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Legacy GT Limited vs. Acura TSX and TL

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Comments

  • ryanl1ryanl1 Posts: 55
    Interesting use of memory seats,but remember as we age we tend to shrink in height and gain weight and if you happen to have a set position for your wife she'll have a gazillion shoe heights to contend with.
    I'm happy with the power seats on the GT.I actually don't mind if a car doesn't have sunroof/power seats as I consider these small bonuses.My wife was the one who steered me towards getting leather.
    I think you get great service from Burrard because they know you well and I got a very bad salesperson that day.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Did you stay with the standard factory security system on your GT? Have you known of anyone who has upgraded with an aftermarket system? From what I've been told, the factory system does not offer hood protection. Is there a dealer-installed option for that? Thanks.
  • One thing to keep in mind about Subarus is that they aren't built quite as well as most luxury cars. My WRX rattled and squeaked as bad as any car I've every owned. Granted, it probably had a stiffer suspension than the new Legacy GT.

    Also, I had major problems with clutch shudder with my WRX. Hopefully they have that worked out with the Legacy GT.

    If either of these things bother you, you might want to wait a year or so and see how things go on the Subaru message boards. If Subaru is serious about moving up-market, I would think that they would want to address these types of issues.

    Jeff
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The 2005 Legacy is leaps and bounds ahead of any Subaru that preceeded it. Material quality is a lot better than previous generation Legacys, which themselves are a step up from that Impreza.

    In fact, this is why it's now relevant to compare a 2005 Legacy to an Acura. We have a 2002 Legacy and I would not put it in the same class as the new ones.

    As with any version 1.0, it's safer to wait and see, but that's also true with new models from Honda/Acura.

    -juice
  • ryanl1ryanl1 Posts: 55
    So far I've stayed with the factory alarm system.Remember I was the one who was adamant at having an audible alarm and every single car I've owned I put in hood/trunk/glass/impact protection.I've kind of taken a wait and see attitude this time considering all the deaf ears/noise complaints/false triggers.Not sure if there is a dealer option for anything other than perimeter alarm but even if there was I probably wouldn't go thru the dealer anyways.
    Is the TL's alarm system better? Is the stereo on your TL a lot better ?(I didn't consider DVD important) I didn't get a chance to listen to it.
    The GT's stereo is adequate but nothing to shout about.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    FYI: clutch judder issues were fixed in the 03 model year. I believe it was a common problem affecting multiple Japanese care manufacturers who used the same clutch material from a common supplier.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    We losts some posts here, so I'll recap.

    Subaru had some clutch and even tranny claims for 2002 model WRXs, most from abuse.

    They got smart and employed a force-limiting valve on the 2003s, and warranty claims plummeted to virtually zero. I think that pretty much proves it was mis-use, and not a tranny/clutch problem per se.

    Besides, Acura has had far more tranny issues than Subaru, and that's well publicized.

    Any how, the Legacy GT has a new dual mass flywheel and the clutch feels a lot smoother than any other Subie I've sampled. Whether it's reliable or not we won't know for a while because it's unlike any other Subaru.

    -juice
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    The TL's alarm is pretty basic, IMO, just like all other Honda factory alarms. It does offer doors, trunk and hood protection, and auto-relock & re-arm, which is good. And of course, an immobilizer is standard. It's funny that Subaru does NOT include an immobilizer in the 4 cyl Legacy models.

