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VW Jetta TDI

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884
    during the summer the difference is close to $1

    Over the last year it has not been over 50 cent difference between gas and diesel in California. It would have to be a lot more than that. You mentioned the price of a VW TDI on eBay. That can be a good indicator of what cars will bring that are in big demand. If you can get a deal below MSRP on a new VW TDI you will not lose money when you go to sell it. Something you have not addressed. Unleaded gasoline is far from consistent in the USA. It can have all kinds of designer additives including the dreaded ETHANOL. Some of those such as ethanol take away mileage. Diesel is much better controlled. It is unlikely you will get a big variation in mileage. The ONLY way to get away from the crappy gas sold in California is to own a diesel vehicle. When gas is $4 per gallon and diesel is $8 per gallon it will no longer be a big advantage. Until then your calculations are not realistic. Or based on sound principles. I am not sure what turned you off on diesel. The two diesels I have owned in the last 3 years were great.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    I inadvertantly left off the PUG calculation @ $4.69/ 29 mpg= $.16.2 per mile driven

    So if I ran the 1.8t that would be .162-.102= 59% more. The first calculation using Rug is actually for the VW 2.0.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884
    When given a choice car buyers will likely pick the VW TDI over any Japanese car.

    image

    Do you see any Japanese car in the top ten where a choice is offered? Me neither. The US market is big. Just not indicative of what car buyers want. We only get the dregs dribbled to US.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884
    Now that VW has jumped through all the hoops that CARB has put in their path, it will be interesting to see if VW can meet the demand for their diesel cars. And with their dealers coming out of hard times will they blow with gouging the public. My dealer Drew VW in San Diego told me they were selling the TDis at MSRP. They expect both the Jetta and Sportwagon the end of August. They are taking special orders and expect delivery in 90 days. So you can get a VW Jetta TDI just the way you want it. Try that with Toyota or Honda.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    Sorry to prove you’re wrong again, the financial data on that link just prove what I said before. In 2006 VW lost 160 billion euros, today they are achieving 3.43 billions euro. Do you see what I see? How long will it take for VW to make up for the lost money? Have you been investing money on the market or you just read the headlines? Another thing that you do not know about how VW achieved the profit of 3.43 billions euro? By cutting cost, cutting work force, and cutting all overheads including assets, also they were helped in this quarter by couple newly redesigned cars like the Passat, Audi A4…Now you know where the 3.43 billions euros is coming from!! I guess I rest my case here, you’re talking to someday that is in the market everyday buying and selling stocks, we do not invest our money based on the headlines; we do market analysis of all the details about specific stock. No offense, but try next time to do your homework before bidding on stock or you’ll lose big time.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    With all respect in your calculation is missing a major component, that couple people brought to the picture in this kind of comparison; (How many mile the car will be driven??) the calculation has to be based on the (12000 miles) that average people cumulate on there cars yearly. And you did not mention the premium you’ll pay to get the car, and I will not include the resale value because that is based on speculation, nobody knows what the value of your car will be 2 years from now, specially at this time, when every manufacturer is trying to come up with the best hybrid on the market so they can save themselves from bankruptcy.
    I am going to be generous this time and make only $0.80 difference between the gas and diesel. And I will compare the Jetta diesel to the best car in US Honda Accord. Also I will assume both car do more highway driving.
    1- For the Accord the EPA is 22 city / 32 hway
    2- For the Jetta Diesel the EPA is 29 cty / 40 hway. (I will use the 44 MPG hway)
    3- Yearly cost for Accord based on (12,000 miles and $4/gal for gas) is ($1500)
    4- Yearly cost for Jetta Diesel based on (12,000 miles and $4.80/gal for Diesel) is ($1309)
    5- The yearly difference between the Gas and Diesel is ($191)
    If you keep the Jetta diesel for 10 years you’ll accomplish a saving of ($1910) over what Honda Accord owner will accomplish. Even if we base this calculation on (24000) miles the difference is only ($382) per year, if you paid premium of just $3000 over MSRP it will take 7.8 years before you start making any saving. There you have it, and I rest my case no more arguing about this issue.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    Rest your case? The facts either confuse you, nor support your assertions and/or both!! Even the lowest priced Accord costs the same as the VW TDI! When you factor in the lower fue mpg of the Accord, you lose again! Indeed you start to win at the first tank full with the TDI !!!!!!

