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VW Jetta TDI

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Comments

  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Why would you even call the dealer if you're not interested? When the phone stops ringing, they'll stop trying charge premiums. Pretty much every brand does this on hot models, so you can't blame them too much. I suppose the fact that they CAN sell them at such premium should tell you something about demand....but it will wane just like every other vehicle. Then the price conscious customers like myself (and I'm guessing you) can go and buy them for a more realistic price.
  • altair4altair4 Posts: 1,469
    I just talked to two dealers in my area, and they are adding $1000 that they are calling it prep work needed at the delivery time.

    Another example of gov't unintended consequences.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    I am not shopping for a car, as you said I will never pay a premium just to get first in line. I can get better deal 6 months from now. My wife's car is due for a change. But She is in no harry to change it. Honda is coming with a new accord diesel, and a hybrid, and the choices are going to be so attempting that some people may start trading cars that they just bought from other dealers. One more thing that I just learned from one of the dealer that service my wife car, that VW will be delivering to him 40% of the Jetta with diesel engine. Which is a good news, for people waiting to get one. I was before against buying the diesel because it did not make any sense to add the hefty primium just to drive diesel, but with the tax credit, and the fuel efficiency of the diesel cars, it start making some sense on a long run. But that all may change if the diesel skyrocketed and the gap between the gas and diesel go beyond the $1. If honda and GM start bringing their diesel from europe, the government will start thinking twice before rising taxes on diesel fuel, but until then this issue will not be solved.
  • I am not going to pay MSRP or more for a TDI Jetta. Not when diesel is 75 cents more per gallon than regular unleaded. Not when the car will be in its first year of production. Not when supply will be initially limited. Not when there's a good chance (I follow oil futures carefully) that crude oil and its derivatives will fall in price greatly over the next several months.

    No way.

    And especially since I have a perfectly fine car, and that gives me the ultimate incentive to sit back, bide my time, and move in when the incentives start to roll out on the TDI Jetta, probably in a year or so.

    The economy IS in bad shape. Diesel is not cheap. It would take a long time and a lot of miles to break even if you are buying a Jetta TDI versus a Jetta 2.5 gasoline model.

    So I will wait.

    Also, Honda/Acura and a few other makes are bringing sophisticated diesels to the U.S. market very, very soon, and this will only increase competition for buyers, thus pressuring prices down further.

    :shades:
  • jkinzeljkinzel Posts: 735
    I stopped by Larson VW, Tacoma, WA. 2006 Beetle TDI Pkg2 Blue, very nice, 11,XXX miles
    Please, sit down before reading further. ............ $26,999

    That is insane. One buck short of $27,000 for a Beetle. :surprise:

    I'll pass.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Posts: 735
    Larson VW has already pre sold 5 TDI Jetta Sport Wagons.

    I noticed on the on the window sticker of the Jetta Sedan TDI they had an ADM of $4999. Final price, $29,XXX

    I'll wait. Dealer Greed
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    I only want the Gecko Green 2006 Beetle TDI. As soon as the new Beetle TDI shows up that price will drop like a rock. Sadly some sucker will justify that horrible price. I would not pay more than $20k for a loaded used one. Oh well. That was the first year for the DSG. I hope it was not a manual without leather for that price.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    Tell them to give you a call when they really want your business. That is as bad as dealing with Toyota on a Prius.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Posts: 735
    The blue $27,000 Beetle was an auto, pkg 2 fully loaded.

    http://www.larson-vw.com/VehicleDetails/1055886004
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    That is about $4k over what Certified should be. There is a Toyota dealer here in SD with 5 used Prii last I checked. He is asking in the $32k to $35k range with various miles. He does not have any new ones.

    Let's hope that VWOA lets the dealers know that they are hurting the cause of VW with that kind of gouging on new vehicles. What can you say about used except buyer beware.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Posts: 735
    I just got off the phone with a salesman at a Portland, OR dealership and was told the following.