    As for the stereo system, I'm no audiophile but it certainly sounds better than the one in my old CL-S. To my ears, it's about the same as the Bose system in my old '95 Maxima, but I have yet to try DVD-A discs.
  • ryanl1ryanl1 Posts: 55
    Yes a glaring omission in 2.5i with no immobilizer just like accord with no curtain side air bags.
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    My WRX had those problems too. The TSB has taken care of the clutch judder, and after getting the car serviced durring warrenty, the car has been almost rattle free since the warrenty has expired 15K miles ago.
  • deaniedeanie Posts: 172
    WITH 150K ON MY 96 MAXIMA SE, I'VE ENTERTAINED THE IDEA OF A NEW CAR. THE NEWEST MAXIMA, G35 SEDAN, ACURA TL, ACCORD V6, AND NEW LEGACY GT ARE ALL ON MY LIST AND I'VE DRIVEN THEM ALL. THE NEW MAX IS FUGLY, POOR-HANDLING, AND HAS AN UNKNOWN RELIABILITY FUTURE AS THIS IS THE FIRST MAX TO BE BUILT HERE INSTEAD OF JAPAN. THE G35 IS GREAT BUT A LITTLE SMALL ON THE INSIDE (2004 MODEL) FOR MY WIFE AND TWO KIDS - IS THE 2005 MODEL LARGER? THE TL AND ACCORD, BOTH GREAT CARS IN MANY RESPECTS THAT HAVE BEEN WELL-DOCUMENTED ON THESE FORUMS, HAVE ONE SERIOUSLY GLARING AND UNADDRESSED FAULT - POOR BRAKING. CHECK ALL THE MAJOR COMPAROS DONE IN ANY CAR MAG, AND THE ACCORD/TL LAG BEHIND THEIR COMPETITION. IS IT UNDERSPECED BRAKES? LAME-O TIRES? SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHY. IT SEEMES THAT BRAKING FROM 60, 70 OR 80 TO ZERO IN AN ACCORD OR TL YIELDS BRAKE DISTANCES ONE TO THREE CAR LENGTHS LONGER THAN MOST COMPETITORS, AND THAT'S A SERIOUS RISK FOR ANY DRIVER. BESIDES, IF IT'S LAME-O TIRES TO BLAME, YOU GOTTA TACK FOUR NEW TIRES TO THE TL/ACCORD PRICE TO MAKE THEM "NORMAL". NOW THE LEGACY. LIKE THE G35, IT'S A LITTLE TIGHT ON THE INSIDE, AND GETS SAD HWY MPG THAT IS MORE THAN COMPENSATED FOR BY THE ALL WHELL DRIVE AND WHAT WILL LIKELY BE THE BEST CRASH RATING POSSIBLE. IT'S ALSO A NOTCH BELOW IN RELIABILITY THAN G35/TL/ACCORD. SO WHAT DID I CHOOSE? WELL, I FOUND ALL THE ABOVE GENERALLY GREAT CHOICES, BUT ONE FACT STANDS TRUE - THERE IS NOTHING MORE SATISFYING AND FINANCIALLY REWARDING THAN A CAR THAT IS PAID FOR AND RUNS LIKE NEW, AS MY MAXIMA DOES, SO BY WAITING A YEAR OR TWO MORE TO LET ALL THE ABOVE MODELS IMPROVE, AND LET THE SUBIE REVEAL IT'S RELIABILITY STRENGTH OR WEAKNESS, I'LL PUT AWAY ANOTHER $5-10K FOR THAT EVEN BETTER ITERATION OF WHATEVER I CHOOSE TO BUY. I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO REPLY, AS I AM STILL VERY MUCH A CAR GUY DESPITE WHAT MY RATIONALE IMPLIES.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    It would be a whole lot easier for us to respond if you didn't post in ALL CAPS.

    It would also be helpful if you broke your thoughts into paragraphs.

    All caps and no paragraphs is very hard to read. Also all caps suggests shouting (even if that wasn't your intention). :)

    Bob
  • I'm glad that they have fixed the problems with your car. My dealer told me that the retrofit kit for the clutch only temporarily solved the problem, so I never had them perform the replacement.

    It all ended up being a moot point since I sold my WRX 8 months ago and bought a TL.

    Jeff
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    Great car. A friend of mine is looking into purchasing one. Also, on the NVH level and content level, the TL is well ahead of the WRX.

