Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Paying more than MSRP for (new) Hybrids, Depreciation/Value of used Hybrids

1141517192031

Comments

  • frodobfrodob Posts: 8
    Can the HCH be serviced at any shade-tree mechanic who can service a Civic? Or can it only be serviced at a dealer? Realise if it's dealer service only, that represents a 100% increase in ongoing maintenance costs and the used car price will reflect that.

    "Serviced" like oil changes, alignment, CV boots, AC repairs, Belts, etc etc etc? Sure it can.

    If you mean the IMA system? Probably not... but it already comes with a much longer warranty.

    There is a lot more to think about when you try to predict what future resale values will look like rather than making naive statements like "Civic Hybrid at 100K miles will NOT sell less than a Civic EX at 100K miles "just because it's a hybrid"

    You say that as if they aren't already selling. The hybrid with 100k sells for $2,000 more than the EX. In the DC area it's quite a bit higher than that. The highest mileage on the market near me is over 60k miles and is listed for $17,000.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    The highest mileage on the market near me is over 60k miles and is listed for $17,000.

    That is the price someone is hoping to get. The only place I know that you see prices paid is on eBay motors. Most dealers do not get close to what they want on hybrids. If you know of a better source for actual prices paid in the USA on used cars, please share with us. A few here on the forum have found that they have VERY POOR trade-in value after a couple years.

    The very fact that you are stuck with repair at the dealer after the warranty is up is a big turn off for me. Toyota & Honda are not known for being gracious after the 36k miles is up.
  • molokaimolokai Posts: 313
    Actually most manufactuers have hidden warranties that they don't want to consumers to find out about. GM and Ford are notorious for not giving a little wiggle room. They simply can't afford to as they'd be losing tons of money as everyone would be asking for warranty repairs when the engines and trannys start going at around 40k miles!! LOL
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    quote zodiac2004-"I believe you bought an extended warranty with your HCH. There is also the other person (molokai ??) who is proud of the fact he bought one with his Prius. Why buy it? A Civic or Camry certainly doesn't need one. Actions speak louder than words. You bought the warranty simply for one reason - fear of the unknown."-end quote

    Correct AMIGO - but your REASON is WRONG !! I have bought an extended warranty for every new or used car I have purchased since 1996. I don't have $1000 lying around unused in a bank account ready for every little "over 36,000 mile" or "over 60,000 mile" breakdown that ALL CARS have. Hybrid has nothing to do with it. My 1992 Infiniti Q45 kept losing fuel injectors at $600 a pop. My 1997 Suburban lost an A/C compressor at about 70,000 miles - $1400 out of my pocket. I learned of the wisdom of extended warranties the HARD WAY, and I have learned the lesson.

    Naïveté comes from lack of education. I am not lacking in education of about car values and/or understanding of the US car market and it's history.

    And the "shade tree mechanic" thing is a tired argument too. All modern cars are complex and almost all require a computer in the mechanics shop which can interface with the car. Hybrids are not alone in this area. Saying "I'm not buying a hybrid because mechanic Joe Schmo cannot work on it" is a ridiculous way to go about life.
  • john500john500 Posts: 409
    Can't argue with you there. Hybrid technology does appear to significantly improve fuel economy. However, I think a better start would have been to make cars lighter (such as is done in Europe currently). Look at the sub-compact cars available right now in Europe. They all get 50+ mpg highway. Why not start with one of those cars and then use hybrid technology to try for 70 or 80 mpg instead of trying to get a 10 ton tank to get 25 mpg?
  • frodobfrodob Posts: 8
    The very fact that you are stuck with repair at the dealer after the warranty is up is a big turn off for me. Toyota & Honda are not known for being gracious after the 36k miles is up.

    The items that you "need" to go to the dealer for are covered by quite a bit more than a 36k warranty.

