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Paying more than MSRP for (new) Hybrids, Depreciation/Value of used Hybrids

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  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    I've never looked at the TCO but I am certain it takes into account depreciation. That still is a big if. When I think of TCO I mainly am concerned with maint. costs/fuel/insurance. I am quite certain the ownership experience will be a happy one.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,894
    We can expand on that and find that the Toyota Tundra full size PU truck has a TCO cost per mile the same as the Prius II. Both are $.49 per mile. You ignored the reason that the hybrids do not fare so well. It is depreciation over several years. Sure right now while the market is hot they bring big prices even used. The big question is how much will Toyota give you in trade 5 years from now on a new hybrid?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I'm sure someone has or will trade a 2001 Prius for a 2006 Prius. That will be a known number soon.

    But the problem with that is: we all know how "awful terrible insulting" dealers are when it comes to offering trade-in values on ANY car. Hybrids will be no worse or better - it's just another car, like any other car, that the dealer will want to LOWBALL you for on trade-in.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    I never trade in a car at the dealer. Even though there is a sales tax advantage, overall you're better off selling privately. With so many websites that cater to auto sales, it's very easy to sell a car privately these days. I know a great place in Rehoboth Beach, DE that takes cars on consignment. He always gets top dollar and you pay a small fee. This guy actually bought my Mini Cooper Conv. for 1k less than what I paid and I owned it for six months.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    From another Prius owner on the web:

    "Well I went to the Toyota dealer last night with my 03 Prius and he offered me 16,500 for my car. I did the math and with 35,500 miles on the 03 I felt like it was the right thing to do. I lowered my payment by $5, got a 3 year warranty and a vehicle that has a lot more amenities than the 03."

    So getting $16,500 trade value for a 2003 Prius with 35,500 miles seems pretty darn good. This owner paid $24,200 for a new 2005 Prius with Package #4 at MSRP, only had to pay the diff of $7700.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    That's incredible!! I am quite impressed with how well the Prius value has been lasting. I checked KBB for the value of my sister's Prius and it is valued at $20,625 for a private sale. She paid under MSRP for the car (a few hundred) and she's had it for two years. She has no intentions of selling.
  • tdohtdoh Posts: 298
    Ha...in five years, some of those folks will be passing by in hybrids that'll make Railroadjames' Prius look like a Flintstone mobile, technology-wise.
  • tdohtdoh Posts: 298
    Gee, I wonder what was "wrong" with that '03 Prius that the owner felt he needed to trade up to an '05 model; yes, the owner did mention that the '05 had more amenities than the '03...but if one buys a hybrid to save on fuel costs--among other savings--trading up after just two years clearly says something about the "satisfaction" of driving an "older" Prius...
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Probably the same reason someone goes from a 2000 C Class MB to a 2002 MB. Not everyone things out there purchases. Hybrids are no exception.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    In five years railroad james will get a great deal MORe money on trading his car than most people will. By then, the Prius will have even more content, more battery life. Heck... I'm already salivating!! Get my 06 in 12 weeks!! Can't wait!!
  • It was easier to buy a new one than to replace the battery. LOL

    That used to be a joke when I was a kid, "the rich people bought a new Cadillac because the tire went flat" No foreign cars back then.
  • Ha!!! Ha!!! With all that gas $$$$ I'll have saved I'll be able to afford the next techno marvel and still fit BOTH of them in my garage at the same time.
    It's never too late to become the wiser and ..."HYBRIDIZE."

    PS.. Last night I stopped to help out a guy driving an "Excursion". He ran out of gas....Hmmmmmmmm. No surprise there. Funny thing he said was...."Wanna trade?" I smiled!
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "PS.. Last night I stopped to help out a guy driving an "Excursion". He ran out of gas....Hmmmmmmmm. No surprise there. Funny thing he said was...."Wanna trade?" I smiled!"

