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Hybrid Gas Mileage Good? Bad? As Expected?

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  • warnerwarner Posts: 196
    I'm already driving a ULEV. I seriously doubt that my driving habits in this vehicle are affecting overconsumption any more than a hyper milers habits are affecting it. As far as wrecks, I have not had any wrecks since I was a teenager, so I must be doing okay in that respect. You are making assumptions when you accuse me of "driving too fast" as well, don't you think? How far does one need to go to be doing "what's good for all of us"? Why stop with hyper-miling? Why not just walk, ride a bicycle, carpool, or use public transportation? Maybe these hyper-milers really aren't doing enough for the good of us all? My point is that there is a limit to what people can be expected to do. If I drove my civic with the pedal to the floor each time I went somewhere (which I obviously don't), I could NEVER match the same emissions as someone driving a huge gas-guzzling SUV while employing the Hyper-mileage techniques. My point is that it's fine for Hyper-milers to practice their hobby (which is really what it is, if you get right down to it) as long as it doesn't interfere with others around them....just as I can drive the way that I want to as long as it doesn't interfere with those around me, right? I'm hopeful that we can find some common ground here. I don't think that what I'm talking about is unreasonable.

    Warner
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    quote warner-"My point is that it's fine for Hyper-milers to practice their hobby (which is really what it is, if you get right down to it) as long as it doesn't interfere with others around them....just as I can drive the way that I want to as long as it doesn't interfere with those around me, right?"-end quote

    I contend that people driving too fast are doing more harm to more people than someone driving 5 mph below the speed limit in the "right lane=slow lane." Anyone who drives in the style to which I was referring, the "jackrabbit starts at red light only to accomplish wasting gas until I have to stop at the next red light then I shall again rush to the next light," those people are flat wrong and many of them do not even know they are doing something idiotic because no one has ever pointed it out to them.

    quote warner-"You are making assumptions when you accuse me of "driving too fast" as well, don't you think?"-end quote

    I neither assumed anything nor accused you of anything. I said, talking to EVERYONE reading my post "If you are one of the ones driving too fast." Notice the IF, meaning, "if you are reading this and fit this description, my next statement is for you." If not, then not.

    As far a hypermiling being a hobby, it's not a hobby for me at all. It's a "Driving Style" and it has made me see how stupid I was for not doing this my whole life. I no longer worry about getting speeding tickets, and I no longer worry about rear-ending someone, and I no longer worry about how much gasoline I'm wasting, because I'm not wasting any - I'm using as little as required for my commute.

    As far as carpool, bike, bus, etc., I cannot do that because I am a single father of two kids whom I am required to deliver to school and retrieve each afternoon. They are out of district boundaries because the in-district school is too far out of our way, so they cannot take the school bus. the City Bus would take away valuable sleep from my kids, who already go to bed at 8:00 PM and get up at 6:00 AM.

    I hypermile and conserve fuel and reduce out-of-the-way trips as much as possible, and without a Hybrid, I would be much less effective at all of that.
  • warnerwarner Posts: 196
    I contend that people driving too fast are doing more harm to more people than someone driving 5 mph below the speed limit in the "right lane=slow lane."


    Agreed. I don't drive "too fast", but some people do and you are right - they are a bigger hazard than the slow poke in the right lane. During periods of heavy traffic though, the slow poke in the right lane IS a hazard, whether you want to believe it or not. If there is space for traffic to change lanes to get around him, that's fine; otherwise he/she IS causing a problem with traffic flow.

    Anyone who drives in the style to which I was referring, the "jackrabbit starts at red light only to accomplish wasting gas until I have to stop at the next red light then I shall again rush to the next light," those people are flat wrong and many of them do not even know they are doing something idiotic because no one has ever pointed it out to them.