    And I wouldn't put much stock in ebay sales as some kind of benchmark. A handful of sales nation-wide is nothing. There are a number of sources (NADA,KBB, etc) with thousands of sales that support the fact that the hybrid retails for a couple thousand over the EX. In the DC area, this is not just the price they are "hoping to get". There are several listed in this range.
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808
    First thing to realize here is that you have to be careful to NOT let things escalate and get personal. A lot of folks are taking the approach that they can "prove" something to others who may disagree with them. And when they don't "come around", things start to get a little more heated and personal. Everyone REALLY needs to avoid maiking comments about each other. It doesn't take much for these things to spin out of control.

    Trust me on this one. The other guys is going to come around to agreeing with your viewpoint just about the same time that you say, "Gee... I was wrong, YOU'RE right!", no matter how many times you repeat your points and no matter how many zingers you throw in at them.

    This topic is not about whether or not folks should buy hybrids. Let's stick to the topic of paying more than MSRP and values for used hybrids. That's plenty to keep us busy in this one.

    So take a couple of deep breaths while I sort out the off topic stuff here and then let's get this back on track.

    Thanks for your cooperation and participation.

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    I'm glad you popped in. What is your take on the Used car TMV that Edmund's posts here on this sight? Is it based on actual sales or historic data for different brands?
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808
    Actually, I think TMV is a fascinating "process". There's literally a group of PHD's that take the raw sales data, stir it all up and come up with the TMV pricing. It's not simply a compilation and averaging of sales in your area. Being a math geek, i would LOVE to sit down with these folks and get into the mathematical models and all that. But as far as my take on TMV goes, I find it to be a pretty accurate picture of what's happening in the market.

    Check out the Learn More About TMV pages if you want a little more insight. :) (hybrid pun alert)

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    Asked Terry at RWTIV's for his opinion, being in the "trenches" (or is that sandtraps?). Sounds like hybrid resale is going well:

    ..... Right now they are strong in the market, kinda like a big fish in a small pond .....

    And some people "really" feel they will save big money, and some will ... -if- they drive 25/45k a year and then keep it 7/8 years ..... but trading in a 2 year old Caddy or a Bimmer that gets 25mpg for a vehicle that gets 35mpg is kinda nutty if they drive 8/12k a year and then drop-in the $5,0/$6,000 of negative "eckity" ... but these are usually the same folks that have refi'd their home 3 times in the last 2 years and think their saving money ..l.o.l.....

    The reason why you see alot of hybrids for sale is -- comfort and size .... you take most drivers out of a Fat Daddy ride and drop them into a small hybrid and I will guarantee in 6 months or less you will see him sneaking around the lots looking at M45's, TL's, CTS's, etc, etc ........ hey, mine is not to reason "why" .. mine is to do or - aah, get paid for it ..........

    To answer your question - example only .... the 05 Ford Escape XLT 4x4 "Hybrid" is doing ..... drum roll please .... in and around the $25/$26 range at the auctions with 5/7k ------------------ Yikes.!
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,732
    "Seems like that even after 5 years the Prius is holding it's value better than comparable gas cars..... "

    The prices are skewed because of the current hybrid "trendiness"; in 2008-2009 hybrids will be less trendy and the true resale will show. Also, the curren upward trend in gas prices has helped.

    Not that I'm saying they won't hold their value. I'm saying we won't know for sure until then...
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    "I'll never put one of those new-fangled telephones in my house - too many unkowns"
    Homer Smith, Tuscaloosa Alabama, 1905.

    "You'll never see those horseless carrriages at my estate - too many unknowns"
    Broderick Harrington III, The Hamptons, 1910.