    I would have gotten the Accord over the Civic, if the numbers were as you say. They were not even close, not then or now. You STILL refuse to do the numbers as you advocate others doing. Your SWAGS do not even come close to your numbers, which is probably why you refuse to do them.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,231
    I am going to be generous this time and make only $0.80 difference

    Generous? That's currently the largest spread between RUG and ULSD on a location-to-location basis (research nationwide fuel prices...flyingj.com is a good source for real-time pricing). The average is closer to $.50 difference. Does this make a big difference? Not really but it makes me question the logic of your comparision.

    if you paid premium of just $3000 over MSRP

    I think this qualifies as a dumb move regardless. A few knuckleheads willing to pay a premium over MSRP does not a trend make. If you're going to assume everone will have to pay such a premium, then I will assume the ridiculously (and far more historically correct) resale value on the TDI should be assumed. Both are stastically incorrect. There are suckers born every minute. Ask the dolts that paid MSRP for a new Tundra a year or so ago......

    But either way, these current TDI's bring a lot more to the table than the previous two generations. I paid around $15,000 for mine back in '00, averaged 47mpg on cheaper diesel, put 180k basically trouble-free miles, and got $9,000 for it last year. Which is why I'm currently pumping gas into my truck. Even at 44mpg.....I can't justify the cost of ANY decent 2nd vehicle by cost alone. It will be a luxury to have an extra vehicle for commuting so it better be a good one.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    Please do not mislead people, Taking you’re example of FlyingJ which is the cheapest gas station in the country, and not everybody lives next to this gas station, here’s the link of today’s price of Diesel and Gas the difference is more than $1. Gas ($3.69) vs diesel ($4.71) http://www.pennsylvaniagasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=D there you have it.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    Too funny, It is you that is doing the misleading, even as you say someone else is !

    I wish I could only pay what you pay for either.

    Today corner store prices are $4.35/ 24 mpg= .181 cents vs 4.95 /44 mpg= .1125 cent or .60 cents spread. Rug costs .0685 cents more to operate or 61% more per mile driven.

    By your responses, I am not sure what that says to you.

    But I sure know what that says to me.

    Lets use your numbers; 3.60/24= .15 cents 4.71/44=.107 cents.

    RUG is 40% more (.15-.107=.043/.107=)
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884
    prove what I said before. In 2006 VW lost 160 billion euros

    You have not proven anything. Where is your link that claims VW lost 160 Billion Euros? That much would bankrupt any car maker. That is almost twice what Toyota is worth.
  • altair4altair4 Posts: 1,469
    Interesting reading the back & forth on the price spread on the different fuel types.

    AAA has their website that's updated daily. Nationally, they put the average price per gallon for 07-23-2008 as follows:

    RUG - $4.042
    PUG - $4.428
    Diesel - $4.802

    In my local market (AAA says for Pittsburgh, PA = RUG - $4.002, PUG - $4.388, Diesel - $4.92), I find their RUG price to be pretty accurate, perhaps five cents on the high side of what I see at the brand-name local stations. PUG is not accurate - I regularly purchase PUG at 20 cents below AAA's Pittsburgh average. Can't speak to Diesel prices as I don't regularly see them at the pump.

    Maybe this will help pin down prices on diesel: http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/index.asp
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,428
    There is only one definative source for fuel prices and it is here. The difference is $.76 nationwide.

    http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/

    Here are the state by state numbers.

    http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/sbsavg.asp
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,231
    I'm sure I can find two stations that are only $.30 difference between gas and diesel. So you live somewhere that diesel is astronomically higher, sorry about your luck. And most folks don't (and shouldn't) buy their fuel from the corner store. Somewhere that turns over a lot of fuel will have better fuel and better pricing. The good news is you can go 600+ miles between fillups with the diesel so stopping isn't as much of a hassle.

    Don't forget that the taxes vary a lot between states on gas and diesel as well. In the case of PA, they're getting an extra $.12/gallon in tax on diesel. PA, AZ, and IN are all in the 90th percentile for diesel taxes.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884
    The good news is you can go 600+ miles between fillups with the diesel so stopping isn't as much of a hassle.

    That is high on my list of reasons for liking diesel. The new Jetta should give you close to 700 miles out on the highway. I liked only filling once a day with my two diesel vehicles. It also gives you a chance to pick the lowest price when traveling.

    Gas prices are dropping like a rock in San Diego. We are 50 cents under the peak price 5 weeks ago. Diesel is down about 30 cents. Diesel takes longer to react both up and down here.

    Last I checked CA has the highest tax on diesel of all 50 states. Total fuel tax is 72 cents per gallon.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,476
    This table proves absolutely nothing about US market or even real consumer preferences. You would have to factor out fleets, customs on imports (i.e. artificial price advantage), etc. before you could jump into any conclusions about real consumer preferences. F150, Silverado and Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable used to have highest number units sold in US. Does that mean consumer was really into Taurus?