    Once again, we agree! I never start off fast from a light unless there is a chance to make the next light without stopping (and thereby having to start back up again and waste gas, create extra emissions, and all that bad stuff that you hate). I WILL take off from lights quickly when I know how they are timed (such as in my normal commute to work and home each day) because it saves me time which is more valuable to ME than a few drops of gasoline. I'm sure there are times when this saves me gasoline too though, in not having to stop for every light on the way home.

    quote warner-"You are making assumptions when you accuse me of "driving too fast" as well, don't you think?"-end quote

    I neither assumed anything nor accused you of anything. I said, talking to EVERYONE reading my post "If you are one of the ones driving too fast." Notice the IF, meaning, "if you are reading this and fit this description, my next statement is for you." If not, then not.



    You got me. You neither assumed or accused me of driving too fast. I stand corrected. I'm happy to report that the negative views that you have about people who practice that behavior do not apply to me.

    As far a hypermiling being a hobby, it's not a hobby for me at all. It's a "Driving Style" and it has made me see how stupid I was for not doing this my whole life. I no longer worry about getting speeding tickets, and I no longer worry about rear-ending someone, and I no longer worry about how much gasoline I'm wasting, because I'm not wasting any - I'm using as little as required for my commute.



    Fair enough. To me it would have to be a hobby of sorts, because beyond the little bit of gasoline that I saved by driving that way, the amount of time I'd lose doing it would have to be qualified as a hobby for the amount of time I wasted doing it. What is it really about? Saving gas for the good of the environment? Is that what it is? That's the ONLY reason I could see for someone wanting to buy a hybrid vehicle. There certainly isn't a practical financial way of justifying the purchase of one. If someone wants the latest technology just to have one, that's cool....I buy all kinds of things that I don't need, but I don't then criticize others who don't agree with my decisions, nor do I feel that I'm somehow better or doing more for others because of the decisions that I make. The way that I see it, SOME DAY (and probably sooner than later) the hybrid technology WILL make sense from a financially practical sense, but it just doesn't today. I think we will ALL own hybrids (in some sense of the word or another) at some point down the road, but it's just not "ready" yet. I equate this to any new technology, like voice-over-ip or anything that had a time when it was really whiz-bang cool but just not practical. That's just my opinion.


    As far as carpool, bike, bus, etc., I cannot do that because I am a single father of two kids whom I am required to deliver to school and retrieve each afternoon. They are out of district boundaries because the in-district school is too far out of our way, so they cannot take the school bus. the City Bus would take away valuable sleep from my kids, who already go to bed at 8:00 PM and get up at 6:00 AM.


    That makes sense. I have 3 young children myself (12 and under) and although I'm not a single dad, my wife doesn't drive so it's almost WORSE because I generally have to drive her home from work (she takes public transportation to work on days that she can't ride with me - it's on my way to work to drop her off). I wasn't necessarily talking about you specifically (just as you weren't talking about me specifically when you spoke of people who drive too fast), but hyper-milers whose sole reason for doing so is to help with the environment-related issues. Surely SOME of them have a situation which would allow them to walk, bike, carpool, or use public transportation, don't you think? My point was (and I believe that you understood it) that people who claim to be better than others who don't follow their practices had better be ready for their own practices to be scrutinized.

    I hypermile and conserve fuel and reduce out-of-the-way trips as much as possible, and without a Hybrid, I would be much less effective at all of that.

    Once again, you'll get no argument from me about your personal choices. I think it's really cool that people want to see how far they can push the envelope; whatever the envelope might be. My ONLY gripe is when they feel their "cause" is greater or somehow more important than others around them.

    Warner
  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    I contend that people driving too fast are doing more harm to more people than someone driving 5 mph below the speed limit in the "right lane=slow lane." Anyone who drives in the style to which I was referring, the "jackrabbit starts at red light only to accomplish wasting gas until I have to stop at the next red light then I shall again rush to the next light," those people are flat wrong and many of them do not even know they are doing something idiotic because no one has ever pointed it out to them.

