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VW Jetta TDI

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Comments

  • gfr1gfr1 Posts: 55
    siberia -- Test results, such as "50 to 70" are dictated by the tester, but generally specified. If you read the test parameters, you will likely find the procedures of the test. And, "fgbreult" is correct and you -- in-correct. That particular speed test is normally done from top gear steady speed cruise, with no manipulation of clutch/transmission allowed. If you have an auto trans., it will normally downshift. If you have a manual, it is staying in the top gear, unless it has an overdrive drop-down and I don't think there are any of those around these days. That's why this test with a manual is always much slower accelerating than a auto. -- gfr
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    You are correct. Thank you for the correction:

    http://www.caranddriver.com:80/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/performance_fi- les_tested_by_c_d/how_does_c_d_test_cars_feature+t-acceleration_and_braking+page- -2.html

    We also perform two acceleration tests, from 30 to 50 mph and from 50 to 70, in a vehicle's highest gear. In vehicles with manual transmissions, this test measures how well a car's gearing matches the torque curve of its engine. With automatics, the test begins in top gear and then the car downshifts automatically under hard acceleration. This provides information about transmission responsiveness and actual passing times, but any comparison of results between manuals and automatics is meaningless.

    Just one more in a life-long series of embarrassments. :blush:
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,908
    ..."Just one more in a life-long series of embarrassments"...

    FAR better than pressing an untenable position !! It of course does wonders for the credibility !! So for my .02 cents, I salute you. :shades:

    My own take is an article like this should be required reading to at least be able to judge the significance of the tests AND probably more importantly its application in folks' own driving needs/styles/etc., etc., etc.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    In my driving experience the 30-50 and 50-70 MPH times are much more important than 0-60 MPH. Accelerating to get past a big truck or slow car is a daily occurrence on our Interstate highways. I cannot remember the last time I accelerated from 0-60 MPH. These are both areas the diesel engines have it over most gas engines. Especially little 4 cylinder gassers.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,908
    I have never seen the real life "PRACTICAL" passing measurement: 10-12 seconds in any car magazine!!!

    Most folks do this as a matter of real life driving, but if you are wondering what I am talking about it is a cluelessness that can get you killed in the worst case or keep you unconscienously fear full.

    So let me ask the question how long does it take one to normally pass another vehicle going in the same direction. (ON a two lane road with YOU going in the opposite directions lane of travel-under "ideal conditions" ) AND someone coming @ YOU?
  • beetee3beetee3 Posts: 2
    I just heard that the 2010 Jetta is getting a body redesign. Anyone have any idea of what the changes are or where the new model can be seen.

    Thanks
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,908
    This link should be clear (as mud)!?

    link title
  • mike91326mike91326 SoCalPosts: 245
    I'm thinking of getting a 2009 Jetta TDI and I wanted to know what the difference is between the Jetta TDI and Jetta TDI Loyal Edition? It looks like there's only about a $150 difference between the two.
  • mike91326mike91326 SoCalPosts: 245
    When do you think VW will bring out the 2010's?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,908
    Judging by a few made dates on the door posts, they are made the June before the next model year. So the 2010 MYproduction starts in June 2009. What drives the gate keepers is anybody's guess.

    The differences between the loyal and the regular can be searched in www.edmunds.com.

    I remember that I thought it was a good deal, if you wanted all the extra stuff the loyal came with; that would cost more if you had to option it out on the standard. As I remember the loyal came in 1 max 2 colors. Again just fine if you happened to like those color choices.
  • longo2longo2 Posts: 347
    Mike, it seems that the Loyal Edition is pretty much the same as the regular TDI except for this.....

    "The Jetta TDI sedan is equipped similar to the SEL sedan, but comes with 16-inch alloy wheels and doesn't have a sunroof. A special edition known as the TDI Loyal adds premium speakers."

