings of $875./yr x the 3 years I normally keep a car =$2625. savings over the gasser.

    For what it's worth I love the way VW's drive & would love to have a diesel version of the new Passat CC; but their absolutely rediculous maintenance costs drive me to the Japanese cars. Acura will have a turbo 2.2 diesel TSX next March rated @ 53 highway MPG; and it won't have $7-800 timing belts & $1200 hundred K service costs.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Posts: 4,085
    I see your post already received a lot of attention but I have to add my own comments too.

    I have a spreadsheet for my TDI which reflects EVERY DROP of fuel put thru it since new.(90,000+ miles now) I can attest that it is cheaper than gasoline in every way. Essentually, gasoline would have to be 1/3 more expensive than gasoline JUST TO BREAK EVEN!

    I agree with you that one needs to consider many aspects of diesel ownership... but your calculations are missing some facts.

    1) The VW TDIs usually get significantly MORE MPG than the EPA estamates. (If it says 40.... expect 47+)
    2) Resale for a TDI often offsets any additional initial cost for the TDI engine.
    3) You are JUST PLAIN WRONG when you say maintenace on a TDI is more expensive than a gasser.

    On item#1;
    The TDI engine MPG improves for at least the 1st 25,000 miles.... mine started to level off at over 60,000 miles.

    On item#3;
    *) OCI (OilChangeInterval) can be 10,000 miles or more. (ending up about the same as gasser at 5,000 miles with cheaper oil)
    *) There are no sparkplugs/wires and related components to ever replace. (a BONUS over gasoline engine)

    Additionaly... NONE of the (CIVIC, or the VERSA, nor the COROLLA) carry the 12-year/unlimited milage warantee that the VWs do. For me living in Vermont, this is extremely important to me becasue cars do not WEAR out... they RUST out.

    BTW: I would like to hear your reasoning behind your claim that TDIs are more expensive to maintiain. Would you please tell us what led you to that conclusion?
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    I respect your point of view; but I do not think you are familiar with the diesel engines. Concerning the maintenance:
    1- you need to change the diesel fuel filter every 20,000 miles or before that, and the reason is simple diesel is not as refined as gasoline.
    2- you need to change the oil every 5000 miles.
    3- you need to clean the common rail injectors after 25,000 miles to keep the MPG up.
    4- This one is the worst; because it cost a lot of money, the timing belt need to be replaced after 60,000 miles to play it safe. The reason you have to do this early is because the belt is made of rubber, the one in gasoline engine is made of steel chain, that is why it does not need to change until after 120,000 miles at least for Honda accord.
    In response to your claim that you can manage 47 MPG from Jetta diesel; I will have to agree, because that's depend on your driving. I get 38 MPG from my 2008 accord, and I get 36 MPG from regular 2001 Jetta, using different techniques of driving. But for comparison purpose I choose to use the numbers from the EPA.
    Another thing, I am still saying that the diesel is cheaper to drive than the gasoline at today's prices, but what I am trying to point out to everybody is the initial premium that you pay to the dealer to get that car, and you do not know if you're going to save that much to justify the cost. But again, it's matter of preference not economic, you like the car, and you wanted it so bad, then you are going to pay the extra money, no justification whatsoever.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Quick response to your previous:

    #1. Fuel Filter: It's about $15 on a TDI and takes less than five minutes once you know what you're doing.

    #2. Oil change is 10k miles on synthetic oil. This is per book. About the same cost as 5k interval on gasser. I've went 12k miles between oil changes on my previous TDI and had the oil tested. Could have gone at least 15k, so 10k is very conservative.

    #3. I've got 180k miles on my common rail Cummins.....never even looked at an injector. Quality fuel goes a long way here though....

    #4. 100k miles is quite conservative for timing belts these days. Honda and Toyota still uses belts on several of their vehicles (my Tundra and Odyssey included) with similar service intervals. An actual timing chain likely will not need replaced at all. Considering the number of cars still out there with timing belts, I'm not sure that's a fair ding on the TDI.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,941
    malmouza your points 2, 3, and 4 are false. 1 out of 4 ain't bad?
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