    Who are you to decide that someone can't do this? Maybe they enjoy the rush of acceleration. You don't like that they are consuming more gas than you, but it's their gas to use. You personally value the decreased gas consumption over spirited driving, but that's your decision. Then you've wrapped your decision in a "I'm saving the world" philosophy to justify wanting to impose your beliefs on others. But I'm sorry, driving like a grandmother is not going to save the world, or even the US.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I never impede traffic for "very long" when I rarely get into that situation. I live in Phoenix, and very few of the roads ever make it to "one lane." In two or three lane situations, I am constantly scanning my rearview mirror to make sure I stay out of people's paths if I see them zooming up behind me.

    When I do get stuck in a one lane situation, I do all I can to make it easy on anyone behind me who is urging me to speed up. I have even gone as far as turning in to an empty parking lot to allow a line of cars to go around me when I had no other options besides speeding up. But that's only happened a small handful of times.

    There is a little one lane stretch about 3/4 a mile in length that goes around a resort where the speed limit is 25 MPH, and I get on that fairly frequently. I usually hold 25 MPH, and I can tell it irritates some of the locals who use that road a lot and OBVIOUSLY SPEED THEIR TAILS OFF.

    I'm not going to be forced into a speeding ticket because of other people who might want to give the local government their hard earned money, REGARDLESS of what car I'm driving. Me, I'd rather spend mine on my children. :shades:
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    quote mirth-"Who are you to decide that someone can't do this?"-end quote

    I can't "decide" for anyone, and I usually can't tell them how stupid it is personally, but I can certainly tell anyone reading this forum how stupid it is. And it is.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Warner:

    You and I both drive in the Chicago area and you are spending a nickel more to save an hour of drive time let alone receive just 35 in an 06 Civic? Not only are your assumptions so far off as to be laughable, your FE is pathetic at best. Thank goodness my PZEV Accord is much more comfortable and I receive much higher FE while driving between 0 and 70 mph on our tollways day in and day out … Even amongst the massive traffic jams at the toll plaza’s we enjoyed all spring, summer, and fall. Must have been all those hypermilers in your way, at the Touhy toll’s daily 5 - 10 mile back up right?

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    quote mirth-"driving like a grandmother is not going to save the world, or even the US."-end quote

    What you state is true right now, only because not enough people drive conservatively.

    Look at these numbers:

    250 million registered passenger trucks and cars and SUVs in the USA. Let's say 150 million of them get driven every day.

    If all of those people slowed down enough to save a nickel's worth of fuel every day, that's $7.5 million saved every day. $225 million saved per month. $2.7 BILLION saved per year.

    That's a lot of money not going to oil companies and/or Saudi Princes.

    Maybe not saving the world, but no one can deny it would be a GOOD thing for us all.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    I happen to agree with you, but let's face it. The majority of drivers today drive faster than say 10-15 years ago. I drive on a 55mph speed limit expressway everyday. The average speed is 75!!! If you drive in the right lane because you want to drive slow, then you end up getting caught in merge mania. I hate the center lane, so I am almost forced into driving in the left lane. I'll be honest... I drive 75-80 along with everyone else i.e. flow. Believe me,,, I would not mind at all if that flow slowed to 60-65. Unless enforcement gets stricter, people will continue to waste fuel. You have EVERY right to go whatever speed you want, as long as you are not impeding others. I am sure you're an excellent driver.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    quote falcon-"You have EVERY right to go whatever speed you want, as long as you are not impeding others"-end quote

    That begs this question:

    What is the definition of "impeding others?"

    Driving the speed limit or slightly below on a two or three lane "city street" road, regardless of the lane, should not be considered "impeding others."

    Driving EXACTLY the speed limit on a one lane "city street" road should not be considered "impeding others" but a lot of people (mostly habitual speeders) seem to think it IS impeding.

    Driving the speed limit or slightly below on a three or four lane HIGHWAY road or FREEWAY, in the right lane, should NEVER be considered impeding anyone. There are other lanes, if you want to go faster, get thee into them.