    Year after year it was actually Honda Accord that sold most units to retail customers (you know, those transactions that you sell one at a time, not ten, fifty or thousand), topping even Camry (that has always had larger fleet content than Accord).

    Without those kind of insights those numbers are pretty much useless when it comes to gauging retail consumer preferences.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884
    I am not sure of the point you are trying to make. I was responding to a wild claim that VW had lost 160 BILLION Euros. That and making the point that in the EU folks have a choice of vehicles that we are not given. When given a CHOICE people do not buy Honda or Toyota. If the EPA and CARB had not tried their best to keep the fuel efficient cars out of the USA we would have had the same choices. I am betting that Toyota would not be nearly as big as our government has made them and Honda.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    Indeed that has been the operative reality of EPA and CARB: to keep out of the USA /at BAY fuel efficient cars.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    There is no conspiracy here from the government; plain simple it is demand in USA. People wanted a big cars, more horsepower, and a lot of gadgets; and the manufacturers were trying to please customers. Car companies they do not build cars based on what they think will work, they build there cars based on feedbacks from the customers. Today US customers have changed priority, the fuel efficiency is number one on the list of every shopper.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    I am not sure where you get a conspiracy from operative reality. You also discount that the TDI was banned in 5 states from 2005 to 2008.
  • iwant1tooiwant1too Posts: 29
    I'm in MA and diesel is about .85 per gal higher than RUG. A year ago the difference was about 3 cents. Now that's a brilliant way to encourage diesel use!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884
    Actually in CA, CARB blocked the sale of more than a very limited number of VW TDIs up until 2004 when they cut them off completely. When I tried buying a TDI Beetle in about 2003 the dealer told me their percentage for the year was reached by February IIRC. You are right it was not a conspiracy. It was an outright hatred of diesel cars by the head of CARB. Then the Wannabe states followed in step behind CA. When you eliminate the largest car buying state in the Union it makes it difficult to sell cars. The VW gassers have never been as fuel efficient and some of the others.

    I commend VW for perseverance against some pretty heavy hitters in the diesel haters group. So now they have beat the odds and passed the emissions tests. It will be interesting to see how high the oil companies run up the price of diesel. And how much extra the states tax diesel.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884
    One company not so worried, though, is Volkswagen, which is close to delivering Jetta TDI sedans to people who have already put deposits down. Howard Cooper Volkswagen in Ann Arbor, Mich., for example, says that a buyer putting money down today will probably have to wait until January to receive his car. Volkswagen of America plans to sell 15,000 TDI Jettas this year. Next year, VW figures to sell more than 30,000.

    The diesel sedan starts at $22,640, including shipping, and the station wagon at $24,240, a premium of about $2,000 over a similarly equipped model with a gasoline engine.
  • By the time VW ramps up production to sell any TDIs in real numbers, gas and diesel will be back down again to the point of it not justifying any premium, and maybe even may require a discount, to sell them.

    It's a fickle thing.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Posts: 735
    You might be right, but I'm some what skeptical.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    Look man the state is pressured by the lobbyists, and by those knuckle heads environmentalists. The state does not pass a law because they like gasoline and hate diesel cars. This country was so focused on horsepower and big SUVs. Just in 2001 the price of gasoline was $1.35 a gallon, today the price went beyond $4/gallon. Priorities of the buyers have changed, They don’t want to race anymore on the highway, they want fuel efficiency. Diesel in this country is taxed higher than gasoline by the federal government and by the states, and the reason was that only commercial vehicles use this fuel, and they can pass the cost back to the customers. This just one of the tricks the government use. Instead of raising taxes directly on people, they prefer to do it this way by raising the taxes on diesel. If more people were buying Diesel cars, government could not chose this method because they risk to lose their jobs during the election.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,884
    I agree with almost everything you have said. I am not sure about the racing. I see young people driving like they owned the gas station around here. Even in big lifted PU trucks and SUVs.

    I still hope that VW diesels make inroads in the market to save fossil fuel. I would never buy a gas VW. Just keep my current gas hogs.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    There is a good news today for the Jetta diesel, $1300 credit from the IRS, it qualify as for the Advanced Lean Burn Technology Motor Vehicle income tax credit. But the good news is followed by a bad news, I just talked to two dealers in my area, and they are adding $1000 that they are calling it prep work needed at the delivery time. There you have it. http://www.autobloggreen.com/category/diesel/
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