    Try towing a boat, or carrying 7 passengers, with your Prius and report back. Every vehicle has it's uses.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Most people don't have boats. I used to but decided to rent, it was cheaper. I also used to own a plane, but now I rent. If I HAD to tow a boat, I'd rent a truck. Much cheaper. The Prius can hold five passengers. I can't remember the last time I ever had to transport seven people. Last time I saw an excursion, some bimbo was driving to work in it. What as waste. I just laughed!!! Hey RR James... keep telling us those funny stories... I love 'em!!!
  • Seems every time I cross paths with one of those owners of V8 Behemoths THEY always respond as though they 're stuck with a "mistake". I've noticed a trend ...that they regret the fact that they're in a rut they can't unload.
    As to those comments concerning my Prius hauling a boat ....Actually I do haul a boat.....a Canoe & kayak. They really are a great way to see it all. Of course I can't get momma to para-sail behind the canoe and I can't get her to pull me water-skiing but I haven't given up yet. She insists she wants to lose weight. What better way!! Come to think of it...I could lose a few lbs too!
    By the way....Isn't an Excursion technically a SEMI??
    Railroadjames(I think I sold him on a Prius come to think of it) ;)
  • There you go again with that thing about "SIZE". Is it debi or steve that needs the size thing? Personally I can haul 10 people in 2 Prius's and still be using much less gas than one Excursion that gets 9-10 mpgs. Hmmmmm Is it any wonder Ford quit building those Behemoths? They're still sitting on their lots collecting dust. I guess Ford is going to have to come up with some other crazy gimmic to get rid of them. :P
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    If Ford was selling them for 5k I wouldn't buy one. I have no idea what average family would want one with today's gas prices!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,894
    Excursion that gets 9-10 mpgs

    Many of the diesel Excursion owners are claiming 20+MPG. It is the best large SUV for mileage & towing. Not every one needs one. For us in remote locations it is the best vehicle available. If you look at consumers reviews you will find that owners like the Excursion as well as the Prius owners like their car. Your anti-SUV bias is not making a case for the hybrids. It is only polarizing prospective buyers. When you tell someone they are driving a piece of crap, They will more than likely not want anything you would drive.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    It is not really anti-suv, but more likely anti 9-10 mpg vehicles. In defense of RR James I suggest you look back at some of your anti Prius/Hybrid posts. Those posts also polarize people as well.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,859
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  • Let's clarify one simple point. My opinions, as of late, reflect the opinions of the folks that seem to be complaining about "THE RUT THEY'RE IN and they have come to realize they're trapped. Suddenly they realize they don't absolutly have to have all that size and capacity. Seems to be their problem and they don't much like it. One thing for sure, this winter many a home-owner is going to find out those massive homes with their cathedral ceilings and massive windows etc, are going to re-educate them on what they need as opposed to what they splurged on. Heating bills will bring about the same crisis as gas for vehicles. Lets all hope for a mild winter!!
    Railroadjames( the times.. they are a changing) ;)
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "There you go again with that thing about "SIZE". Is it debi or steve that needs the size thing? Personally I can haul 10 people in 2 Prius's and still be using much less gas than one Excursion that gets 9-10 mpgs."

    I drive a CR-V and my wife drives a Civic, at least that is what I am assuming you mean by your first sentence, since any other meaning would be childish. The CR-V fits my needs and has far more light off road and cargo capacity than the Prius.

    - How heavy is the boat you haul behind either of those two Prius? You should also note that you would have paid more than twice as much for those two vehicles than for one Excursion, which might pay for some of that gas.

    - The excursion is eligible for the diesel engine and probably gets around 20MPG with that setup.

