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Legacy GT Limited vs. Acura TSX and TL

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Comments

  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Three opinions... MT's Lassa, the C&D review, and mine.

    ;-)
  • faceoffkingfaceoffking Member Posts: 9
    According to Motor Trend, the TSX had a 0-60 time of 7.5. Next to the LGT's 5.8 (official), there's not much comparison. That was the only performance comparison figure I could find in Motor Trend but I didn't look very thoroughly.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I was talking about Lassa's, but yes, three. Four if you include mine. :-)

    What about skidpad, slalom, and braking? I do think you have to look at the whole package.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    On some other owners' forums, I've been reading rumors of the October issue of R&T that compares just the GT and TSX. Apparently, in this comparo the GT comes out on top.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let's give the TSX camp a couple of days of glory, though. LOL

    No surprise, different strokes for different folks...

    -juice
  • grove4grove4 Member Posts: 95
    If thats true why is the Legacy always compared to the TSX?I think the AudiA4 and the BMW330XI and the VOLVO S40 AWD would be great comparisons.Although they all pricier than the subaru,they are all AWD sedans geared towards sporty driving.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    C&D and R&T probably compared the TSX to the Legacy because they are owned by the same publisher. They probably just share test drive vehicles to save money.

    Ken
  • jim1969jim1969 Member Posts: 62
    wait until next month. Consumer reports will compare the legacy to the Acura TSX, Audi A4 Volvo S40. Let's see how this exact same comparison comes out. One glaring ommision in the C&D comparison was the fact that neither the Audi nor the Volvo had their AWD options. This would increase the price and weight. Their acceleration and braking would suffer the weight. The subie would trounce it even more.
  • grove4grove4 Member Posts: 95
    Never really seems to appreciate cars that I call exciting.They always had a love affair with the camry and cars like that.I bet they will love the TSX gas mileage.And the 200hp will be more than adequit for them.I can just almost see that comparison already.The legacy might score high on value with them though.
    The car and driver review seems to put alot of merit on gas mileage.I was thinking maybe acura customers would agree and prefer the civic motor as an option.
  • allaboutme1allaboutme1 Member Posts: 23
    I am traveling and came across the new R&T last night and read the GT versus the TSX comparison.

    The GT won but by a very close margin. I believe it was 585 points to 580 points (but don't hold me to that).

    The GT took top honors on HP and ride.

    The Acura took top honors on handling and transmission.

    The only thing I question is the Acura was equipped with a NAV (a $2,000 option). My guess is that with that removed from the pricing comparison, it would have been an absolute dead heat.

    After reading C&D and R&T I am willing to concede to a draw.

    Either way my Volvo S60 lease goes back tomorrow and my new TSX comes home on Saturday.

    ;)

    Go Red Sox!!
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    If thats true why is the Legacy always compared to the TSX?

    Price and cost of long-term ownership.

    Although I like the Audi, BMW, Volvo, I personally would not buy one. Their track record for repairs beyond 4 years is no where near Subaru and Honda. I will soon be replacing my 99 GT LTD with 110k, and price alone planted the 05 GT LTD right between the TSX and TL.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    If thats true why is the Legacy always compared to the TSX?

    The dimensions (wheelbase, etc.) are virtually identical. They're priced very close, and they're aimed at the same customer.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it looks like the C&D/R&T comparos have again re-opened the age-old argument: FWD vs. the world.

    It seems the TSX has again shown that FWD cars can indeed handle, if properly engineered. You can debate all you want as to whether the TSX or the LGT is better in this area, but regardless of your conclusion, and whoever wins—it's not by much. So maybe at 8/10s driving and above, FWD may not be optimal, but most owners will rarely if ever experience those conditions.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    CR will look at these cars from a practical standpoint. I bet a Legacy wagon would score higher than a sedan (that was true for previous generations they tested).

    Should be a fun weekend, allaboutme. Congrats.

    (watch - he be missing from the boards for a week, driving his new wheels).

    -juice
  • minnehahaminnehaha Member Posts: 2
    I really loved the TL and GT. The TL interior clearly outclassed the GT but the handling of the GT did the same to the TL. Make me a morph of the two and I will be in heaven. Clearly the TL has a serious problem with steering and the traction control is intrusive even if it keeps you alive. The Subaru's interior is vastly improve over my wife's old '94 Legacy or here new WRX but has week spots. Why they stopped improving when they got to the radio or that empty spot for the navigation system I don't know.

    I looked also at the G35x 325xi S60R A4 Passat but I bought the GT as I felt it provided the best balance of comfort and power and safety.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Got my R&T issue in the mail today, and yes, the Legacy GT wins but, just barely. I still say it really depends on what's important to you, as to which is best. AWD and a nice torquey engine does it for me. :)

    Bob
  • ryanl1ryanl1 Member Posts: 55
    That proves the publisher of C&D and R&T are smarter than all of us selling us both sides of the argument...must be run by lawyers.