    There must be more, but that's all I can find on Edmonds.
    For the fancy name I would expect some options a little more obvious, but as you say, the money to 'upgrade' is not much more either so perhaps, that's all you get for being "Loyal"
    If it is a 'special color, it might be "Candy White" a subtle change from Campanella White, which to me looks more like 'Refrigerator White'. I have seen the 2 colors side by side.
    The Candy White is a much nicer, warmer white, kind of 'creamy'.
    With a beige interior, and sunroof, it looks light and beautiful inside.
  • longo2longo2 Posts: 347
    Looks like VW has figured out that the Multifunction Steering Wheel controls needed to be made standard on the new 2010 Wagon.
    That is going to PO a lot of 2009 buyers that miss that feature.

    The new design of the 2010 steering wheel function buttons look a lot better than the old phone push buttons that VW has been using for the past few years.

    But I think a well ecquiped 2006 TDI with the "Package 2" options still blows the new model away.
  • rv65rv65 Posts: 1,074
    There will be a new touch screen radio for the 2010 model year called the Premium VIII. This new radio will support the MDI which allows for full iPod or USB integration. You can't use the USB cable for iPod playback. You must use a special MDI iPod cable in order to playback an iPod. The touch screen radio looks like the RNS-510 but has no HDD or DVD playback. It does have a 6 MP3/CD/WMA changer though. Not the best display resolution wise but it's adequate. Hope this helps.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Unless you are buying used I expect you will not find a Loyal Edition. It was a limited run at the introduction of the 09 TDI. Loyal Edition had an amp under the seat which is not present or available on current 09's, it also had a few other minor differences.
  • dfciiidfciii Posts: 12
    The EPA changed the ratings around. I just bought a brand new 2009 VW Jetta TDI 2 days ago and it is rated for 40 highway and on the brand new engine with less than 300 miles I have been averaging 45MPG. The ratings are so far off that it stinks. The car once it is broke in will easily get 50+MPG. The only things that makes me suspicious of this new clean diesel is that today my car went to the shop. The cooling fan relay is faulty, and now I am without my car for almost 4 days to have them fix it. IT IS ONLY 2 DAYS OLD!!! Already having trouble, which makes me wonder about their built in mexico quality.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,908
    Well the good/bad news is better now (under warranty) than later (NOT). The old warranty of 4 years 50,000 miles I considered meager at the time. Your 2009 warranty is Toyota/Honda like @ 3 years and 36,000 miles.
  • dfciiidfciii Posts: 12
    Yes, I totally agree with you, but since it was new technology i decided to buy the 100,000 mile warranty, and now I am glad i did. The one I bought covers everything 100% so I can at least have some peace of mind.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,908
    Well the technology that is the most untested (120,000 miles warranty by Fed law) is the new 50 state emissions system. On two so called problematic oems and products that I have personally considered I am batting 100% (no issues) during the length of the warranty miles and terms. One I did buy (2001 Corvette Z06) and one I did not buy 2003 VW Jetta. I have asked almost everyone I know involved with the 2009 Jettas (vendors,owners, folks that know folks..... three dealers even) and outside of the "normal new car" adjustment stuff, this seems to have a better ratio than products that have come before.
  • dfciiidfciii Posts: 12
    Yeah, no other car company that sells in America can claim the clean diesel technology that VW has come up with. It doesnt take Urea like MB, BMW, and many other luxury models, and it does not require dealers to service the particulate filter like some other brands. It seems like a win win situation, and that is why I bought one. I just wish it would not have broken so soon, as that lets a 27000 dollar distaste in my mouth about VW. Overall, I love it though.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,908
    Yes I hear you. It is no comfort I am sure to be the statistical anomoly.

    It would seem that with EVERY oem, sometimes it is a game of dodging the known and unknown "bullets".

    Not to get too far afield from the topic, but I see that side by side with a 2004 Honda Civic. It was next to the last (05) MY. So in theory,not the best of that gen but certainly not the worst. Years later hindsight(actually following Edmunds.com Civic threads) tells me I dodged HUGE bullets by not getting the 2006 MY, as it had HUGE rear tire wear issues and replacement of major/minor suspension parts, to correct. In a huge percentage of "hard" cases, it is still not corrected and I would assume NOT correctable.