    Oh, and here is my FAVORITE Pet Peeve: People who think the HOV lane is the "super fast" lane. If I want to drive 0-5 MPH at or above the speed limit in the HOV lane, I should be able to. But talk about making people mad - WHEW !! People who use the HOV lane for the SUPER FAST lane should be arrested on the spot. They are idiots.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    My definition of impeding may not be what others believe. IMO, impeding is going slower than the speed limit and/or not consistent with the current flow of traffic. Hypermilers make up a fraction of 1% of all drivers. I think the bigger problem are the seniors that are retired that HAVE to drive during rush hour. There ought to be a law that requires anyone over 60 to take their driver's test again.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,681
    What is the definition of "impeding others?"

    My definition of impeding traffic is someone that others change lanes to get around and then move in front of the slower driver. I happen to be in your city at this moment. I just drove my new motor home down from Colorado Springs. I was on Interstate 10 impeding traffic this morning. I was trying to keep my speed under 70 MPH. I was passed by more trucks than you can imagine. They would go around me and pull back into the lane in front of me. I cannot imagine getting on one of your freeways and driving under 65 MPH. You would get run off the road for sure.

    I also see why you are pushing so hard for clean vehicles. I could see the brown haze this morning 30 miles out of Tucson all the way to Phoenix. You air pollution is as bad as the worst Southern CA has to offer.

    PS
    Diesel was less than Premium at a station along Interstate 10 just before Chandler where I turned off the highway. It was $2.359 and regular was $2.229. Your regular is higher than Colorado $2.099, they were charging $2.799 at the same station for diesel. Good thing my vehicle has a 500 mile plus range.
  • warnerwarner Posts: 196
    Hi Warner:

    You and I both drive in the Chicago area and you are spending a nickel more to save an hour of drive time let alone receive just 35 in an 06 Civic? Not only are your assumptions so far off as to be laughable, your FE is pathetic at best. Thank goodness my PZEV Accord is much more comfortable and I receive much higher FE while driving between 0 and 70 mph on our tollways day in and day out … Even amongst the massive traffic jams at the toll plaza’s we enjoyed all spring, summer, and fall. Must have been all those hypermilers in your way, at the Touhy toll’s daily 5 - 10 mile back up right?

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes

    Wayne, I'm happy that you are concerned about the mileage I've been getting (the 35mpg was on my 2004 Civic that I just traded in, by the way). However, I am more than pleased with 35mpg average so don't lose any sleep over my mileage. I have gotten as high as 40mpg on a tank before, but found it wasn't worth it TO ME to adjust my driving style in order to get that extra mileage. Now I'm sure you're going to tell me that if I adjusted it even more, I'd be able to get 60mpg. The truth is, I don't care. I don't care to drive that way, and I won't drive that way. If you want to, that's FINE....no problem. That's your choice, just as it is mine to drive the way that I want to drive and just the way it is for my doctor friend who drives a Hennessey Viper and gets less than 10mpg. We're all doing what we want to do. If you choose to granny drive in the right lane and stay out of the way of those of us who don't care to drive that way, I have no problem with that. Not everyone wants to drive like a "hyper-miler". Get over it.

    Warner
  • warnerwarner Posts: 196
    If all of those people slowed down enough to save a nickel's worth of fuel every day, that's $7.5 million saved every day. $225 million saved per month. $2.7 BILLION saved per year.

    That's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that it would save me $18.25 a year. So, for the cost of a decent pizza each year, I'll drive the way that I feel comfortable, thanks.

    Warner
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,681
    If all of those people slowed down enough to save a nickel's worth of fuel every day, that's $7.5 million saved every day. $225 million saved per month. $2.7 BILLION saved per year.

    If all the people drove ONE mile less each day it would save more than a Nickel. I don't think most Americans are interested in either option or any other money saving plan. We are consumers to the max. What was our trade deficit just announced? $68,000,000,000 I believe. No small part of that was new cars every from overseas. Plus all the parts for those cars. Somehow your nickel a day falls a bit short.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Warner:

