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VW Jetta TDI

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Comments

  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,407
    I don't think the gas Jetta is anywhere near $7,000 less than the diesel when comparably equiped.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    Did you check the 2009 jetta diesel price on Ebay, it is going for as much as $25800, and still climbing, the bet is not closed yet. the 09 Jetta SE 2.5 turbo is sold for $19000. At this time of this writing no dealer can confirm that he will get you the car by December, because all orders have been taking. That is why a lot of dealer on Ebay they are going to start charging the idiots arm and leg for a car that will be redesigned next year.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,487
    Truly. The current diesel difference is more like 2,000 dollars. When you add in the DSG (1,000) then sure it does start to climb. My current understanding is the diesel currently is the SE trim level, another is a Loyal Edition, then Sport Wagon.

    Of course when you really look at it, one could be comparing different TRIM levels. So for example on a Honda Civic (GASSER) , you literally can go from mild to wild

    DX, LX, EX, EXL, GX, Hybrid, Mugen, Si.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    As I stated before, I am comparing Jetta SE gasoline to Jetta SE diesel with automatic transmission. $19000 versus $24650 for diesel this is if you can find one at this price, good luck.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,487
    OK, you were very clear the FIRST time.

    Let me cite the Edmunds.com difference between

    SE gasser manual $19,920

    vs SE TDI manual $21,990

    (21,990-19,920=)

    This would be $2,070

    Even SE auto= 21,020

    TDI auto (SE equivalent)= 23,090

    Also this would be $2,070

    Adding to possible confusion, further my understanding is they are using terms like manual, automatic, AM automatic manual, AKA DSG. So since the TDI does NOT come with an automatic (even as it says it does) , but an automatic manual aka DSG...... you need to find the SE WITH a automatic manual, AKA DSG for the apples to apples comparison.
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    Did you check the 2009 jetta diesel price on Ebay, it is going for as much as $25800, and still climbing, the bet is not closed yet. the 09 Jetta SE 2.5 turbo is sold for $19000. At this time of this writing no dealer can confirm that he will get you the car by December, because all orders have been taking. That is why a lot of dealer on Ebay they are going to start charging the idiots arm and leg for a car that will be redesigned next year.

    This argument, if not hypocritical, is at least hollow since Honda, Toyota and others have engaged in this same practice of (in your words) “charging the idiots arm and leg for a car” with special or scarce availability. I doubt it will be any different when, or if, Honda diesels hit the market.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    Is that your argument about the price hick? Copying information from automotive magazine; does not proof anything, I am bringing you the reality. Go to your VW dealer ask for the price, or check the ones that are selling on Ebay. Automatic and manual transmission option is only $1000. that is not the problem. The problem is demand and supply. The first customers will pay a big price. Another thing that buyers are not thinking about it, is the price difference between the gasoline fuel and diesel fuel; just during the summer the difference is close to $1, imagine when it’s winter time and there is a lot of demand on diesel for heating, the gap will widen and the diesel won’t be making any sense to buy it from the first place. Don’t get me wrong, I love diesel I have been driving it for years, until I came to USA from Europe. But over there is cheaper than gasoline; which make sense to buy a diesel. But over here in USA the diesel is taxed higher than the gasoline, and refineries ship the diesel over to Europe because they make more money selling it over there, especially with the Dollar is so weak that the profit they make is huge. This situation alone create a price hick inside the US. Remember, I am here in this forum just helping people to see things that are not always explained clearly. And in the process I learn also from others, from their experience. There is no context to win here except exchanging ideas and advices. God bless.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,487
    No that is not the argument about the price hike. Again if you take the position that things are unprove able, why is anything you say prove able? What you or I ultimately pay is the real proof. I have been to the VW dealer and asked the current prices. Right now, unless you are willing to pay the premiums, now is NOT the time to buy and for a list of reasons. Same was true when Prius' sold for 5,000 and up OVER MSRP!!?? Indeed the prices for Honda Civics (gassers) etc (small cars) has literally skyrocketed . On the other hand, if you have a Civic/TDI, etc., to sell, NOW is the time to sell.

