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Hybrid Gas Mileage Good? Bad? As Expected?

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Comments

  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    "U.S. drivers use about 7.9 billion gallons of fuel each year to run their air-conditioners, which draw power from the engine."
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    That is an incredible statistic!! I've always read that using the AC is better than keeping the windows open at speed. As I mentioned previously, we easily achieved 51.3 with the Prius on the highway. Not too many cars can keep you cool and get 51.3 at close to 70!!! Prius...gotta love it!!!
  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    "U.S. drivers use about 7.9 billion gallons of fuel each year to run their air-conditioners, which draw power from the engine."

    Yeah, but we're, like, really hot see. ;)
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,896
    "U.S. drivers use about 7.9 billion gallons of fuel each year to run their air-conditioners, which draw power from the engine."

    I am sure that is gasoline not diesel that is used. Just another reason to switch to a diesel car. My VW TDI is happy to run the AC without wasting fuel. Oh, and my GMC hybrid with climate control keeps pouring out the cold air with the engine stopped at the stop lights. Does your HCH do that?
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    All cars regardless of gas/hybrid/diesel use additonal fuel for their AC. As Larb said, there is NO free lunch. I'm happy with what I've seen on my sister's Prius. 51.3 MPG @ 68 MPH!!!! Gotta love dat Prius!!!!
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  • mistermemisterme Posts: 407
    "When you turn on the AC at 70 MPH you have to give it considerably more gas to maintain the speed and the AC"

    Cruising @ 70MPH you don't notice if the A/C is on with an HCH in regards to engine load.

    "Diesel is a superior fuel for vehicles without any doubt. No amount of hype can change those FACTS"

    How about diesel car hype?
    Let's look at some facts:
    *Diesel cars have a much shorter life span than gasoline cars. Used car listings are solid proof.
    www.autotrader.com
    *Diesel fuel is considerably more expensive and is harder to find than gasoline.
    Proof is at your local gas station (Which probably doesn't even sell diesel)
    *Diesel cars, particularly VW continues to be plagued by gross failures from fires to steering parts falling off
    http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/08/pf/autos/cr_auto_reliability/
    *Jetta reminds me alot of a '76 Chev Citation
    http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/tw/images/81citation.jpg
    But I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    Gagrice this is not a diesel vs hybrid thread (But you can see I'm glad to filter out the hype).

    I understand there's a few people getting almost 70MPG from their '06 HCH over at that "Green" website.
    Any vehicle that can get over 50MPG is great in my book (Diesel included) but 70MPG is simply fantastic, especially from a gasoline powered car.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,896
    I understand there's a few people getting almost 70MPG from their '06 HCH

    I see someone is getting 52.9 MPG which is good. I am sure you have followed this thread, and the debate is why so many hybrid owners are disappointed in the mileage during the summer and winter. What do you attribute the 10-30% loss in mileage during the extreme heat or extreme cold. I know in Atlanta it is 75 degrees year round so that is not an issue with your driving.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Gagrice:

    You could start by uploading your own FE figures over at GH so we can see your real world FE? Someone complaining about others FE should not mind the rest of us seeing his or hers. So far, all I hear is that your Lexus gave you this, the TDI that, or the Silverado Hybrid hasn’t seen its first tank and its 4 months old, etc …

    You know my hybrids and non-hybrid’s FE to the last mile/ounce as I post them but where is yours so we can see the disappointment tank over tank in your non-hybrids too? If most non-hybrid drivers kept track of their FE tank over tank, they would be ashamed to post their results! If you think a Hybrid not hitting the EPA in the dead of winter or heat of summer is bad, try a Chevrolet Impala, Toyota Tundra, Ford Crown Vic, or Honda Odyssey in a 7 mile commute of downtown stop and go. When you see 10 or less mpg’s tank after tank after tank, you would be glad to own the Prius, HCH, or FEH receiving their paltry 25 - 45 + mpg in that exact same driving scenario and circumstance.

    Finally, a quick look over CR’s Annual Car Buyers Guide issue will show you what the non-hybrid’s are capable of in a stop and go city environment according to CR’s own testing. This is not done in the dead of winter either! The Accord is worth just 16 mpg according to CR’s and I know a few I4 Accord owners in downtown Chicago that wish they could achieve that high a FE this time of year. Remember that the Accord is one of CR’s highest FE rated non-hybrid automobiles available with a 38 mpg highway rating …

    Older report but still relevant: http://autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/article/fuel_efficient_cars_category.html-

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,896
    When you see 10 or less mpg’s tank after tank after tank, you would be glad to own the Prius or HCH receiving their paltry 30 - 45 mpg in those exact same driving circumstances.

