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VW Jetta TDI

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    Karen,
    Welcome to the Forum. If I were you I would go with the Corolla. It is a good car and gets decent mileage. If you look at pay back as a major criteria you will not be able to justify the Jetta TDI. If you really like to get out and drive cross country there are some benefits to the Jetta that you will not get with the Corolla. There will more than likely be a limited supply of the Jetta TDI for the next year or maybe longer. That will impact the price you will be paying. Right now the Corolla is priced right and cars like the Prius and Jetta TDI are Over priced.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,916
    Actually the whole small car segment is currently "overpriced". That is the good/bad news. It is truly weird even to me that we can sell a 4/5 year old Civic for $500 less than what we paid new! Between a Corolla/Civic, we got the Civic. We plan to keep it a min of 450,000 miles. So with you keeping it only 6 years. I would consider others that are even cheaper.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    Since you don't care about the money, and you don't care about the conservation of energy, you are in the wrong forum.

    If you could look back at the posts from 1998 you would find my original search was for a small diesel PU truck. I had talked to a couple of fellows from Brazil that had driven a Ranger diesel PU from the tip of So America to the Arctic Ocean where I was working. They had averaged 45 MPG and I wanted just such a PU truck. However the USA being the backward country we are instead of charging more tax for fuel and trying to use less, we go along with the oil companies and use more which in the end provides plenty of road tax. You may not know that we have the best Congress that the lobbyist money can buy. You are right in the fact that I may buy a MB or BMW diesel SUV and sell my Sequoia. That does not mean I am not interested in the diesels that VW have to offer. I check each day for a nice used VW Beetle TDI or Golf TDI as a runabout. So you see I have probably been interested in saving fuel for longer than you have. I started in 1969 buying a VW Beetle to save on gas. Probably the worst car I ever owned was a 1978 Honda Accord. That said:

    If you think so highly of the Toyota and Honda Hybrids why are you in the VW diesel forum? You should be over there telling people how there is no way you can pay $35k for a Prius and ever get your money back. They will love you over there.

    PS
    Don't go and test drive the VW Jetta TDI, you will just be frustrated driving a Honda or Toyota.

    This is all I was interested in. They were able to drive in the USA. Just not be sold in the USA. 45 MPG vs 15 MPG in a Ranger V6 gasser. You do the math.

    image
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    I do not think you understand my previous messages; I am not against the Diesel cars, I have been driving Diesel more than you did all your life. Remember I came from Europe precisely from France, 65% of the cars are diesel, most small cars from Peugeot and Renault and Citroen are Diesel and can get as much as 60 MPG, because they are not heavy and they have good (cd#). But when it come to Diesel against Gasoline here in USA, there is too many people in the government and the oil companies, that they don’t like the idea of alternative fuel energy. If tomorrow the Hydrogen fuel cell is perfected to the point that the system in those cars can produce the hydrogen from water or other source of energy; oil companies will be trying to push the government to apply some kind of taxes to those cars. Too many lobbyist in this country, everybody is thinking of himself.
    Diesel gives you better fuel mileage, but it cost more to make a gallon of diesel out of crude oil, than it does to make a gallon of gasoline. Remember the amount of BTU in Diesel is more than the amount of BTU in gasoline, and that is for reason; it takes more crude oil to make 1 gallon of diesel. Another factor, is the gasoline technology is closing the gap in MPG that diesel achieve vs the MPG gasoline does. The new direct injection engine increased the fuel economy for some cars by 10%, heated fuel line, high pressure injection system (robust injectors and fuel pumps) will increase the MPG by another 20%. Haven’t you see that GM is coming up with a replacement for the Chevy COBALT, called (CRUZE) that can achieve 40 MPG; it is due in (2010). I guess the love connection that use to exist between oil companies and US auto makers are thing of the past, now every one of these companies is trying to survive. You think the gas price went down just like that; there are different factors that pushes the price back where it suppose to be.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,916
    ..."there is too many people in the government and the oil companies, that they don’t like the idea of alternative fuel energy"...

    You are saying precisely (not the same words however) what we have been saying all along!

    ..."Diesel gives you better fuel mileage, but it cost more to make a gallon of diesel out of crude oil, than it does to make a gallon of gasoline. "...