    I receive quite a bit more then 35 mpg in an Accord so you don’t have to be concerned with this maximum comfort driver vs. whatever you are driving and the way you were driving it … And about that granny sitting in the right lane while we are all crawling along at 2 mph for an hour. That’s right, the granny in the 92 Chevrolet Cavalier is traveling as fast or faster then your friend in the Viper and in whatever you are in at this time? I guess he bought it to look good because he certainly isn’t driving to fast in the Chicago area as of late … How about you? Are you pretending to do 75 in that bumper to bumper crawl we call the Hillside strangler or the Touhy Toll as of late? Funny how that grandma is kicking your @$$ to her destination! Pre-Open Road Tolling of course ;)

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • warnerwarner Posts: 196
    I don't travel the same way you do, Wayne. I take I90 from Elgin to Arlington Heights and back....most of the time I can do 80mph at least a good portion of the way. My friend who owns the Viper lives in McHenry and drives a few miles back and forth to two different hospitals where he's an ER doctor, so I don't think he is suffering in the same traffic that you are, either.

    Warner
  • mistermemisterme Posts: 407
    warner wrote:
    "I say to the hyper-milers, "Go get your record mileage on the weekend when the roads are not congested, but please don't make my commute miserable so you can save a nickel each day on gas." I am a fairly aggressive driver though....so maybe I have my own issues, too"

    It always amazes me how people don't realize just how much driving style drains the wallet. Take me for example.
    Before my present car I was always aggressive, in fact my last car was a Dodge 4cyl that did around 15-17MPG. How foolish I was to rationalize my driving by thinking that I get there sooner so it all evens out. A car just gets what it gets with little driver influence...right?
    Our Grand Caravan had worse mileage.

    I drive almost 100 miles/day and HAD to find a solution so I bought one of the most fuel efficient autos they make...and learned a good lesson in economics as well.

    I can drive fairly aggressively in my HCH and expect 30's MPG, or drive with the flow and get low 50's or stretch it out and get almost 70MPG (Average per tank)
    That's almost 40MPG difference

    Regarding conventional autos, I can drive the GC fairly aggressively and get 14MPG, drive with the flow and get 19-21MPG or drive more carefully and get up to 28.
    Almost 14MPG difference.

    This is saving more than a nickel each day, in fact it played a major part in paying off the hybrid premium within the first year.

    Driving for efficiency has nothing to do with the proverbial grandma driver.
    Anyone can drive slowly, creating a bottleneck and making drivers angry...just as easily as an aggressive driver creates dangerous situations by mashing the gas, swerving around other speeders and tailgating.
    Driving for efficiency is a skill that can be learned.
    I did low 50's for the first few months of HCH ownership and as my skills developed reached 60's and eventually higher.

    Lately my MPG is low 60's and over the two years never once made a driver angry for slow driving.

    I'm keeping a ton of cash in my pocket, the drive is vastly more pleasant & predictable. I'm no longer a real liability and finincial threat to our family (and others) for agressive driving...I'm enjoying this car far more than any previous auto.

    I don't think anyone who's in the habit of agression could understand what I just wrote with that kind of mindset...I know I couldn't at the time either.

    My hypermiling does cost more time though....about the same as a typical TV commercial break over a 50 mile trip.
    up to 40MPG difference in one vehicle and 14 in another....not a bad trade-off I'd say.
  • While waiting for my Prius to be delivered, I have been practicing my driving habits in my old ('91) Honda Accord. I have come to the conclusion that it pays more to take it easy. Why?

    I am not rushing around as much; besides going the speed limit, I am not pushing it. As a result, I am driving safer. The commute to work is easier now. Although I have to leave earlier, I get to work on time and I am not bothered by traffic. On the way home, when sitting in 5mph traffic, I take my time rather than try to get through the traffic.

    Plus, I am getting better mileage out of my old car than I had been. Previously, I was a jackrabbit who couldn't wait to get to the next stoplight (or freeway exit). Now, with a more relaxed method of driving, I also don't feel that much rushed.

    So when my Prius comes I will be able to drive it and enjoy it. Not only will I save more gas but I will save my nerves, too. :)
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Great Job Looking4 ~~!! Welcome to the sensible side of driving !!! ;)

    Your personal stress level is down, too, you can be sure. :D
This discussion has been closed.