    I have never owned a truck that got 10 MPG or less. My Suburban was a 13-14 MPG around town rig. It would get 17 MPG on the highway. My new hybrid had 670 miles when I filled it yesterday. Didn't bother to figure the mileage. Somewhere around 15 MPG. I like driving the truck, just trying to get miles on the VW TDI to sell it. I have the VW on a spreadsheet. After 6123 miles the Passat is at 27.96 MPG. Most of that is trips shorter than 3 miles.

    Now back to the point at hand. You can bet your bottom dollar if I bought a Prius and it only got 35 MPG when it has an EPA of 55 MPG combined, I would be upset. If a car cannot get close to EPA with normal driving. NO hypermiler technics. It is not something I would be interested in. That is why I bought the Passat. It gets what it is advertised to get. It gets better in town than I expected.

    I read from hybrid owners every excuse under the sun why they are not getting EPA. That is fine for them. I would not be happy. The truth is and I think you have proven it to yourself and surely to me. If mileage is a big concern in your driving, you can get great mileage out of most anything you drive. I don't put enough miles on my vehicles to worry about the fuel I use. Insuring one vehicle costs more than gas for all 4 cars in a year.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Gagrice:

    My Suburban was a 13-14 MPG around town rig. It would get 17 MPG on the highway.

    Well I’ll be, you received 13 - 14 mpg around town in the suburban but CR’s received just 16 in a 4cyl. Accord? CR’s says an 04 Suburban is worth just 9 around town in good temps! Where are all those Chevrolet Suburban drivers receiving 9 mpg in a truck rated for 15/20 per the EPA? By god those Chevrolet Suburban Owners should be pissed if they are receiving ~ ½ THE EPA ESTIMATES! Those same individuals driving Suburban’s would be proud to receive better then 3/4 the EPA Estimates in a Prius II I would have to imagine? What are you saying Gary, ~ ½ the EPA estimate in a Chevrolet Suburban is better then > then 3/4 the EPA estimate in a Prius II?

    My new hybrid had 670 miles when I filled it yesterday. Didn't bother to figure the mileage. Somewhere around 15 MPG.

    Gagrice, you own a VW TDI that you have a spreadsheet for down to the last ounce of fuel and miles traveled but your brand new Hybrid Silverado wasn’t worth taking the 670 miles - previous tanks fill up odo reading divided by number of gallons filled? You can do better then guessing around 15 mpg from a truck that should be worth 18/21? That is 26% below the EPA combined. What is a matter with your Truck?

    Now back to the point at hand. You can bet your bottom dollar if I bought a Prius and it only got 35 MPG when it has an EPA of 55 MPG combined

    Would you care to tell me who you know that is receiving just 35 mpg in their Prius II? Can you name these individuals by name please. I can name plenty of Prius II drivers receiving 45, 50, 55, and even 60 + year round on a first name basis.

    That is why I bought the Passat. It gets what it is advertised to get. It gets better in town than I expected.

    That is why I owned an Insight. It received better then what it was advertised to receive. That is why every time I have driven a Prius II it has received much better then what it was advertised to receive. It is also the same with the FEH and HCH-I’s I have driven. I guess your FE in the Passat stinks and you should be taking it back into the dealer when all you can receive is EPA city estimates. Its combined is somewhere in the low to mid 30’s, right? 27 from a low to mid 30’s TDI is pretty poor. What is a matter with your TDI anyway? I receive more then that in the Acura MDX when driving back from the gas station which is ~ 1.5 miles away and lower in elevation by ~ 20’!

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • I've been following the A/C on fuel cost comments. On the highway, if the A/C is off, one would tend to open the window(s). This causes additional drag, which means additional fuel used. With today's small efficient compressors one must wonder if it isn't more costly (in fuel) to drive on the highway with the windows open rather than use the A/C.