    It sounds like your Subi dealer is mis-informed. It is not a retrofit, but an actual replacement of the clutch and clutch-flywheel (flywheel I believe). Thus not temporary in anyway.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I'm betting that curtain airbags (at least on the V6 models) will be a mid-cycle addition for the Accord. The other likely change would be a tweak to the ugly rear.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Posts: 252
    All caps doesn't bother me, Im going deaf ;-) Paragraphs help the eyes though. 8-)

    Honda's run small front brakes. They can fix that whenever they choose. Why they haven't ?
     
    The Legacy is a bit tight for two kids with car seats, plus all the junk like strollers. It won't leave much room for luggage/packages unless you opt for a roof top carrier. But it is still a great car. If you need more room then the Volvo V70 R is the way to go.

    You can't beat the handling feel of the Legacy at this price point. I don't care what the mags say about the G35, when they have the comparo this year the Legacy will shine.

    As to reliability. The Legacy is typically glued and screwed ;-) right from the factory, so the fit and finish is pretty good. I had a 99 Legacy GT that had a main seal leak fixed under warranty, a minor transmission problem at 65K. I got it fixed and have 92K on the car. Other than that no issues what so ever. No problems with leaks, rattles, brakes, elec. The leather and plastic are still smooth. Trust me the interior on these new ones are a world better.

    Now that you don't have to worry about the Legacy power. You can concentrate on dialing in the handling to your exact demands. The nice thing about the Legacy is that it has great neutral handling that can even be improved. With a few cheap mods you can hang all day in the canyons with any BMW (M3's too). Rear Adj Anti-sway bar, steel braided brake lines, upgrade to STi 4 pots or Stoptech 4-6 pots, new Toyo Proxes or Bridgestone So-3 rubber. The brakes are good from the factory, there were complaintts of spongy feel on older models but that is fixed now. SBB lines always help.

    If you need more power, wait 6 months and a tuner will have something knocking it up to 275-275; Cobb or Vishnu or Prodrive will get something very reliable out there within a year. Check out Teagues on the net.

    Great car, not the cache it deserves but it's gonna get there, but fun nontheless.
  • ryanl1ryanl1 Posts: 55
    Ugly rear? I think you meant BUTT ugly rear ;)The older Legacy though had a FRUMPY face.
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    Honda Breaks - have you seen the new TL's distances for breaking. It is very good. In a compario with the Bremos, it came in first. It beat the G35, Saab, 325i, A4, and others in breaking.

    The Accord is another story, but nothing a pair of Hawk pads can't fix.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article- _id=7785&page_number=1

    "If you need more power, wait 6 months and a tuner will have something knocking it up to 275-275; Cobb or Vishnu or Prodrive will get something very reliable out there within a year. Check out Teagues on the net."

    -Would not be surprised if it is up around 290/290. Heck, Cobb already has a kit to get the WRX over 260 hp to around 270, with just tubing and a reflash.
  • ryanl1ryanl1 Posts: 55
    Totally agree with you.Subaru wasn't even on my comparo list until I saw the 05 GT.When you mention Subaru the image that comes to mind is the Outback or Forester and in recent years the WRX STI.Most people don't know how to react when I tell them I bought a Legacy...until they look at it.
    MB...oohhh,BMW...aaahhhh,Lexus..yesss,Audi..hmmm,VW..coolll,Toyot- a ..good choice,Subaru...huh??

    Only a few people in the know start salivating when they find out.

    Only when Subaru continues to make great cars will they get the recognition that Honda/Toyota gained in the 80's and 90's.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'll re-state, the clutch-flywheel from the Legacy GT has nothing in common with the one in the WRX.

    Considering the engine (EJ257 vs EJ20) is also different, the block design is different (Leg's is semi-closed deck design), and the transmission is entirely new (5EAT vs. 4), you could say the entire powertrain has almost nothing in common.

    It's like comparing the TL to a Civic Si.

    To load that stroller, just choose a wagon!