    Now I am VERY happy with the 2004 Civic and it has literally been FLAWLESS with 86,000 miles. BUT... in an A/B comparison, I have had to have 3 alignments to non being needed in the VW @ 118,000 miles. Tires shot @ 74,300 miles vs 112,300 in the VW, etc. Honda Civic pads and rotors a known weakness....
  • shriftyshrifty Posts: 255
    Hi dfciii, welcome to the club! My check engine light came on after 70 miles when I got my car home from the dealership, turns out it was a fuel pump relay that wasn't seated properly. I agree, building in Mexico may not have been the best choice.

    Over 17,000 miles later and no further issues with mine, I hope you will be as fortunate. I agree with ruking, at least it will be covered under warranty, although it still doesn't help the feeling that you may have made a bad purchase.
  • longo2longo2 Posts: 347
    If you check the EPA ratings you will find that the TDI's are the only vehicles that are getting 10% or higher mpgs than posted.
    SO what's going on with the EPA?

    I hate to sound like it's a conspiricy to make the Diesels sound as bad as possible, but I think that might be a big part of it. The EPA has been a toothless tiger that is mired in politics. It wouldn't surprise me if some day we find out just how much of what goes on there, is fudged and jiggled to make certain vehicles seem to get better mpg's than they really do.

    Check this site and you will see real mpgs from real owners....take off the worst and discount the best owner posting, then you will find that the average mpgs are still well above the EPA on the TDI's.

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm

    So get the relay replaced and enjoy the all round, best for the money, fuel efficent car on the road today.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    A few of us have debated that subject extensively. The bottom line is the EPA tries to make one test fit all technologies and it is not possible. The current tests implemented in 2008 seem to be optimized for accuracy with the hybrids. The old test gave them totally unrealistic ratings. However the old test was pretty accurate for the diesels from VW. Diesel is hardly the fuel of choice in Washington, so it is not surprising that they would have tests that favor what they would like to shove onto the public. It would not be so bad if the error was not so glaring. With the MB diesel SUVs the difference is close to 20% from reality. The only bright side is people are pleasantly surprised when they get much better mileage than they expected.

    I am watching to see how the EPA tests the Plug in Hybrids and EVs. See if their one size fits all works for them. IMO they are a bunch of lazy civil servants sucking US dry.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Don't forget that EPA rating also determines the amount of available tax credit :blush:
  • dfciiidfciii Posts: 12
    Longo2, you could not be any more correct than you are. The EPA is secretly dealing better cards to American car companies who pay them off to give their gas hog trucks better ratings than anyone can hope to achieve. I had a 2007 Chevy Silverado 1500LT Crewcab, with the 4.8L V8, rated at 19 highway, and i barely got 15. Then I buy this 2009 Jetta, and almost like magic it is rated 40 highway and I run 45 combined average on the first tank. If every car in America got this good of mileage, the oil companies would stand to loose billions and would shreak to the government for handouts. The government is only looking out for American companies no matter how bad their product is, and does not support the foreign reliable brands like subaru, vw, honda, and toyota, to name a few. IT IS ONE BIG CONSPIRACY.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Posts: 735
    If every car in America got this good of mileage, the oil companies would stand to loose billions and would shreak to the government for handouts.

    Oil companies would only loose a drop in the bucket compared to the lost revenue to Federal and State Governments from lost gas taxes. So who benefits most from keeping diesel passenger cars off US highways? The Saudi’s and the oil companies, Federal and State Government. Follow the money, it’s not a difficult trail, bread crumbs all over the place.

    Our government talks a good line of oil independence and conservation, but it’s the last thing they want you to do because it hurts the bottom line.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    Yes I have argued that point a lot with the Hybrid huggers around here. The Jetta TDI is more of an improvement over the gas version than the Prius over say a Corolla or Matrix. Yet the Jetta gets a paltry $1300 tax credit and the Prius $3100. And the Prius was based on the old test that claims 60 MPG in the city. What a joke the EPA is. And a real detriment to getting vehicles on the road that will significantly cut our use of fossil fuel. Then maybe the powers do not want to cut the usage.