    More on topic: Our 05 Prius gets about what I expected given that we have not changed how we drive. The A/C is on nearly all the time and freeway speeds are 75 or so. We keep up with local and freeway traffic and don't go slow trying to save fuel. For the first 8000 miles, the mpg is 44.5.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Your arguments are quite compelling. When you look at percentages it appears that SUVs are off on their EPA claims than smaller vehicles. Funny how the media hasn't picked up on that. If/When I own a Prius I am quite certain I'll be happy with high 40's. As I mentioned numerous times, I can easily get low 40's driving a constant 80 MPH. Try doing that in a Suburban!! LOL
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,896
    Would you care to tell me who you know that is receiving just 35 mpg in their Prius II?

    You should be directing your anger & frustration at the 50+ Prius II owners on GH that are getting 20-35% below EPA. I thought that was some kind of hypermiler club. Don't you take away their driving privelege when they drop 10% below EPA? If you think the Passat mileage stinks at less than 10% under EPA. How do you feel about the average Prius owner getting 13% below EPA? In fact I only see 6% of 393 Prius II owners getting EPA on GH. If that is not an indictment on the HSD technology, what would be in your opinion?

    PS
    I have the mileage info in the GMC glove box. Just have not put it on the spreadsheet. The Passat was bought to see if I liked diesel cars, and make a couple grand on someone that cannot wait until the price is right. To me handling and utility are way ahead of mileage on the list. The Passat fills that hand with aces. Maybe someday Honda & Toyota will build a car that handles on a par with their reliability. Until then I'll take handling.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,896
    CR’s says an 04 Suburban is worth just 9 around town in good temps!

    What's your point? That is 64% of the 14 MPG EPA city rating. CR also got 35 MPG on the Prius II in town. That is only 58% of the EPA city rating. I don't think people buy Suburbans to save on gas. They buy them to haul lots of people and stuff. I miss my Suburban, should have just kept it.
  • mistermemisterme Posts: 407
    "I know in Atlanta it is 75 degrees year round so that is not an issue with your driving"

    This goes along the same line as other things that are said "to be known".

    Atlanta summers near 100 degrees and near 100% humidity summer days, 80 degree nights.
    Atlanta winters around 50 degrees day and below freezing at night.

    Although this isn't as extreme as our Northern neighbors it's not Florida either. I still exceed 60MPG and +800 mile tanks in my '04 HCH this winter, well above what I expected.
    Half my commute is 5:00PM rush hour, other half is 3:00AM cold early morning.

    When I bought my car with its EPA estimate...coming from a Dodge that only averaged 16-17MPG I'd have been happy with just 40MPG. I really didn't expect the full EPA figures. (47/49 I think it was)
    Holy cow I had no idea what the car would do.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Gagrice:

    You should be directing your anger & frustration at the 50+ Prius II owners on GH that are getting 20-35% below EPA.

    By your posts, it appears you are the one unhappy, not the hundreds averaging 48 mpg year round in their Prius II’s which is 87% of EPA combined. Your TDI is averaging just 87% of EPA combined. Are you angry and frustrated that you are only receiving 26.xx mpg in your TDI or would you rather receive 48 in a Prius II? I think everybody would rather receive 48 mpg instead of 26.x mpg, wouldn’t you?

    I thought that was some kind of hypermiler club.

    Why would you think that? The only thing I see here is your anti-hybrid whine?

    In fact I only see 6% of 393 Prius II owners getting EPA on GH. If that is not an indictment on the HSD technology, what would be in your opinion?

    Since all Prius II owners posting tanks over at GH are averaging 48 mpg overall, what does that say for anything you own? You just hit 87% of EPA combined in your TDI and that is your best showing …

    To me handling and utility are way ahead of mileage on the list.

    I can understand utility but handling? Did you ever take your Suburban into a fast sweeper at .75G’s? If so, you must have spent a lot of time upside down on the roof? I would not call a Chevrolet Suburban or Silverado good handlers by any stretch … And about that Passat? It appears to me that both the Civic and Accord break loose a bit beyond the Passat. I can’t say that for the Prius II but it is averaging almost 2X’s the FE of your Passat so I do not think those that own them are taking them into a fast sweepers at anywhere near their limits of adhesion given they really do not care about such things …

    http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~kpfleger/auto/handling.html

    What's your point?