    "Why would a family ever need a Color TV? My black and white works just fine."
    Ward Cleaver, 1957

    "Toyota Targeting Mass Sales - Toyota said it will aim the hybrid system at the mass market. Whether it can succeed will depend in large part on the price, which Toyota hasn't yet announced. "It's nice to have the technology, but they've got to sell to have an impact on the environment," said Securities Ltd. analyst Peter Boardman."
    Wall Street Journal, March 26, 1997

    "I don't consider hybrids to be worth paying over MSRP at this time; too many unknowns...."
    stevedebi, Edmunds, 2005.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,732
    ""I don't consider hybrids to be worth paying over MSRP at this time; too many unknowns...." stevedebi, Edmunds, 2005."

    Thank you for illustrating how different my opinion is from the ones around the turn of the 20th century. People really should never use the word 'never'... ;)

    ""Toyota Targeting Mass Sales - Toyota said it will aim the hybrid system at the mass market. Whether it can succeed will depend in large part on the price, which Toyota hasn't yet announced. "It's nice to have the technology, but they've got to sell to have an impact on the environment," said Securities Ltd. analyst Peter Boardman."
    Wall Street Journal, March 26, 1997 "

    This statement is still true, they have to sell to have an impact on the environment, and cost is still one of the biggest detriments to hybrid sales. Rather good comment, I should think. At the moment, hybrids make up maybe less than 1% of the market annually (or so, I don't have the exact numbers, but it is less than 100k cars out of millions sold).
  • tdohtdoh Posts: 298
    Perhaps, but how much total money has come out of a person's pocket after 5 years, when applied to each of those vehicles...assuming that the APR on the loan taken out for each of those vehicles is more or less the same?
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808
    Again, we're completely off topic here. This discussion is for talking about paying more than MSRP( the hybrid premium) and resale value of used hybrids.

    This is not about HOV lanes, diesel vs hybrid, emissions, tax credits, or anything else that's in the previous 6 posts here.

    When a user comes to the forum, they have an expectation to find content in the discussion that has something to do with the titles they see. But we keep winding up in the same off topic "debate" with the same folks trying to make the same points to each other. And it keeps happening in multiple topics.

    It's time to pay a little attention to the topics you're posting in and keep things focused on that topic.

    Most of the off topic stuff is more appropriate for the Tax Credits / incentives for hybrids? discussion and I'll move them there..

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • Its no secret that, if you want a hybrid, you gotta wait and you gotta pay more. Seems that you don't have to be clarvoyant to see that there is more than a trend in the works. I see success written all over the hybrid cars frankly because they deliver on lowering the car buyers dollars in the tank. That with todays drastic rise in fuel costs spells a winner. My Prius, after 2 yrs in the works, not only delivers but it does it with several additional extras not to be expected in an intermediate size car. I believe in my Prius. I enjoy it better than just about any car I ever bought. ( that is a running total of 57 cars thru the yrs) :shades:
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    I would never pay more than MSRP mainly out of principal. I just don't understand why anyone in their right mind would pay 3-5k over MSRP for a Prius (or any car for that matter). If their logic was to save money on gas, they can forget that!
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,732
    "I would never pay more than MSRP mainly out of principal. I just don't understand why anyone in their right mind would pay 3-5k over MSRP for a Prius (or any car for that matter). If their logic was to save money on gas, they can forget that!"

    I have to agree, mostly because I'm too stubborn to pay above MSRP.
  • molokaimolokai Posts: 313
    I'm in agreement. I got $500 off when I bought mine. I'd never pay a dime more.
  • otis1otis1 Posts: 142
    we're so used to seeing GM cars that the notion of paying MSRP has become absurd. but the truth is, GM cars are overpriced. But why is paying $500 off msrp on a honda a good deal, while $5000 off on a GM is a bad deal? because consumers are looking at the value of the car.

    If I go an buy an xbox and pay half the original msrp, $150, is that a bad deal? yes it is because its about to become obsolete. but 3 years ago, paying (the then msrp) of $300 was a good buy because it was the best game you could get for the money. (i have no idea, I don't play video games nor did I ever buy one- i'm just using a popular non-car example)

    maybe in cars, the notion of MSRP has become a bit of a game with everyone.
This discussion has been closed.