    The reality is Jetta TDI owners on average are getting 40% improvement in MPG over the standard 2.5L gas engine sold in the Jetta. Many are getting over 50% improvement.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    So who benefits most from keeping diesel passenger cars off US highways?

    You have hit at the heart of the problem. The gas tax in CA is over double what the oil companies make on a gallon of gas. The Government has no investment in the production and only use a fraction of the revenue to maintain roads. You are so right. The tax and spenders do not want US to get better mileage. At least till they figure out how to tax by the mile.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,908
    If there is anybody that needs/wants to verify/prove this for themselves, the formula is pretty straight forward, albeit a tad (actually a LOT) convoluted.

    Just go to the Motor fuel excise tax link title (your) state's line item entry of taxation for diesel and RUG/PUG /(divided by the mpg) and that will give you taxation in cents per mile driven. The convolution portion is that you have to back out the (normal) state sales tax (and/or exceptions, additions, deletions, modifiers....) and add it to the per gal taxation to get the "total" taxation.

    So for example, the VW (2003) is the most straight forward, ;) since it has RUG 2.0 @ 25 mpg combine, PUG 1.8T @ 25 mpg combine, D2 1.9T @ 49 mpg combine: models.

    (Uncle Sam) Fed gets 24.3 RUG/PUG , 24.4 D2, and 13.1 gasohol

    Now CA (for example and not to pick on one state) has the interesting 3 cup monte in that the tax (as of 01/2008) was .18 cents per gal for 1. gasoline, 2. D2 and 3. gasohol.

    CA SST here is up to 9.75 % So PER GAL, RUGPUG .227/.247, D2 .20

    So for example corner store pricing per gal RUG 2.75,RUG 2.95, D2 2.49

    So I hope folks eyes aren't getting glazed over.

    TAXATION ONLY % of sales price
    RUG 27.9%
    PUG 26.5%
    D2 30.14%

    RUG .65 per gal/25 mpg=.026 per mile driven
    PUG .67 per gal/25 mpg=.0268 per mile driven .
    D2 .624 per gal/49 mpg= .01273 per mile driven.

    So
    RUG taxation is 104% higher than diesel per mile driven
    PUG taxation is 110.5% higher than diesel per mile driven

    So the bad news? D2 is already too high !!!! .... but you all already knew that !!!

    So any of you CPA types who have fuel stations as clients can chime in here for the current 411.

    So keep in mind a "cracker jack" (multiple) station operator might make .10-.12 cents per gal or 4-5% of the sales price (per gal). So as you can see, the GOVERNMENTS make EASILY 5 x that !!??
  • longo2longo2 Posts: 347
    "So who benefits most from keeping diesel passenger cars off US highways? The Saudis and the oil companies, Federal and State Government. Follow the money, it’s not a difficult trail, bread crumbs all over the place."

    I think if you follow the biggest trail of crumbs it would lead you to another culprit in this scam...the Big Three (now the Big One)
    If they actually built a great little car that delivered outstanding mpg's in the 60's and 70's who would ever trade it off?

    No, the car companies have been lying to the public and the politicians for years about mpg's, and - by proxy - the paid Car Hacks that wouldn't mention the VW Jetta TDI mpg if they had a dip stick shoved up their nose.

    Good mpg's give the car company CEO's nightmares as they squirm around with lame excuses every time the subject comes up.
    They don't want to build them, and have a legal and PR dept. out front to filibuster anyone who tries to make them provide an honest plan to solve the consumers concerns.

    Chrysler and GM CEO's came up with the bright idea that 2 new models would save their companies and outrageous bonuses.. resurrecting the Dodge Charger and the Camero!

    Now, it seems their newest scam/plan is to roll out a high tech, high price, high maintenance electric, that only the Hollywood Celebrities in California can afford, then they can point to another myth of their own creation....."see, we told you, no one wants to buy one!

    (BTW those grinning Celebrities are probably driving PR dept. Freebees)

    jkinzel rightly pins the tail on the Govt., and the Oil Companies, but the U.S. car builders are just as guilty, sneaky, and cunning, in keeping the brainwashed public driving The Guzzlers.
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