    There's nothing really wrong with any of these cars just different strengths and weaknesses.Most people are smarter nowadays to look past luxury badges and compare what they want in a car:

    TL-good interior,loaded with features,power
    G35-power and handling, but substandard interior
    S40,S60-safety 1st,quirky interiors
    TSX-good price,gas mileage,handling
    GT-power,awd,handling
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nav is on its way for the Legacy, MY2006 at the latest. Some are even saying it'll be a running change for the 2005s.

    -juice
  • indy6packindy6pack Member Posts: 10
    I recently totaled my 1 yr old RSX. I loved that car and was very please with Acura. I want to get another Acura but cannot decide if I should upgrade to a TSX. I feel like I might need a change but I wasn't done driving my RSX. Like the four doors of the TSX but like the sporty feel of the RSX. Any suggestions?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The TSX has a more user-friendly powerband, being a 2.4L. It's also much more practical, being a 4-door. I'd say test drive one. You know the RSX, now find out if the TSX is worth the jump.

    Bob
  • indy6packindy6pack Member Posts: 10
    Thanks Bob...
    I have driven teh tsx several times but am really undecided...I like the four doors a lot...but there are several things about the RSX I like better too....its a shame bec i wasnt done driving the RSX but I went and drove one again and I felt a bit strange in it...sort of like this is not my car...
    Have you driven either?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've driven the TSX, and liked it a lot. I just wish it were AWD, like the Legacy GT. I also prefer the GT's power. :)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Stick with the known quantity, you loved the RSX so buy another.

    Rent a U-Haul when you need more room!

    -juice
  • allaboutme1allaboutme1 Member Posts: 23
    After a registration snafu I finally took delivery of my new TSX. I am thrilled with my decision. It is an absolute blast to drive, wicked fun, and the stereo kicks.

    Any more HP and I would be a serious danger to myself.

    Everyone so far that has seen it (friends, family, coworkers) have assumed it to be a $35K car.

    I got to admit that knowing that I was able to get an extremely fun to drive, luxorius, and well built car and for only $25K!!! really jazzes me.

    anyone on the fence, keep the extra cash in your pocket for gas money, go TSX and you'll have no regrets.

    Go Redsox!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Congrats.

    Now watch, he'll disappear for a week, going out for a drive whenever he gets spare time. ;-)

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I received my Road and Track magazine last night and read the TSX vs. GT comparo. It was an interesting read and it was clear the GT came out ahead due to it's power and handling advantage.

    One item that they point out was that the price difference between the two vehicles was $35 but the big difference was that the GT doesn't have a NAV system.

    Which got me thinking -- could $2000 in powertrain upgrades in a TSX get it reliably to the same power and drivetrain configuration as the GT? That's a 50HP/84ft-lb increase, LSD and VC center diffy.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    If the TSX had AWD and a turbo, I bet it would be about $2K more than it is now.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not in the aftermarket. A well engineered boost kit will run several thousand by itself. Jackson Racing probably has a supercharger fitment but I bet it's about what it costs for an RSX, $2,795 (plus installation).

    A Quaiffe torsen limited-slip front diffy would run about $900 just for parts.

    Forget getting power to the rear wheels, you'd need the whole driveshaft, two half shafts, the works. That would have to come from Acura, maybe VTM-4 or SH-AWD like the RL gets.

    Any how, the "value" of an AWD system is roughly $2000 as determined by the market, so in my mind AWD is about the same value as NAV.

    Really a front torsen by itself would work wonder for the TSX, and address the complaint about the inside front wheel spinning coming out of a turn.

    I think the TL has one, right? The previous gen CL Type S had it, but the base model did not. Maybe we'll see it trickle down.

    It surprised me how C&D didn't consider AWD a "feature", when it snows it's probably the only feature that counts. Your Nav will just keep reminding you of where you are stuck! Whoopee!

    -juice
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I would pay a $2K premium to get just the AWD alone. And another $1K for a small V6 instead of a turbo.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "It surprised me how C&D didn't consider AWD a "feature", when it snows it's probably the only feature that counts. Your Nav will just keep reminding you of where you are stuck! Whoopee!"

    I don't doubt AWD will have an advantage there, but I would venture to say that 90% of drivers only need FWD in 90% of any winter condition. Slap on a set of snow tires, and the 90/90 rule probably becomes 95/95.

    AWD (in a street car, not truck or SUV) would hold more appeal, to me at least, in dry condition handling advantage
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, but will you have the snows mounted when you need them?

    The last real Blizzard we had in Washington happened in late March. They'd have been off by then.

    It would be a pain to keep changing them back and forth. The change of seasons, here at least, is very unpredictable.