    Because of “mostly” the weak dollar and exchange rate VW has done the following; They originally were going to build 12,000 TDI Jetta wagons and sedans combined for the MY 2009 to be distributed to 643 VW dealers in the US. That number has been dropped to 8,000 TDI combined for MY 2009. He also said they (most dealer, not VW) are adding about $4,000 over MSRP for the TDI’s :cry:

    Bottom line, I guess, is forget the diesel for this year and see if the numbers increase for 2010.
  • ponytrekkerponytrekker Posts: 284
    GMC Acadias, Toyota Sequoia, Ford Thunderbird: all cars that sold for more than MSRP.

    No. Way.
  • The TDI is turning into an epic fail for VW.

    The Prius did not and won't for Toyota.

    The difference? Toyota actually builds and supplies their dealers with Prius' in the hundreds of thousands (soon to be building one million per year).

    With diesel at $4.79 a gallon, RUG starting to fall in price (crude oil is falling), VW enjoying a small, cult-like following for TDIs (meaning - once pent up demand is satisfied, buyer pool for diesels among Americans isn't that great), and with dealers marking up the TDI version of the Jetta for as much as $10,000 more than the standard gasoline version -

    THEY CAN KEEP IT!

    Let's run through the math, shall we, using 15,000 miles per year:

    I'll use mixed driving fuel average of the gasoline Jetta @ 24mpg (20 city, 29 highway).

    I'll assume mixed driving fuel average of the TDI Jetta @ 44mpg (50 highway, 38 city).

    I have skewed these figures IN FAVOR of the diesel Jetta, IMO.

    Okay.

    15,000 miles on the gasoline version = 625 gallons of gas per year (15000 divided by 24).

    That equals $2431 in gas (with regular unleaded gasoline) per year @ $3.89 per gallon (625 gallons x $3.89).

    Okay.

    15,000 miles on diesel version = 340 gallons of diesel per year (15000 divided by 44).

    That equals $1628 in diesel (with diesel) per year @ $4.79 a gallon (340 gallons x $4.79).

    $2431 - $1628 = $803 per year.

    So, UNDER THE MOST IDEAL CONDITIONS FAVORING THE TDI JETTA OVER THE GASOLINE JETTA, your break even point is about year number 9 with the premium that VW dealers are charging for the TDI Jetta.

    If diesel stays high, and gas falls, all bets are off. If diesel and gas fall together in proportion, break even is still year number 9.

    If you use less favorable figures on mpg than I used, which I believe are optimistic for the TDI unless you are a hypermiler, which is a PITA, your breakeven point will be more like 12 years.

    If gasoline falls more than diesel, break even will be more like 14 years.

    In other words, you are getting reamed if you pay the premiums dealers are asking for the TDI.

    VW screws up yet again.
  • vwinvavwinva Posts: 71
    Any real effect or just "dress up"? Specifically MPG.
  • vwinvavwinva Posts: 71
    A reminder. Nobody is making you pay the sticker price. The dealer is in business to make money. He will charge whatever the customer is willing to pay. If you're driving a gas SUV a diesel Jetta looks good even at dealer prices.
    You always have the option to fix up what you've got. I've got an 02 Jetta with 197K on it. I fix what breaks when it breaks and keep on driving. I quite expect to get 300K out it. Diesels last.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Yebbut, this only applies to the bone-heads that will pay the current premium. Once they mathematically challenged buy them up, the market should correct. Toyota wasn't producing many prius models at first either....which is why everyone was predicting failure on that front. Of course the Hybrid math still doesn't add up for the average commuter but they're selling.....at least I know historically (at least much longer than hybrids) the diesels have always maintained their value. Not when it's a multiple thousand dollar "dealer" markup...but the usually grand or two up front.
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Posts: 483
    "Diesels last."
    ==========================================================
    People who want to drive a car until it won't go any more are rare. Safety and convenience features alone are enough to get the largest demographic to change cars frequently (say it's pointless if you like, that is the reality). As far as lasting longer; I doubt it. The ex wife's diesel became undriveable at somewhere this side of 200K, and then only after many expensive repairs - she drives gassers now. The cab companies in my town use MB diesels which are very unreliable, and have not gone much beyond 200K. They are switching to Ford/Mercury CNG's, and would convert even more of them except for the spotty CNG supply problem. Their gasser have lasted well beyond 300K, and then only been taken out of the fleet due to frame failures. There is a lot of mythology surrounding diesels that will drive sales temporarily for the devoted, the curious, and the experimental. Its a car - if people like it enough to pay the premium and the costs, don't do much city driving, and even know they will trade it at five years, nobody will stop them. But it is not a silver bullet; like all cars it is a black hole for money, and another pollution machine. "Clean Diesel", or any "Green Car" term, is a Big Brotherism right up there with the best of the PR, marketing, and advertising BS. It makes people feel better, like ordering a Diet soda with a 1000 calorie fast food "meal". Bon Appetite!
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Posts: 483
    "...at least I know historically (at least much longer than hybrids) the diesels have always maintained their value."
    ============================================================
    Maybe sometimes. I watched a few years ago as a family who owned a Volvo diesel take almost a year to sell it, and then for far less than the comparable gas Volvo's were going for. I expect the diesel premium, if any, may be related to the "cultist" aspect of diesel, of which VW would be the temporary beneficiary.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Well sure, any very old vehicle is gonna be a tough sell. Haven't seen a Volvo diesel here since....lemme think on that. It was obviously a very old, expensive to fix (gas or diesel) car. Helped a guy sell a '90 Volvo awhile back for $500 and that wasn't exactly an easy sale.