    The first part of your sentence is TRUE enough. However the rest of your sentence is FALSE based on a misunderstanding of the distillation process. Upshot: technologically from a barrel of oil; 100% of either product can not be distilled. Gagrice alluded to it when he has said several times if we have gasoline we have diesel and vice versa. If you want a more technological explanation Chevron.com might be a great place with informational overload, to start.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    I did crunch the numbers in front of you; go back to my previous posts. Any 5th grader can do this calculation and he/she will tell you that you loose with the Diesel. That’s not considering the fact that the market next year is coming with more refined and fuel efficient cars, trucks and CUV, than you can think of right now. Auto manufacturers have been squeezed to the point that they are working under pressure right now. Gasoline engine is getting refined and they are closing the gap in MPG against the Diesel engines. Production of new models like the electric/ hybrid car VOLT from GM is now suppose to be released 1 year earlier than was announced before. Don’t get me wrong, Diesel is good, but not that good, compared with alternatives. There are two things that need to happen before people start considering the diesel cars, first the price of Diesel cars need to be no more than $1000 difference with comparable gasoline, second the states and the federal government need to tax the Diesel at the same rate as the gasoline. If these two thing does not happen in the near future, the Diesel does not have a chance in hell, and who ever own diesel in the next 5 years from now, will be stack with car that worth nothing just keep driving it. As I said something has to change to make the Diesel viable fuel for cars in USA.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    The new direct injection engine increased the fuel economy for some cars by 10%

    Lo and behold, what the automakers give you the government takes away. They are adding 10% ethanol that on average reduces our gas mileage by 10%. That is a MAJOR reason that I do not like gas vehicles. Straight regular unleaded is a decent fuel. When the government mandated MTBE it polluted our ground water. Now they are adding ethanol that will cause who knows what yet. Your argument that they are adding ethanol to diesel has no basis in fact. I do not know of anywhere in the USA they are adding ethanol to the diesel. So the big mileage advantage for diesel still exists. I am not saying our government will not figure a way to reduce our mileage. They are good at that. I really do not care about a Cobalt or a Cruze. I could buy an old Honda CRX HF and get 50 MPG today. Plus they were one of the few cars Honda ever made that were fun to drive. I want comfort, good handling, and good economy. With the ability to go off the highway into the desert without dragging on the rocks. Do you get the picture? The only vehicles that fit that are SUVs with diesel engines. I could consider an SUV as small as the VW Tiquan if it comes with a diesel engine and gets close to 40 MPG on the highway. I would be real excited about the Sportwagon TDI if it had about 3 more inches of ground clearance.

    I would give Toyota or Honda a look if and when they bring a diesel SUV to the US market. Nothing they have right now interests me in the least.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,916
    What you did was incorrect then, and is still incorrect.

    I did the math in terms of fuel cost per mile driven, and it is MORE than clear the per mile driven cost is cheaper for diesel. No real magic why they price diesel far more than RUG. PUG of course is closer in price to D2. Of course, those in total denial, might not agree. ;)

    Indeed when you peel back the layers, it is easy to see one of the reasons why Europe can charge outrageous per gal prices for RUG to PUG and D2 is because upwards of 50% of the vehicle fleet is D2 !!??? The unused/unsold RUG to PUG being sold to a 98% USA RUG to PUG consumer !!! Truly it is the "OTHER" side of the distillation percentage deal !!! Indeed I have shown on a few posts, that "per mile driven", we pay pretty much the same as Europe !!!!! So it is pretty easy to make $4. cost the same as $9 dollar gas. (per mile driven) It is the same 5th grade math!!! RATIOS!!!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    I did crunch the numbers in front of you; go back to my previous posts

    You know something? Many of us here have crunched the numbers on the hybrids vs gas vs diesel. The bottom line is if you just need an economical car and do not care about amenities, handling, braking, comfort, safety, you are better off with a Fit or a Yaris. There is NO WAY any of the hybrids or diesels can compete dollar for dollar. So crunch to your hearts content. There are those that like what the hybrids offer and those that like what diesel has to offer. And we are not worried about the premium. Some things cannot be crunched.

    PS
    I still have the $27k in the bank from selling my 2005 Passat TDI. I made a $3k profit after driving the car for 13 months. Try that with any Honda.
  • A couple of years ago when I actively posted here, the hosts would constantly warn and/or shut down threads that go off topic or become flame wars.

    Why are all the diesel threads allowed to get bogged down with total crap that has nothing to do with the topic at hand?

    "Diesels in the News" rarely ever mentions any of the new products in the pipeline. It's a constant battle of hybrid vs. diesel, and environuts vs. the anti Carb folks.