    -juice
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Posts: 252
    You notice they have 4-Pot Brembos on the TL.
    They should put bigger rotors on all the Honda's, they would be hard to beat.

    Put 4Pot STi's, Brembos, AP's or Stoptech's on a Legacy GT and the TL won't be close.
       
    Also to Saab's defense, they didn't test the Aero which has bigger and better brakes, and better shocks. Saab blew it by not making the Aero 9-3 250HP and upping the 9-5 Aero to 275HP.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Off topic, but since juice mentioned wagon, I saw a Volvo V50 in the Costco parking lot the other day, and as good as the new Legacy/Outback wagons look, the V50 blows them away. I think the V50 may even edge out the Audi A4 Avant as the sexiest wagon.
  • tsytsy Posts: 1,551
    Oooh. I suppose you're entitled to your opinion, but Volvo's aren't exactly know for their 'sexy' looks. ;-). The GT is long, low, athletically sleek, modestly curvaceous, and a little mysterious with the hood scoop. The little Volvo is, well, kinda short and stubby. It's not a bad looking car, and a huge improvement from the box on wheels, but to say it's looks 'blows them away'? I would have to respectfully disagree.

    But then, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    Sorry, I know this is off topic. Just had to comment.

    Come to think of it, the general shape of the Volvo and TSX are kinda similar.

    tom
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Looks are always subjective, but regarding the V50, all I gotta say is you've got to see it in the flesh. It is stubby, but that's part of its appeal. It looks gooooood!

    I also have to disagree about Volvos. IMO, as a group, the Volvo V70 line of wagons are amongst the best-looking.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    V50 does look handsome, but it is a bit on the small side. At least they shaped the back of it nice and square for cargo. And at least Volvo offers a wagon here.

    I sampled the S40 sedan at an event Volvo hosted, and honestly there isn't a single thing the Legacy GT doesn't do better, not one.

    I'd actually compare an S40 to a WRX in terms of size.

    -juice
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Posts: 252
    I agree the V50 is nice looking. It is what Volvo should have come out with at the begining.

    I don't think it has a remote chance in any category versus a Legacy GT though. The GT goes up squarely versus the V70 T5's and V70 R's
  • tasdisrtasdisr Posts: 25
    ------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------
    I know this has probably been asked before. I am probably going to trade my 03 Acura TL- type S in on an 05 Legacy GT ltd sedan sometime soon.
    I had considered a new TL, but price and tranny problems have put me off.
    How do Subaru's stack up quality and reliability wise? Is it as comfortable
    as the Acura on long drives?
    Will I regret making the switch? I am not a fast driver but like the idea of having AWD and knowing that I have the power on tap if needed. I have test driven the GT and it seems to ride as good as my Acura.
    Thanks for any feedback!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    FWIW, the TL offers a good value once you take into consideration all the standard equipment.

    The EJ257 engine has been around only since the WRX STi has, i.e. just over a year. It has been reliable so far.

    To compare long-haul comfort you'd have to ask owners. I've only had these cars for short stretches.

    You'll love the AWD when it rains, snows, or on gravel or sandy surfaces.

    -juice
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    I like the looks of the V50. I saw it in person at the Detroit Auto Show and liked the snub-nosed front. I didn't care so much for the Volvo-shoulder that runs down the side and the oversized tail lights. Overall a very athletic look.

    The V50 offers a lot of nice features I liked, but in the end it seemed a little small and pricey for what one got. I also attended Volvo's S40 promo event and was a little underwhelmed by it's performance (S40, T5, 6MT).

    In two weeks, my dad who just recently purchased a TSX will be out here on vacation. It'll be interesting to hear his opinions on my Legacy GT Ltd wagon.

    Ken
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    I bet your dad will think the GT is faster, smoother, and quieter. Those are my immediate impressions when I drive my OB XT back to back with my wife's TSX.

    Craig
This discussion has been closed.