    What is yours? You are the one complaining about the Prius II when you used to own a Suburban that CR’s hit just 13 mpg overall or 74% of the EPA combined. Your Silverado is receiving ~ 77% of the EPA combined. This compares to CR’s Prius II receiving 80% of its EPA combined. Are you just as active in the Chevrolet Suburban and Silverado forums telling them there automobiles suck because they receive a smaller % of EPA then Prius II owners? I am sure Suburban and Silverado owners are not only always hauling lots of people and stuff but also love paying ~ $100.00 a week for gas vs. the Prius II’s ~ $30.00 over the same distance using CR’s FE figures!

    I sure am glad those that had a choice between the Prius II and the Suburban chose the Prius II for all our sakes ;)

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Wayne--- Your points are exactly my sentiments as well. As usual, your responses are spot on and accurate. It makes no sense to complain about a car that gets TWICE the mileage as the current car one is driving. Sour grapes?? :confuse: If I had your driving techniques where you can achieve high 40's in an Accord, I may just have to rethink my purchase! I seem to be going around in circles now having my eye on the new RAV4. I appreciate your contributions to this forum.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,896
    Are you angry and frustrated that you are only receiving 26.xx mpg in your TDI

    Not even a little bit.

    would you rather receive 48 in a Prius II?

    No, I would rather receive 48 MPG in a VW Beetle TDI. Which I will probably buy when I sell the Passat. When the Beetle has 7500 miles and I sell it who knows what I will buy. Maybe by that time some company will build a plugin hybrid or a series hybrid. Maybe Honda will bring their diesel to America for me to try.

    I can understand utility but handling?

    You don't sound like you understand that the Suburban & Silverado are for utility. The Passat is for handling. I don't suppose you would want to take a 100 mile trip on the back roads of our mountains with your Accord against the Passat. If you think it handles so well.

    excerpts from Edmund's
    Honda Accord cons:
    Tepid handling, brakes should be more powerful

    Passat:
    Better handling dynamics than most sedans in its class,

    Good brakes and handling trump high mileage any day of the week for me.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    This past weekend, for the first time in almost 90 days, I took my 2004 HCH onto a FREEWAY !!! (drama !!!)

    My normal daily commute is all city streets, and I have learned all the "below 50 MPH" sweet spots and have used all the techniques I know and have managed to keep my last three tanks above 50 MPG.

    This latest tank was at 300 miles and sitting at 51.0 MPG when my two kiddos and I entered the freeway Saturday morning for a 20 mile trip to see Narnia on the biggest movie screen in the Southwest USA.

    I was very worried that highway speeds were going to deflate my MPG, and although the car is rated 51 MPG on the hwy, that is with the EPA test which never exceeds 60 MPH in that portion of the test. I was getting on a freeway which topped out at 65 MPH, and many people drive 75 on it.

    Lucky for me, this was 7:45 AM Saturday, so the freeways in Phoenix were pretty abandoned compared to later in the day. I was able to mostly stay out of people's way, keeping my speed fluctuating between 50 and 60 MPH most of the time.

    By the time I got to the movie theater, my tank had moved up to 51.8 MPG !! I had gained .8 MPG on a 20 mile highway jaunt !! The trip back was down a different freeway in a later part of the day, and I expected a lot more people and a lot more speeders, but it turned out there were a couple of minor delays and the same speeds as the first leg were possible, so I turned into my driveway still sitting at 51.8 MPG.

    I'm going to be a little less worried about freeway travel next time !!! Love my HCH !! :shades:
  • I don't quite understand why in the world a person would compare mileage on a suburban and a Toyota Speck. Of course the Suburban burns more gas, it's 5x the vehicle of the Toyota.
    Oh, and you won't care how much gas you've burn when you are driving your Toyota Speck down the freeway, get in a wreck, and all dead. Oh, and the guy in the Suburban in the same wreck it telling all of his friends about the poor guy in a Toyota Speck who died when then both rear-ended the car in front on them.
    Oh, and for the Eco-freaks, most half-ton Suburbans burn E85, while your Toyota still burns hated fossil fuels.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    The Suburban gets better mileage than a Corolla. Especially when half its life is on the mechanic's lift. Oh... the Toyota can use E85 fuel.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    What's really inname is a claim the Suburban is 5x the vehicle of the Toyota. That's really dunb. And ingorunt.

    BTW - the extra mass actually works AGAINST the driver/passengers of a Suburban when hitting an immobile object like a tree or bridge abutment. The body/frame of the vehicle must absorb much more kinetic energy (since the vehicle has more mass) and inevitably, some of this extra energy is transferred to the occupants. The extra mass is only a benefit in car/car collisions.