    Now this thread, which has the first significant mass market diesel car in years, has become the same.

    The continued refusal of the hosts to moderate these comments continues Edmunds lack coverage to upcoming diesels.

    (...stepping off soapbox)
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    Try to sell a diesel car at that price next year. When Honda is coming with Accord diesel, and maybe Odyssey, and Pilote diesel. And GM may bring their own diesel from Europe. and Chrysler has already diesel product in pipeline. The MPG for all these cars will be the only selling point in the eye of the consumer plus the price. If you're buying the diesel only based on resale value, you're like those speculators in wall-street, they get burned multiple time until they are bankrupt.
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Posts: 483
    "I still have the $27k in the bank from selling my 2005 Passat TDI. I made a $3k profit after driving the car for 13 months. Try that with any Honda."
    ============================================================This means nothing. I routinely sold my used cars for more than I bought them for used, including my Volvo 240, Dodge Dart, and Pinto.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,916
    I would disagree. If Toyota/Honda had come out with a Corolla/Civic turbo diesel, it would have TOTALLY revolutionized the small car market segment. As good as the Civic gets, (38-42 mpg) a Civic TDI @ (swag) 50 to 56 mpg is better !!!!! 32% to 33% better! .

    Instead US (gasser) small car resale prices have firmed to increased !!!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    routinely sold my used cars for more than I bought them for used, including my Volvo 240, Dodge Dart, and Pinto

    That is simple for anyone that knows the used car market. Try it with a new car and get back to me.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    I am sorry for my part. I just feel obligated for those that come in and see all the anti diesel rabble spewed by people that are clueless.

    I am excited about the Jetta TDI. My local dealer is going to give me a call as soon as he gets the Sportwagon TDI in for test drives. Someone must have one as there is a post of 46 MPG average on the EPA fuel economy site for the automatic DSG version. That is considerably better than the 33 combined MPG from the EPA estimates. I will be watching when more folks start posting their mileage. If you can get 40-45 MPG from a station wagon what will even come close?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,916
    Indeed I post MPG TDI and (gasser) Civic results for a "like/like" commute comparison. So in a lesser sense, what mpg a (gasser) Civic gets is really off topic. However it IS on topic as it puts it in context AND comparison: given an identical point A to B commute and AVERAGE MPG. I am probably one of the few that can give a real time/life side by side comparison. Even at that they say I HATE gassers and bias against them. I just run the commute and do the math. Go figure!? :confuse:
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I'm here, I'm here! :)

    Anytime you feel a discussion needs a host's attention, the best thing to do is email the host with the specifics of your concerns. You will always find a link to his or her (or their) profile at the top of the discussion page.

    I don't host the other diesel discussion you mention, so I do encourage you to email Steve and Clair.

    As for this one, you are right, it would be good if we stuck to the TDI Jetta specifically, but diesel is diesel (or else it's not) and that bears some discussion too.

    If you (or anyone) feel(s) that specific posts are outside of the Membership Agreement, please email me (do not post them here) your concerns along with the post numbers and I'll be happy to review them.

    Thanks for your thoughts.
  • bobgwtwbobgwtw Posts: 187
    Depends at lot on how many miles you drive. As for differences between the 2 cars; the Jetta will be a lots more fun to drive ; but the maintenance on VW's is expensive; and they tend to "break" more often than the Toyota's. An excellent comparative tool & source of information is the Consumers Report Annual Auto edition

    The Corolla won't be as much fun to drive; but they don't "break" very often; and your maintenance costs will be less.
    .
    Unless you drive a heck of a lot of miles & really appreciate the good road manners of the VW, the Toyota is the more practical, & economical choice.
  • bobgwtwbobgwtw Posts: 187
    Your post appears to be trying to say that Consumers Report subscribers are "different".

    Understand the information in their statistics is not about the subscribers, but about the cars. Cars perform alike for subscribers and non-subscribers; so yes, their repiorts & statistics on durability & problems are accurate and a very good compaarative tool.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    We will just have to disagree on CR. I don't believe they get a wide enough scope to give an accurate picture. They only get the opinions of subscribers.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    You got to really want to race to pay $35k to get into this series.

    An eight-race series where 30 drivers duke it out in identically-prepped Jettas based largely on the 2009 Volkwagen Jetta TDI you'll see soon in VW showrooms, the TDI Cup was created in large part to help young drivers like Kenney achieve bigger and better things in motorsport, as well as to build awareness for VW's next-generation clean diesel efforts.

