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BMW 535D

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  • reecereece Posts: 1
    Just read a test of the BMW 535d, this engine is amazing! A 3,0L diesel with 272hp and 414ft.lbs, that's more than the new 330i's 258hp! You Americans are missing out on the diesel evolution here in Europe. Just a few years ago when BMW introduced the first 530d it was rated at 184hp, while at the time the 528i was rated at 193hp. At that time diesels put out less horsepower than it's gasoline counterparts, but today the diesels surpass their gasoline counterparts! Not only BMW's diesel engines but about every European carmaker's diesels.

    I just read about the new Mercedes E420CDI, witch puts out 314hp, and 540ft.lbs from a 4,0L V8 diesel! The E500 only puts out 306hp from a 5,0L V8 gas engine!
    But it's the torque of the diesel engines that's the real advantage, they have so much more torque than gas engines!

    The new BMW 320d, this is a 2,0L inline 4, that puts out 163hp and 252ft.lbs of torque. It does 0-60 in 8,4sec and a top speed of 138mph with an automatic! The manual numbers are even more impressive! It averages 35,3 miles to the gallon.

    I feel al little sorry for you amreicans since you don't have this technology over there.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    I feel al little sorry for you amreicans since you don't have this technology over there.

    Welcome to the Forum. We do appreciate you folks in Europe perfecting the diesel vehicles. So when we do finally get them they will be the best. Have a fine week.

    PS
    Have hybrids made any impact in Europe that you have noticed?
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    "Have hybrids made any impact in Europe that you have noticed?"

    Not much, to the best of my knowledge. There are reviews and articles from time to time in the specialized press, but I barely see hybrids kicking the roads/streets, at least in Spain and the south of France, which are the places I mostly stroll.

    Best regards,
    José
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    Hoping not to move away too much from the BMW 535d topic of this forum since I will keep into Diesels, I post in the following some news taken from Winding Roads electronic magazine (requests at requests@windingroad.com).

    #1. Mercedes-Benz Gets It
    Mercedes will offer two fascinating new sports cars, the SL400 and the SLK320 CDIs. These cars are interesting because they should be among the first sports car chassis to sport diesel power. And not just any diesel power. The 320 CDIs will come with a tri-turbo V-6 dishing out 465 lb•ft of torque. The SL400 will have a twin-turbo V-8 diesel that jumps off the line under the auspices of 538 lb-ft of grunt. Thesecars should accelerate faster than the base gasoline cars. Socialresponsibility meets fun. Ja!

    #2. Mercedes Diesels Set Record
    In May, three Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI sedans set world diesel
    endurance records, covering 100,000 miles at an average speed of
    139 mph. Each car completed over 20,000 laps at the Laredo, Texas,
    high-speed circuit during a 30-day period. Mercedes was particularly
    interested in demonstrating the durability of its new maintenance-free
    particulate filter, part of a package of emissions control features that
    make diesel a practical alternative for the future.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah I've read about those too, mainly at Germancarfans.com. The SLK320 CDI though hasn't been officially announced for production since according to Mercedes those three turbos in that V6 are very expensive to build.

    The only thing I wonder about is how these engines will sound with the top down on a SLK or SL. Other than that if these go into production they should give these two roadsters a much broader appeal in Europe. We'll never see such a thing in the U.S.

    M
  • 330iii330iii Posts: 71
    Make mine an 07 / 08 535d or 335d? Via European Delivery! :shades:
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    Although the 535d sure is the engine that cast more temptations around, the 530d one has also some advantages. I am translating here a comparo appeared in a Spanish magazine.

    Acceleration 80-120 km•h (49.71-74.56 mi•h)
    BMW 530d manual: 4.9 sec
    BMW 535d auto: 4.4 sec

    Recuperation 80-120 km•h (49.71-74.56 mi•h) in 4th gear
    BMW 530d manual: 5.6 sec
    BMW 535d auto: 5.6 sec

    Recuperation 80-120 km•h (49.71-74.56 mi•h) in 5th gear
    BMW 530d manual: 7.1 sec
    BMW 535d auto: 7.5 sec

    Perhaps more important is that the 535d averages 2 l•100km more than the 530d does (that is, 0.85 gallon•100mi more). The 525d should indeed be more economic and still enough efficient.