    In so far as the diesel vs gas prices, like model price per mile driven is the ultimate tie breaker Against the03 VW gasser 1.8T vs TDI , just do the math for 29 mg vs 49 mpg. Absolute a no brainer! I do the math EVERY fill up between a 04 Civic gasser 38-42 mpg and 03 VW TDI 48-52 mpg and at current prices, the price per mile driven is and has been consistently cheaper for the TDI.

    From an over all standards (27 mog) and defacto (22 mpg) point of view, the majority pay similar price per mile driven as Europe. Indeed the US small car population (higher fuel mileage) is less than 25%. This means that 75 % of cars get less mpg.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    Read this Post #1916. clear comparaison between diesel and gas....
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,487
    There is nothing like skirting the issues, I have presented. But the unanswered/unacknowledged posts about yours msg #1916 are probably the real issues here. So in effect, I have done the homework and the diesel is cheaper to run that the gasser. You can look over my past posts to see your hypothetical situations (but indeed good examples) does not match past realities, Indeed not even today's reality:

    Corner store

    Rug $4.49 /39 mpg (Honda Civic) =$.115 cents per mile driven,

    D2= $4.99/49 mpg= $.102cents

    D2 obviously costs $.50 cents more.

    RUG costs 13% more per mile driven.

    So if I ran a 03 VW 1.8T with the cheaper Rug @ 29 mpg= .155 cents per mile driven, which would be 52% more per mile driven. Like models as you can see, cost 52% more per mile driven !!

    Evidently you are not doing the very math that YOU advocate others do. :lemon: This is YOUR issue, not mine.

    As you can see, I have done the math. (that you advocate)
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    during the summer the difference is close to $1

    Over the last year it has not been over 50 cent difference between gas and diesel in California. It would have to be a lot more than that. You mentioned the price of a VW TDI on eBay. That can be a good indicator of what cars will bring that are in big demand. If you can get a deal below MSRP on a new VW TDI you will not lose money when you go to sell it. Something you have not addressed. Unleaded gasoline is far from consistent in the USA. It can have all kinds of designer additives including the dreaded ETHANOL. Some of those such as ethanol take away mileage. Diesel is much better controlled. It is unlikely you will get a big variation in mileage. The ONLY way to get away from the crappy gas sold in California is to own a diesel vehicle. When gas is $4 per gallon and diesel is $8 per gallon it will no longer be a big advantage. Until then your calculations are not realistic. Or based on sound principles. I am not sure what turned you off on diesel. The two diesels I have owned in the last 3 years were great.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,487
    I inadvertantly left off the PUG calculation @ $4.69/ 29 mpg= $.16.2 per mile driven

    So if I ran the 1.8t that would be .162-.102= 59% more. The first calculation using Rug is actually for the VW 2.0.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    When given a choice car buyers will likely pick the VW TDI over any Japanese car.