    -juice
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    No question AWD will be much more convenient. But another factor to consider is the wide, low-profile tires on sporty AWD cars (such as the Legacy GT). Those things aren't known to be great in the snow. You may find that you would still need snow tires.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They're not really that wide, 215mm IIRC. In fact I think it's the same width as the TSX.

    The Outback actually has wider tires, but it's also heavier.

    Skinny tires are good in snow. That and the rear engine is why Beetles (old ones) get around so great.

    -juice
  • emlevinsemlevins Member Posts: 1
    I have an 02 WRX and will until Saturday when it will be replaced with an 05 Legacy GT Ltd. IMHO, there is no comparison between the two regarding turbo lag - it is much more noticeable in the WRX. I became very used to it over the course of 3 years but did consider an engine mod to reduce it. Yesterday, I drove my WRX to the dealer, drove the GT for an hour and went back in my WRX for the ride home. Boy, what a difference. It seemed even more noticeable than ever in the WRX because it was virtually nonexistent in the GT (many reviewers have observed and commented on this). Also, I thought the GT seemed faster (Subaru claims a 0-60 time of 5.8 which would be nearly identical to the WRX) but it may have been because the engine was so quiet and refined and I didn't notice the speed until I looked at the speedo and went hmmmmm....

    I loved the WRX despite the lag. Not sure the GT will be quite as fun on windy country roads in that it didn't seem quite as "tossable" or responsive in cornering as the WRX. But, as one reviewer noted "the Legacy GT is the adult's WRX". I just hope that's true.

    Anyway - sorry to go on and on. Bottom line - my experience in an hour drive was that the GT had little if any discernible turbo lag. Big selling point with me.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree.

    Off boost the WRX is a 2.0l with low compression.

    The Legacy GT has 25% more displacement, higher compression, and AVCS (variable valve timing).

    So yeah, big difference.

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    The WRX has to work a lot harder to for that 0-60 sprint. Even though my OB XT with auto is surely slower than my 5-spd WRX was, the OB XT feels faster by a long shot. It's a lot more relaxed and easy going, whereas I would really have to flog the WRX to get the same performance. So I'd say that the GT and XT are faster than the WRX in a more practical way.

    Craig
  • boxboyboxboy Member Posts: 2
    Messages on this board have been very helpful. Thanks to all. . . . Picked-up my Pearl White stick Legacy 2.5 GT on Sept. 6 and have only a few hundred miles behind me. I had tested the TSX. Loved it for its combination of sportiness and smooth sophistication. With an Internet deal of $25,100 (no GPS), I almost bought it. But, being a former WRX owner, I had to drive the new LGT. To me, it was a no brainer. Since I opted for the GT without the Limited package, the cost was a wash with the TSX. However, performance (both straight-line and handling), AWD and the sheer joy and excitment of the driving experience made it a no brainer. I love this car! In a few months I will have been driving (legally) 50-years. In addition to more than a dozen motorcycles and a few family sedans, I've owned a '57 Chevy, a '62 Vette, a '67 GTO, four Porsches, a '96 SHO and two M3's. The LGT is the best drive I have had. BTW, Renick in Fullerton is, IMHO, the LA area's best Subaru dealer.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Congrats on the new car, and glad to hear your comments! I do think the Leg GT is the more natural upgrade for former WRX owners. Once you are accustomed to the dry handling capabilities of AWD, a FWD vehicle is a major change (at least for me).

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It is a big adjustment. You'll actually find the dynamics of RWD are more familiar.

    -juice
  • mattpmattp Member Posts: 1
    After finally deciding it was time to turn in my 95 Eagle Talon Tsi Turbo, frankly because I needed 4 doors for the new 3rd member of my family, I did exhaustive research and narrowed down my choices to the Acura TL, TSX, and Subaru LGT. Talk about a brain embolism! All 3 are excellent vehicles. It was very hard to decide. Eventually I decided on the TSX. True the LGT has more power but I had to be realistic, how often would I get to drive the way that car was meant to drive where I live? Not often. Add on the fact that I keep my cars almost 10 years and that puts me keeping ths car up to around age 47. The TSX had the better ride, outstanding refinement, price, expected life and maintenace, and fuel economy, and decent HP. It was time for the boy to grow up... So I got the TSX. People who sit inside actually guess the price at closer to $40K than the $25K I paid for it. A morphing of the two vehicles would produce the perfect entry sports sedan. Either way, both are much better deals than their German and Swedish competitors. I'd be a happy camper in either!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    how often would I get to drive the way that car was meant to drive

    Wiat 'til you run out of formula/diapers at midnight. ;-)

    Congrats, I'm sure you'll love the TSX.

    Out of curiosity, last time around, did you compare the DSM to a Prelude? It's sort of a similar comparison, is why I ask.

