Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Paying more than MSRP for (new) Hybrids, Depreciation/Value of used Hybrids

1679111221

Comments

  • enchiladaenchilada Posts: 40
    The Prius is very interesting....as are the other hybrids. I hope the technology proves itself over time...but (to me) it's a fad at this point. The talk is big but the numbers aren't in yet. I like the concept but am not impressed with the car - yes I've been in a 2005. The VW turbodiesels are much more solid feeling cars to me, have greater range, and get the same or better fuel mileage. Before you say they use more fossil fuels, take a mouthful of bologna. Work is work - the Prius engine is consuming just as much fuel as the TDI engine (for the same mpg) - I don't care if it is powering the car directly or converting that fuel energy into electricity to propel the electric motor/charge the battery. My backyard or yours? It's the same thing.

    I'll temper my statements by saying that I hope these cars succeed in the long term, because I am fascinated from an engineering standpoint. A superior route at this point? If it makes you feel better, sure....otherwise, nothing outstanding here compared to some other IC technologies.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    I would not consider the Prius a poor handling car by any means. My brother-in-law installed 16" tires and the car performs quite admirably. It has stability control which really makes it a joy to drive in the snow. You can't even get that on an accord. Go figure! He is getting over 50 MPG at 60-65 which is 20 mpg better than what you're getting. Who's laughing now????
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    The problems with the VWs is their abysmal reliability. I've owned one and one of their cousins (Audi). I know. The Prius does not pollute the air like a VW diesel. That's what is important to me.
  • I stand corrected...Amphicar is the car I almost sunk on a test drive. Thanks for the reminder and clarification.
    railroadjames
  • oldjoeoldjoe Posts: 132
    If you read the Prius forums you will note that the current hybrids are not trouble free. And, despite the hype, the Prius has some teething problems, especially since it cannot be driven if there is a problem with the computer or hybrid battery pack.

    However, my main concern is where would you ever find a mechanic to fix any hybrid problem... except hopefully at a qualified dealer! Trying to train every back yard and gas station mechanic is just not going to work. Let's see, will BBMCO fix a transmission problem and will QuickyLube understand that they cannot put any motor oil into a hybrid except the specified type...not a problem for the people with autos under warranty, but how about the aftermarket on used cars. Tecky's might understand but not the average USA driver who just puts gas in and maybe changes the oil every 8-10,000 miles. I am betting that the used car market for non-warranted hybrid used cars may wind up to be a bit thin!
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Not according to what I've been reading. People are paying quite a dollar to buy pre- 2004 Prius. Truth be told, any car today should be serviced by the dealer. We're not in the 70's anymore. Just try bringing an Audi to Joe's Service Station. LOL.... I can just imagine!!! The Prius and future hybrids are gonna do fine. Can't wait to get mine!!!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,020
    Just try bringing an Audi to Joe's Service Station

    That is a very good point. If you cannot find a mechanic that can work on your modern car after the warranty is up, you are in trouble. Dealerships and especially Toyota & Lexus are known for over charging on after warranty repairs. A car like a Prius is especially bad as there is little chance of finding an independent repair shop for the near future. Several posters are already feeling the pain of repairing a Prius that is out of warranty. A 2003 Prius should not have a $3800 plus repair bill. This happened with in days of her buying the car. Sounds like the someone dumped their Prius on an unsuspecting, would be advocate of the hybrid technology. She will now be a very vocal voice against the Prius. The Prius is a very visible symbol of the emerging hybrid technology. When 20 or 30 people stall on the highway it gets more headlines than the 800,000 trucks that Toyota had to recall. Toyota should have kept the 8 year 100k mile B to B warranty they offered on the original Prius. At least until all the bugs are worked out.
  • blaneblane Posts: 2,017
    Gary,

    Is the mechanic at Joe's Service Station going to service your new GMC Sierra Hybrid for hybrid-technology-related concerns any time soon?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,020
    Not until the warranty is up. If the vehicle is relatively trouble free I will keep it. If not I'll dump it and try something else. We did find an excellent mechanic for the Lexus. I would never trust a Lexus dealership again after our experience with those thieves.