    Not to mention the fact that the Toyota Speck is much more nimble and better stopping so is more likely to avoid the accident (or reduce the impact velocities) compared to the Suburban. Not to mention the much lower risk of rollover for the Speck compared to the Suburban.

    And I'm just curious - I can't seem to find out any specs on the Speck ( :) ) on either Toyota's web-site or here at Edmunds. Is that a new model?
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Haven't you heard?? It's a new model only available in certain parts of the US. Quite a vehicle!!!
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "It's a new model only available in certain parts of the US. Quite a vehicle!!!"

    I'll bet. Since the Suburban is 5x the Speck, I'm guessing the Speck is about 4' long, 2' wide, 18" tall, seats two and weighs less than 1000 lbs. Quite a vehicle alright!
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Absolutely!!! I also understand that there will be a $4,000 tax credit for all 2006 Specks, so I have my order in!! ;)
  • warnerwarner Posts: 196
    THANK YOU! I'm happy to hear that someone didn't radically change their driving style to squeeze a few extra mpg out of their car. It's fine for people to play those MPG games, as long as they're not making everyone else's drive miserable by being in the way. I say to the hyper-milers, "Go get your record mileage on the weekend when the roads are not congested, but please don't make my commute miserable so you can save a nickel each day on gas." I am a fairly aggressive driver though....so maybe I have my own issues, too. But I promise that I won't get in anyone's way or slow them down if they want to go faster than me in the left lane. (I'm not a closet cop...I'll let them slow people down who are going too fast).

    Okay...I'm done venting....back to EPA stuff
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    quote warner-"but please don't make my commute miserable so you can save a nickel each day on gas."-end quote

    I do feel sorry for you if passing a slow car can "make your commute miserable."

    We ALL need to slow down. It's to the point of ridiculous to race up to the next red light - STOP, then RACE to the next red light - STOP, repeat all day. That's SO WASTEFUL and people do it completely by habit and don't even know any better.

    If we all slowed down and saved a nickel on gas a day, that $12,500,000 saved every day. Sounds good to me....:D
  • warnerwarner Posts: 196
    quote warner-"but please don't make my commute miserable so you can save a nickel each day on gas."-end quote

    I do feel sorry for you if passing a slow car can "make your commute miserable."



    Assuming I have the OPTION to pass a slow car, I'm not miserable and couldn't care less how slow someone else wants to go. I thought I made that part clear.

    We ALL need to slow down. It's to the point of ridiculous to race up to the next red light - STOP, then RACE to the next red light - STOP, repeat all day. That's SO WASTEFUL and people do it completely by habit and don't even know any better.


    Umm....I'm not sure about this but I don't think we ALL need to do anything that one specific group decides that we need to do. I'm not sure where you live, but where I live we are not under communist rule, and that's part of the deal...we can make choices. I don't ask that Hyper-milers drive faster just because I like to, I just ask that they not prevent me from driving the way that I like to. I will afford them the same respect. One person's rights end where another's begins. I drive a 2006 Civic and I'm not some crazy maniac (I just traded my 2004 in on on 2006 and averaged 35mpg over the 41,000 miles that I put on the '04), but I do like to move things along. I'm in the Chicago area and my family and I are always fairly busy. I'm willing to pay that extra nickel a day to save myself a half hour of driving. If someone else is not willing to do that, I'm FINE with that as long as they don't prevent me from doing that. I'm all for peace here, my friend. :)

    Warner
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Keeping politics and communism out of it, what I said was that "WE ALL SHOULD DO THAT FOR THE GOOD OF US ALL" and that will not be any different regardless of what type of government is running things.

    If you are one of the people driving too fast, you DO need to slow down, for the sake of all of us. Driving like that causes overconsumption (driving up gas prices) and causes more wrecks (rear ends) which drives up car insurance rates, and accidents cause more hospital trips (which raises medical insurance rates). Nothing good comes from driving too fast, but a LOT of good can come from hypermiling.

    It's called "personal sacrifice for the good of all." Heard of it?

    No, really, I don't want to come across as too harsh, but all you have to do is sit and think about it a while. Sure, our country is based on independent thought and no one being able to tell anyone else how to live, but there should be common sense limits to that. Drive how you want, but don't criticize hypermilers for doing something that is good for ALL of us.
This discussion has been closed.