    -juice
  • naminami Member Posts: 1
    Boxboy,

    I'm in the market for a 05 Legacy 2.5GT Wagon. You gave props to Renick Subaru in Fullerton so I plan to give them a visit. Could you give me the name of the salesman who sold you your Legacy? By the way, did you get the sedan or wagon?

    Nami
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Nami - sorry, but we don't allow salesfolks' names to be posted - check out our Rules of the Road linked at the top of this page.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Finally got the chance to sample a TL this Saturday. Lexus hosted a "Taste of Luxury" event at FedEx Field near DC.

    It's less sporty than I imagined. The suspension felt a little loose, the steering a bit too light for my tastes. The event had a luxury category and a sport category, and the TL fell into the latter. I'd have to agree.

    The engine does have a nice punch to it, though. the 3.2l does just fine in this car, and driving the GS300 and BMW 530i back-to-back left the impression that those two cars were underpowered and needed V8s, while the Acura did fine without one.

    The interior is gorgeous. I'd seen it before, but a quick drive, a peek at the Nav system, the ergonomics, how everything is lit ... I could go on and on.

    I'm the type that would probably prefer the TSX (or the Legacy), because I like smaller/sportier cars, but my guess is my wife would pick the TL for its most luxurious interior and that Nav system.

    The FWD was only an issue when accelerating out of a tight turn, and it only gave gentle tugs on the wheel.

    SH-AWD would be nice but it almost needs some starch in the suspension a bit more.

    Nay, leave it like it is, I think the balance of luxury and sport is already impressive. Perhaps offer a more powerful TSX instead.

    -juice
  • grove4grove4 Member Posts: 95
    How did the accelleration on the TL feel compared to the 05 legacy GT's that you have driven?My neighbor bought the new auto TL and I have a 5sp Legacy and we both felt the Legacy feels much stronger.No doubt the TL has a great interior.Anyway what are your thoughts on accelleration?
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I can tell you that from my test drives the auto Legacy GT and the auto Outback H-6 didn't feel as strong as the TL auto. There seemed to be a fair amount of lag off-the-line before the engines "came on" -- for both the turbo and the 6. The TL feels more linear, IMO.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There was a long period between driving the two, but the turbo in the GT knocks your socks off, the TL's V6 does not.

    The TL did feel quicker than the 530i and GS300, and didn't feel one bit underpowered. It also revs up quickly and smoothly.

    I drove a TL automatic, but I've also driven a couple of GT automatics and those too felt quicker.

    The GTs we had were broken in, and on the Vegas Motor Speedway we didn't really test off the line acceleration much, since we had rolling starts merging on to the infield track.

    So I didn't notice any lag, but YMMV.

    FWIW, the TL's engine seemed much happier at high revs as well, it's not a torque pig at low rpms.

    So the GT might have throttle lag (delay in turbo spool up from the moment you hit the throttle), but the Acura lags a bit at low rpm, too.

    The character of these cars is quite different, though. The TL is a luxury car with a little sportiness sprinkled in. The Subaru is the opposite.

    -juice
  • nschulman3nschulman3 Member Posts: 125
    My STI was stolen last week (for the 2nd time in three months if you can believe it) and I need to get a car fast. I, too, have narrowed my choices to the TSX, TL or Legacy GT Limited. Having owned an A4, TT Quattro and WRX before the STI, I am used to the security of awd. However, my wife recently leased a G35x, so we already have awd in the family. I only drive about 8,000-10,000 miles per year and my car is really used for pleasure. I have experienced the joys of rwd in the past, but don't want to worry about the snow. I, like many others, feel that there are so many good cars out there now that you can't go wrong. Any help would be appreciated. I WILL NOT get another STI, as it attracts too much attention from car thieves.
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    The '05s have an engine immobilizer, which makes it a little harder to steal. Sorry about your STi, I know what a bummer it is to have your car stolen. ;-)

    Sounds like you just need an extra car for 'fun'. If you really liked your STi, you might like the GT. It's much nicer and more refined inside, quieter, more comfortable ride, and still a blast to drive. (I thought about the STi, but couldn't get past the wing!)

    The TL is nice, but not as performance oriented. The TSX is also nice, but will seem really slow compared to your STi. But still fun to throw around anyway (even though it's FWD)

    How about an RX-8 or G35 coupe? Or 350Z if you only need 2 seats? Mazda miata? Lotus Elise?

    All fun cars. Good luck!

    tom
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thieves might have been after your HID lights. That's definitely the case with Maximas, for instance.

    You may actually want to avoid the Acuras for that exact reason.

    The Legacy GT has projector beam headlights but they are not HIDs and will not attract the attention of thieves.

    Funny but in this instance an advantage turns out to be a disadvantage.

    -juice
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