    When I talk resale, I'm talking 5-6 year old vehicle or less. The diesel pickups hold their value fine and there's lot of choices and unlimited supply on the front end. Who knows what will happen but I wouldn't sweat a $1,000 or so premium these diesels should cost. It would take quite a swing to lose that premium in short order. And I have little doubt the Honda diesel will be any different. Probably even better in resale just because of their marketing positively effects their resale right from the start.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    There is one thing you all should know; why the used Jetta diesel was selling at such a high price, some 2 years old jetta’s were selling above the MSRP price; because VW stopped selling them on 2007 and all the fan of diesel start panicking that they may not see the diesel ever. Now that everybody knows that the problem with the mission have been solved by all companies, and they can bring those diesel cars in USA; the value of the diesel is going to go down. Because a lot of people are not familiar with the diesel, and they don’t want to venture in this purchase with $24,000. Plus the fact that $0.70 or $0.90 difference between gas and diesel is going to send people back to the gas. Manufacturer will have hard time to sell them, unless they lower the price by $1000 for the diesel, which won’t make a sense for them since the diesel cars cost more to make than the gasoline ones. One year from now tings are going to be very interesting, still the hybrid cars are the way to go on the highway and on city driving; the new Honda IMS system will supplement the system during the highway driving, by running the A/C and radio, and most electrical systems, plus give torque for passing, and in those situation where you need more power for merging. Is going to be interesting.
  • novanova Posts: 135
    Just be patient all the cars that I have ever seen that went for MSRP or more all come down. The whole economy is in the dump. Other manufactures are coming out with diesels. Diesel is more than regular here by .75 cents.One poster mentioned the T bird my brother bought one for under invoice. If you have to be the first one and have plenty of money and want to throw it away that is your choice. The price will come DOWN
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    You are exactly right. Watch the fuel prices and the car prices will follow them. The Prius sold for below invoice for quite a long period. Only came back up with the price of gas. Now the Prius is being gouged big time because Toyota is not supplying them because of battery shortages. The VW TDI will be popular and expensive for a few months. When the gotta have it bunch are satisfied they will get back to reality. VW dealers are just like all the other dealers. They have a hot seller the customer will get shafted. Patience is the key to buying a car and selling a car. Never trade unless you want to lose $1000s on your old car. That is if it is worth anything. If it is wore out best to just let the dealer wholesale it.

    It looks to me like the Jetta TDI will be worth waiting to get a good deal. You will more than likely double your mileage over the gas version. And best of all you do not have to use the awful ethanol laced gas being sold these days. That will save you another 10% in fuel savings.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    One correction you should know, Ethanol is added to diesel too. Our government is completely invested in Ethanol. They need crush course on 101 economy how thing need to be look at it.
  • morey000morey000 Posts: 322
    er, yeah, but...
    the Prius drives like sh*t and the interior is awful.