    Chosen after an extensive vetting process from an initial pool of some 900 candidates (only drivers age 16 to 26 are eligible), Kenny and his 29 fellow competitors in the Jetta TDI Cup are essentially a part of one big factory race team. For an initial buy in of $35,000, each driver gets his own Jetta Cup car for the season, world class instruction and support from Volkswagen factory drivers and technicians, along with other skills coaching such as the art of wooing sponsors, media relations, and fitness training.

    "They give us all the basic pieces, but it's up to us to make something of it," says Kenney, an energetic, articulate teen with bright-blue eyes, blonde-streaked hair, and a race driver's prototype build.

    The SCCA Pro Racing sanctioned series is modeled after Volkswagen's successful Polo Cup in Europe. Only tire pressures allowed to be adjusted and cars are swapped randomly among drivers as the season wears on. Winners receive $1000 for each race and points are awarded, with the champion scoring a cool $100,000 along with the possibility of getting an extra $150,000 if they are signed to a racing team. All drivers will likely get an SCCA pro license after the season concludes. Smack up your car bad enough though, and you will pay for damages on a sliding scale.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    Fact is, there's very little difference between the best and worst reliable vehicles on the road. And the available statistics prove that.

    That is absolutely correct. VW has made giant strides to improve areas that were problematic. Our 2005 Passat TDI was flawless for the 13 month and 8000 miles we owned it. It was also the most fun to drive of all the cars I have owned. I probably wasted diesel just driving because of the sheer enjoyment. I would think the new Jetta TDI would be even better with the DSG transmission. That may be reason to buy a boring car. You would be less apt to just go out and drive for the pleasure.

    I talked to the dealer in Portland that I bought the Passat from. They are not planning to charge any premium on the TDIs. I have thought of buying one and shipping it to Hawaii for our time spent there. The real problem there are all the rutted roads we drive looking at property. Clearance is always an issue with me it seems. So much easier with an SUV.

    In search of the perfect vehicle.
  • vwinvavwinva Posts: 71
    Had my TDI in the shop for repairs. Mechanic disconnected battery. Radio no longer works. All I get is "MUTE" on the LCD. No mute button on the console, no mention of "mute" in the manual. Radio is a VW unit for Monsoon sound system. Anyone else had this problem? If yes, what was solution? All the dealer can tell me is "there is a problem in the unit".
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    There is probably some code that has to be put in for the radio to work. It is protection against theft. When the power is taken off the radio, it cannot be used without keying in a unique code. It should be with your paper work. The dealer should be aware of that.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    We're going to take a break here to cool off. We'll be back in a bit and we'll hope (and expect) that everyone will be able to communicate more civilly and more on topic.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Okay, assuming everyone has calmed down and taken some good deep breaths, we'll try this again. Let me remind everyone that this is NOT a general diesel topic, nor is it a Jetta TDI against the world topic.

    Those who want to discuss the Jetta TDI specifically are welcome to continue. Those who want to discuss other related subjects (or non-related such as the usefulness of Consumer Reports) are invited to use the search features to find a more appropriate discussion. Feel free to email me if you need help finding one.

    Lots of posts have disappeared. If you find that you have posts missing, please be aware that continued off-topic and disruptive posting will put your privileges in this topic in jeopardy.

    Thank you for your cooperation in continuing with a civil and on-topic conversation.
  • New guy here. I'm interested in the TDI. Anyone know when they will start arriving in dealer lots? My local dealer said they are still not sure when to expect them.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    Many dealers already have demo models on the lot. Did your dealer try to extract a deposit from you? My local dealer in San Diego told me I could order one the way I want it at MSRP and expect delivery in 90 days. Was that just hype? I don't know. We all have had a car salesman tell a big one to get a sale.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    I heard the dealer talking about the end of this month August 2008. But he did add that he would not be surprise if the first delivery happen in September 2008. From his comment, I do not think he know the exact first delivery date for the VW 2009 Jetta TDI. But I know for sure that they already sold the Demo cars.
  • Yes, I took the demo for a test drive. It really impressed me. My sales guys say that pre orders is a bunch of, well you know. They hear that other dealers are telling customers that they can order them one and that is just is not true.Their VW rep. said that the who gets what part is still being worked on by VW. This info was told to me on July 31. I was wondering if someone else had heard any more that I have.
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