    PS
    Bob Baker Lexus, our once dealer, is asking ten thousand dollars markup for the RX400h on their lot. If that does not qualify as a thief, I don't know what might.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Gary... one dealer screws you and you condem them all? Now that hybrids are emerging and becoming a little more mainstream time will tell regarding repair issues. If Toyota fails to keep owners happy, their hybrids will fail. It's plain and simple. Regarding the issue with the stalls, we've been down that road. Why don't we hear about it in the news anymore? No one with brand new 05's has experienced the problem. It was a software issue and has been solved.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,890
    Please note the discussion title and stick to relevant conversation. Further off-topic posts will be deleted without notice.

    kirstie_h
    Roving Host
    Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,020
    One dealer represents Lexus and ultimately Toyota. The $10k premium over the MSRP on the already overpriced RX400h is par for the brand. I think that Lexus is living in the past. From 1990 they strived to be the best. They reached that pinnacle and are now acting like they can get away with anything they want. I have no reason to go to another dealer. I don't see us buying another vehicle with the Lexus brand attached to it.
  • tdohtdoh Posts: 298
    Well, duh--you (or actually, your brother-in-law) swapped out the small OEM Prius tires for 16" ones. I mean, similar results can be achieved with almost any other vehicle with such a swap. Put it this way--if you don't consider the Prius a poor handling car, why the upgrade to 16" wheels? Why the need for additional improved handling? I mean, did you buy the Prius so that you can drive it like a sports car? If anything, by doing so you've probably created a drop--however small it may be--in fuel economy due to the addition of unsprung weight (heavier 16" wheels and tires, relative to the OEM ones) and increased rolling resistance (odds are the tires that are on those 16" wheels are wider than the OEM ones).

    But staying on topic--I would not buy a used (5+ years) hybrid unless the batteries have been swapped out; I don't care how well a hybrid holds its resale value...I sure as heck wouldn't want to pay such a relatively "high" resale premium, just to find out that I'll have to shell out thousands of dollars to replace the batteries. Is this one reason why hybrids are such a good value for some of the folks who buy them new? Drive them until the batteries are close to their life-expectancy, then justify selling a hybrid with such a condition at such a high resale value to some unknowing person by touting all of the advantages that hybrids offer?

    And for those folks who feel that solo hybrid drivers are entitled to carpool lanes? Clearly those folks don't know the meaning of "carpool"--the primary purpose of carpool lanes was/is to reduce traffic congestion. Solo hybrid drivers do nothing to reduce such congestion...
  • tdohtdoh Posts: 298
    I totally understand where you're coming from; I mean, I'm almost willing to bet that the only folks who can afford to pay for a RX400h are probably in the same category as those folks who can afford to buy $50K+ vehicles anyways--either that, or they sold off their kids for the privilege of being a RX400h owner. I mean, how many Prius owners can comfortably afford to buy a RX400h?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,020
    how many Prius owners can comfortably afford to buy a RX400h?

    How many Prius owners can afford to maintain the Prius after they have bought it. One person on here purchased a used 2003 Prius only to find the NAV was defective. No warranty and Toyota quotes $3800 plus labor. That person was not able to afford a used Prius. The price for trying to be "green" was being ripped off.
  • molokaimolokai Posts: 313
    I hear the original rubber is pretty awful. John1701a (a Prius afficianado) replaced his tires with Michelins and loves the way it drives now. I love the way my Prius goes down the road so quietly. I still have 15" tires from Nokian and they really change the car's personality. I love this car!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,890
    have been removed. This discussion is not about WHY people choose to drive hybrid vehicles, and it's not about other members who participate in this Forum.

    kirstie_h
    Roving Host
    Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • In Houston,

    There are many Priuses on Toyota delaer lots selling at MSRP. If you are willing to deal you can get $500-$1000 off. Most are base models or with the lower level option packages..

    There is no latent backlog, so Toyota has wised up and are not able to charge $2,500 over invoice or wait 3-6 months.

    The used Prius seem artifically high; close to new. Not sure why.

    ===

    HAH was selling for about $2000 less than MSRP about 6 months ago. However, with the recent gas price increase it seems like the price has gone back up closer to MSRP.