    So, if money isn't the biggest driver, and you want a nice sports sedan that gets good milage, what are your other choices? The E320 mercedes?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    Ethanol is added to diesel too.

    Where do you get your ideas? That would likely ruin most diesle engines. In the EU some countries add biodiesel to diesel. That is NOTHING like ethanol.

    E-diesel does not meet all the ASTM specifications for diesel fuel, it probably cannot be legally sold at the retail level in most states. The major concern with the use of E-diesel derives from its flammability characteristics.E-diesel blends containing 10% to 15% ethanol have the vapor pressure and flammability limits of ethanol. This means that ethanol concentrations in enclosed spaces such as fuel storage and vehicle fuel tanks are flammable over the temperature range of 13 to 42°C, typical ambient temperatures. Thus, there are increased risks of fire and explosion compared to diesel fuel, or even gasoline. Other vehicle performance-related concerns have also been raised. These include decreased maximum power, increased incidence of fuel pump vapor lock, and reduced fuel pump and fuel injector life due to the decreased lubricity of ethanol.

    http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/34817.pdf

    Show us your link...
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    The E320 mercedes?

    And a great option it is. They are available in CA in very limited numbers for lease. If I needed a 4 door sedan that would be the car i would buy. I wish my wife's 1990 LS400 would quit and I would be able to justify buying one for her. She loves MB diesel. That is what she owned when she bought her LS400 in 1989.
  • mrsixpackmrsixpack Posts: 39
    I think it comes down to how much you drive. If you drive many many miles then diesel is the way to go, if you drive very little then gas is the way to go. You will have a heck of a time trying to recover the added cost for the diesel engine and the added cost of fuel if its not driven.....the opposit is true for gas, the gas engine is cheaper and you make out better if it just looks good sitting in your driveway !
  • Every American should literally be giving their representatives in Congress an earful regarding ethanol. The people in the agri-belt probably won't, as they're some of the benefactors of the great corn scam.

    Ethanol is less efficient than gasoline or diesel, is corrosive, has caused food inflation, has caused farm runoff pollution (corn is a water and fertilizer intense crop), and is subsidized at the rate of 51 cents per gallon with your tax dollars.

    If we're going to be forced to use ethanol, lets at least get sugar-based ethanol from Brazil, which without the corn-ethanol subsidy, would be close to $1.85 per gallon cheaper (we levy a 52 cent per gallon tariff on Brazilian cane sugar ethanol, which is still cheaper than corn-based domestic ethanol, in addition to the 51 cent subsidy paid to U.S. farmers).
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    I agree with all you said. That is one of my reasons for wanting a diesel vehicle. I do think that eventually biodiesel will become a viable alternative and I will have a vehicle to run on it. With the volatility in the market we could have shortages of either gas or diesel. It would be nice to have an alternate. An EV would be handy when all the gas stations are out of fuel.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Regardless of the ridiculously high resale of TDI's in the last couple years (of which I capitalized on), prior to that they have always maintained good resale value. No they didn't sell for nearly new prices, but the variance between the gas and diesel was always at least the same as when new. So you give up present value of cash to pay the premium up front and easily make that back in fuel savings.

    Hybrid Camry is rated 33 city, 34 highway. Doesn't sounds like it's anywhere near as efficient as a TDI on the highway...even with $1.00 higher diesel prices.

    And diesel is only $.75-1.00 more than gas recenty because gas has dropped $.35 in the last few weeks. I paid $3.66 to fill the Odyssey yesterday. Pump diesel here is running $4.59 and should see a correction within the week. The company I'm working with (mining operation....buys over two million gallons of fuel a month) has seen a $.30 decrease in the last week for our on-road diesel. The stations are usually a week behind our pricing on diesel for some reason. We're anticipating $4.05/gallon for on-road diesel within the next week. We usually pay about $.05 less than retail pump prices.
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