    However, there is no other Diesel car quicker than the BMW 535d in its segment.

    Best regards,
    José

  • austxjraustxjr Posts: 1
    As long as we're dreaming (but might wake up from that dream in less than two years) why don't we wish for a BMW 530THD (Turbo Hybrid Diesel) that runs on biodiesel or better yet, an M3 with a THD engine. After all the gas 3.2L M3 engine produces just over 104 hp/L normally aspirated. With hybrid on a diesel you could get higher torque at 0 rpm off the line (with the engine stopped to save fuel) and increase mileage another 10 to 30%. Theorhetically the electric engine would just have to spin the diesel (and move the car) to compression start the engine after shutting it off at desirable times. It just might be able to match the M3 performance and more than double it's mileage! All that an almost no greenhouse gases, sulphur, or particulate matter with biodiesel and a boost to national security and U.S. farmers..... it's a win, win, win.

    Just because I'm selling my pristine '97 328iC with only 56K on it (before gas goes to $4 a gal and it loses all value) after I return from Mexico in three weeks in order to buy a '98 or '99 M-B TDI to become a tree hugging diesel owner doesn't mean I don't drool over the M3 and want my cake and eat it too.

    Anybody know how one can bring these diesels into the U.S. grey market like they did with Eurocars in the '80's? If you run biodiesel in them then the low sulphur thing doesn't make a bit of difference (though if you had to fill up with regular U.S. diesel at some point it might hurt the PM filter or the emissions gear on the diesel - the solution is to carry a 5gal container of biodiesel in the trunk just in case) since biodiesel has 80% to 100% less sulphur than petro diesel (U.S.) and usually 1/3rd the sulphur of Euro low-sulphur diesel.

    austxjr
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    I reproduce in the following a link I have just posted at the 'Luxury Performance Sedans' here in Edmund's Forums.

    http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/

    According to it, the best new engines this year are

    1. BMW 5-litre V10 (M5, M6) 251 points

    2. Ferrari 4.3-litre V8 (F430) 146

    3. Toyota 3.3-litre Hybrid (Lexus RX400h) 133

    4. Porsche 3.8-litre (911) 130

    5. BMW Diesel 3-litre Twin-Turbo (535d) 121

    6. Honda 3-litre Hybrid (Accord) 90
  • I am originally from France. I have been in the States since a few month (U of MN).
    Just before leaving France, I was driving my dad's car (Golf IV, 130hp + chip = 150) behind a new 5 series somewhere in the north of France. I thought it was a 530D, "the usual" (in France) (a great car anyway). But it wasn't, It was the brand new 535D!, I couldn't believed it! I was the first time I saw a 535D...and the last time... :cry:
    The engine is a bi-turbo, this is great but this is not an innovation...the real innovation is the the fact that the turbos are in "series": the smaller one is blowing into the bigger one. BMW is the first to introduced this technology on the market.
    I know some people working in the diesel department of a great german manufacturer....the "Diesel War" between the german manufacturers has just begun...In a couple a year from now (maybe next year?), we will see some AMAZING and INSANE diesel engines...

    Wait and see :D

    PS: This website site is great!
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    "In a couple a year from now (maybe next year?), we will see some AMAZING and INSANE diesel engines..."

    I just hope we see them here (usa)!
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    I know that the diesel engines over there in Europe are just great, so I really hope that we can get some over here. I hope that the German luxury car makers (BMW, Benz, Audi) bring over their smaller diesels for the C, A4, and 3-Series. That would excite the market for diesels. Isn't Acura talking about a possible TSX diesel?
  • I agree, that would be great...for the german manufacturers but not for the US manufacturers...

    I don't even need to say that I am 100% for diesel engines. Someone said that in the UK, 45% of the car sold are diesel...in France it's not 45%...it's 90%...and PSA (Peugeot) makes more diesel engines than any other car manufacturer in the world. I have been driving diesel cars for 10 years and diesel powered machines for almost 20 years (Deere and CAT diesel engines rock!!!). For me, gas it's just for bikes and sports vehicules, the rest is better to drive with a diesel engine.