    ===

    Long term resale will be a whole another animal. The jury is out on battery replacement. If it is truly modular and replacement cost will low or will the whole battery need to be replaced.

    The funny thing is with the 8-10 yr warrant and 100,000-150,000 miles most people have not had to address the warranty. A few who have have horror stories to tell; vendor saying the battery is still within normal range although it dischares very quickly , so theywon't replace. If battery problems start to happen and replacement cost is high, the the price of used Hybrids will drop like a rock.
    =========

    It may be only a few cases or maybe even one made up case, but there appear to be some CVT tranmission issues with the HCH. Also, there is a least one unintended acceleration issue; remember Audi back in the 80s; almost killed Audis completely.

    ============

    I still don't understand why someone supposedly interested in economy would pay $2-3,000 than MSRP for a Hybrid model when it is already $2-3,000 more than the gas engine (ICE) only equivalent. Passion seems to override economics because supposedly the hybrid has a few special/extra fetures thrown in.

    I decided I couldn't give up a manual shift so I went with a 6-speed economy/performance car

    MidCow

    P.S. - I would give an A+ to the Hybrid marketing teams :)
  • molokaimolokai Posts: 313
    Actually... I'd give a B- to the marketing teams and an A+ to the press.
  • otis1otis1 Posts: 142
    No way, the marketing team deserves and A++ to be able to manipulate the press the way they did.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,893
    Not sure they get any higher (or lower) marks than any other marketing teams over the last few years that got people into a frenzy and "gotta have it NOW" mode over things like the VW Beetle, PT Cruiser, etc.

    Sometimes people ARE sheep! :)

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? pf_flyer@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • molokaimolokai Posts: 313
    WOW... I never knew we could manipulate the press. :)
  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    ...is, IMHO, the best in the business.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,020
    I never knew we could manipulate the press

    I believe we do from time to time. Most of the articles written about the 33 Prius that had stalled on the highway, quoted Edmund's Forum as a major source.
  • Toyota PR - Public Relations _ IMHO fell to an all time low when they hoarded over the intial Prius demand and treated customers so arrogantly rude. Some will forgive and forget and others will never go back to Toyota.

    Now I think Toyota's advertising and marketing is the best, but their local dealer public relations and customer service hit rock bottom.

    One Soul Toyota Lost,

    Mid Cow
  • molokaimolokai Posts: 313
    I guess the same people feel that way when they go to a Pontiac dealer who want to charge 7k over list for a Solstice. At least the rollout for the Lexus went pretty smooth.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,020
    I guess the same people feel that way when they go to a Pontiac dealer who want to charge 7k over list for a Solstice.

    I don't think you see the difference as midnightcowboy and the bulk of America see it. When someone is trying to help out the environment by being "green" (yourself excluded). It is a shame that the automaker touting themselves as environmentally in-tune, are GOUGING those that would try to help. I would put it up close to Starbucks charging people 5 bucks a bottle for water during the 9/11 terrorist attack in NYC. The Pontiac Solstice is a toy like the Sony Playstation. It is not a symbol of environmental integrity as the Prius is advertised to be. Some people paid double and more for the Playstation. They were not doing it to clean up the environment. That is the difference!
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Gary.. I don't think YOU understand the problem either. Toyota didn't realize they had such a winner on their hands. Their dealers gouged the public, NOT Toyota. They got caught with their pants down. They increased capacity and now supply has caught up with demand. Now Toyota is planning on bringing out more hybrids. I don't see the problem. Amazing how some people can't stand when a foreign company beats an American company. If you recall, the rollout for the Lexus and HH were SMOOTH. I am sure the same will go for the Camry. Get used to it. Hybrids will one day rule the earth. :P
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,020
    Hybrids will one day rule the earth

    Not in our lifetime.

    If you think that the dealers actions do not reflect for or against the manufacturers, You are not living in a real world. I have seen many, many references to being treated poorly by a dealership and that person writing the brand off their list of possible cars.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Maybe that's the reason Toyota will eventually rule the world in marketshare in OUR lifetime. It's only a matter of time. I am a lot younger than you so maybe in your lifetime you won't see it, I certainly will.
This discussion has been closed.