    My point is that some people do have a legitimate need for a large SUV. Just because you see some with only one person inside doesn't mean that the vehicle isn't used for it's design purpose at other times. Maybe that little lady just dropped off most of the soccer team at practice, including all equipment.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    What did soccer moms do in the 60's and 70's and early 80's? No SUVs really to speak of. They should come out with a fuel efficient wagon that has the hauling capacity of an SUV. With your CRV, you merely have a Civic on stilts. I would never want to venture anywhere on a trail with a CRV. I used to have an Audi allroad and even on full air height I'd never venture far (8" of ground clearance). I'd prefer to take my chances with a ten yr old subie. That's just me. A CRV with a diesel would be really nice. AWD, low 30's mileage and minimal offroad capability. Not bad. Too bad it ain't gonna happen. Thanks CARB for that.
  • station wagons and actually there was very little soccer in the 60's and early 70's.

    Hey this guy that I network with in user meetings is now conserving gas he traded in his two minivans for one 12 passenger vechicle to save gas. He has 6 kids :P if you can imagine.

    Most SUVs area joke. only 5-10% every go off road and most rarely haul their capacity and those that do hauls passengers, not weight.

    For those that haul big boats, why do you need big boats ?

    YMMV,

    MidCow
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "What did soccer moms do in the 60's and 70's and early 80's? No SUVs really to speak of. "

    The Chevy Surburban has been around since 1939, but I think those folks used station wagons that got about the same bad MPG as todays SUVs.

    "With your CRV, you merely have a Civic on stilts. I would never want to venture anywhere on a trail with a CRV."

    Well, I do take it onto secondary off roads, and it is not merely a civic. It actually turns shorter, and the suspension and all other components have been strengthened. It did start out with a Civic platform, but the end product is not as you describe. I would not take it too far into the boonies, it simply wasn't designed for that. It has a little over 8 inches of clearance.

    The European CR-V diesel is getting about 40 MPG. Perhaps with the new low sulfur diesel in 2007 CARB will allow the diesels.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "For those that haul big boats, why do you need big boats ? "

    Remind me again of the towing capacity of the Prius? So far the only boats towed have been canoes. Just how small a boat do you want to take on the open ocean?
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    If you can afford a big boat, you don't need a Prius. End of story.
  • What makes the Prius the amazing hybrid that it is. It has, unlike many previous hybrids, alot of room for comfort & convenience. It also has the hatch and fold-down seat aspect that really comes in handy. Toyota has a well designed drivetrain (Synergy) I still am amazed how well it works in vaious traffic situations. I do realize the still obvious limitations of my Prius. No, its not gonna pull a 32 ft Cutty Cabin and no its not gonna handle 7 or 8 soccer kids w/ equipmnt ...BUT... It will handle the usual 95% of one's driving needs. Thats the point! Get it? 90 to 95 percent of the time the Prius is going to deliver on one's daily needs overall. When I see a lone single person in a BIG BOX Hummer, Escalade, Suburban, Excursion or Navigator I see ..SELF INDULGENCE, WASTE, and, most of all, EXCESS STATUS ATTAINMENT...90 % of the time.
    One aspect I expect around the corner is "rationing". Boy! That ought to shake things up when and if that ever happens. :sick:
    Railroadjames ( a change is in order)
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Toyota is now measuring "time on the lot" for the Toyota Prius in hours, not days. The average Prius goes unsold for only about 20 hours after it hits a Toyota dealer's lot, according to a recent report.

    With gasoline prices now around $3 a gallon, you might think it makes a lot of sense that hybrid cars are hot sellers.

    Actually, it doesn't -- at least not a lot of financial sense.

    They may make a social statement you're interested in, but if you want to save money because of rising gas prices, you're heading down the wrong road, at least for now.

    Some simple calculations by our partners at Edmunds.com revealed the following:

    A hybrid Honda Accord costs about $3,800 more than the comparable non-hybrid version, including purchase, maintenance and insurance costs. Over five years, assuming 15,000 miles of driving per year, you'll make up that cost in gasoline money if the price of gas goes up immediately to $9.20 a gallon and averages that for the whole period.

    CNN Money Hybrid myth
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    I always trust news from CNN (Communist News Network). What did they say about a Prius or HCH? Can't wait to get mine. I hope others are disuaded from what they read. The well educated will benefit with more to choose from. Don't always believe the crap you read. It's bad for your health.
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