    image

    Do you see any Japanese car in the top ten where a choice is offered? Me neither. The US market is big. Just not indicative of what car buyers want. We only get the dregs dribbled to US.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    Now that VW has jumped through all the hoops that CARB has put in their path, it will be interesting to see if VW can meet the demand for their diesel cars. And with their dealers coming out of hard times will they blow with gouging the public. My dealer Drew VW in San Diego told me they were selling the TDis at MSRP. They expect both the Jetta and Sportwagon the end of August. They are taking special orders and expect delivery in 90 days. So you can get a VW Jetta TDI just the way you want it. Try that with Toyota or Honda.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    Sorry to prove you’re wrong again, the financial data on that link just prove what I said before. In 2006 VW lost 160 billion euros, today they are achieving 3.43 billions euro. Do you see what I see? How long will it take for VW to make up for the lost money? Have you been investing money on the market or you just read the headlines? Another thing that you do not know about how VW achieved the profit of 3.43 billions euro? By cutting cost, cutting work force, and cutting all overheads including assets, also they were helped in this quarter by couple newly redesigned cars like the Passat, Audi A4…Now you know where the 3.43 billions euros is coming from!! I guess I rest my case here, you’re talking to someday that is in the market everyday buying and selling stocks, we do not invest our money based on the headlines; we do market analysis of all the details about specific stock. No offense, but try next time to do your homework before bidding on stock or you’ll lose big time.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    With all respect in your calculation is missing a major component, that couple people brought to the picture in this kind of comparison; (How many mile the car will be driven??) the calculation has to be based on the (12000 miles) that average people cumulate on there cars yearly. And you did not mention the premium you’ll pay to get the car, and I will not include the resale value because that is based on speculation, nobody knows what the value of your car will be 2 years from now, specially at this time, when every manufacturer is trying to come up with the best hybrid on the market so they can save themselves from bankruptcy.
    I am going to be generous this time and make only $0.80 difference between the gas and diesel. And I will compare the Jetta diesel to the best car in US Honda Accord. Also I will assume both car do more highway driving.
    1- For the Accord the EPA is 22 city / 32 hway
    2- For the Jetta Diesel the EPA is 29 cty / 40 hway. (I will use the 44 MPG hway)
    3- Yearly cost for Accord based on (12,000 miles and $4/gal for gas) is ($1500)
    4- Yearly cost for Jetta Diesel based on (12,000 miles and $4.80/gal for Diesel) is ($1309)
    5- The yearly difference between the Gas and Diesel is ($191)
    If you keep the Jetta diesel for 10 years you’ll accomplish a saving of ($1910) over what Honda Accord owner will accomplish. Even if we base this calculation on (24000) miles the difference is only ($382) per year, if you paid premium of just $3000 over MSRP it will take 7.8 years before you start making any saving. There you have it, and I rest my case no more arguing about this issue.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,487
    Rest your case? The facts either confuse you, nor support your assertions and/or both!! Even the lowest priced Accord costs the same as the VW TDI! When you factor in the lower fue mpg of the Accord, you lose again! Indeed you start to win at the first tank full with the TDI !!!!!!

    I would have gotten the Accord over the Civic, if the numbers were as you say. They were not even close, not then or now. You STILL refuse to do the numbers as you advocate others doing. Your SWAGS do not even come close to your numbers, which is probably why you refuse to do them.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,225
    I am going to be generous this time and make only $0.80 difference

    Generous? That's currently the largest spread between RUG and ULSD on a location-to-location basis (research nationwide fuel prices...flyingj.com is a good source for real-time pricing). The average is closer to $.50 difference. Does this make a big difference? Not really but it makes me question the logic of your comparision.

    if you paid premium of just $3000 over MSRP

    I think this qualifies as a dumb move regardless. A few knuckleheads willing to pay a premium over MSRP does not a trend make. If you're going to assume everone will have to pay such a premium, then I will assume the ridiculously (and far more historically correct) resale value on the TDI should be assumed. Both are stastically incorrect. There are suckers born every minute. Ask the dolts that paid MSRP for a new Tundra a year or so ago......

    But either way, these current TDI's bring a lot more to the table than the previous two generations. I paid around $15,000 for mine back in '00, averaged 47mpg on cheaper diesel, put 180k basically trouble-free miles, and got $9,000 for it last year. Which is why I'm currently pumping gas into my truck. Even at 44mpg.....I can't justify the cost of ANY decent 2nd vehicle by cost alone. It will be a luxury to have an extra vehicle for commuting so it better be a good one.
  • malmouzamalmouza Posts: 141
    Please do not mislead people, Taking you’re example of FlyingJ which is the cheapest gas station in the country, and not everybody lives next to this gas station, here’s the link of today’s price of Diesel and Gas the difference is more than $1. Gas ($3.69) vs diesel ($4.71) http://www.pennsylvaniagasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=D there you have it.
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