    BUT I don't see the point in having a diesel engine in a luxury car or vehicule. If one can afford a 100000$ car (like the TouaregV10), does he worry about the gas price and the mileage? I don't think so. I think he worries more about the comfort, the silence, high HP and RPM engine...
    Why do the german manufacturer are putting some much money in designing diesel engines for the luxury cars? Maybe they are trying to create a new niche market ? Where are the customers for those kind of cars and SUVs ? In Europe? I know it's all about diesel in Europe but this is not the kind of car that anybody can afford. No, the market is here, the customers are in the US (remember why Porsche decided to go for the Cayenne...).
    In the US, it's all about gas engine. Rich people want something different, something exotic: "You want the model with the V8 gas engine but we have a model even more expensive than this one, the one with the V10 diesel engine..." I am sure they I have those thoughts in mind in Stuttgart, Neckarsulm and Munchen. Why build such big engines if it's not for the US market (and its numerous rich customers) ? Because it's very unlikely that VW is going to sell hundreds and hundreds of their TouaregV10 in Europe, it's rather Touraeg R5 and V6. I think the emission standards are not a big deal (even the Californian standards), they already know how to "solve" the problem (Peugeot and their particule filters already have the solution...).
    What are they waiting for? Maybe I am totally wrong. Maybe they are having fun in making bigger and bigger engines. "You made a V8 diesel engine, I am gonna make a V10 engine...You made a V10 engine, I am gonna made a V12..."
    My toy is bigger than yours :P
  • I agree to the fact that they (german car makers) should import the diesel versions of their smaller model.

    I have just realized that VW is just importing the lower HP version of their 1.9L and 2.0L TDI (around 100hp)! Why don't they import the 130, 150 (1.9L) and 140hp version (2.0L) of those engines. Emission standards ?
    Because there is a HUGE difference between the 100-115hp versions and the 130-140-150hp versions. The first ones are quiet....the second ones are pure FURRY. You wouldn't believe it's the same block! The difference is the same between the Audi V6tdi 155-163hp and the 180hp version of the same engine.
    My dad (in France) has a Golf IV TDI 130hp, 6 speed (MatchII, latest version) upgraded with a german chip (inexpensive, 70euros for the injector-pump version, more for the older version, easy to install, great stuff) that gives more punch (more torque than power) when driving on the 5th or 6th. It's almost like driving a BMW330D or a A4180TDI: you are cruising at 60mph on the highway, you push the throttle down and handfull of seconds after you are at 120mph...still on the same gear :blush:
    It's like being pushed by a huge catapult that seems to keep pushing for ever...only a diesel engine can do that (unless you have a gas engine that goes up to 9000rpm and more: M5, S2000, Modena,etc... but the price isn't the same :cry: ). Anyway, just to tell that the 130-150hp versions by far the best versions : brutal, sharp I like those engines. What's more, you have got better mileage with the 130-150hp versions than the 100-115hp versions (between 5 and 5.5 liters/100km on highway). No, there is no mistake... ;)
    I drove the new Passat 2.0L TDI, the engine is basically the same as the 1.9L version but not as brutal as the 1.9L, they changed that because many people complained about that. Surprisingly, the new engine is more noisy :confuse:
    But it's a great car, for sure a best-seller in Europe. They announce a 170hp version of the 2.0L engine. Toyota has just launched a 170hp version of its 4 cylinder engine on the Avensis. Round one, fight!

    ;)
  • I live in the UK and thought I'd just add my experience of the new 535d tonight !

    I've not actually driven one... no I was driving a TVR Griffith 400, (4 litre V8 UK two seater spots car, for those that don't know). I exited a roundabout onto a short 1/4 mile section duel carriageway. I noticed the 535d badge on the new BMW infront of me as I pulled out to overtake. Now I gave the TVR everything it had to 6k red line in 2nd & 3rd and yes I got past and maybe just over a car & a half length infront over that 1/4 mile.

    I'd have been impressed if it were a petrol BMW that kept with me but amazed it was so quick. The TVR is also slightly tweaked over a standard 400 so performance is somewhere between a 400 & a 430 in reality. Of course I had the better seat & the nicer sound track, but I bet the BMW driver had a equally big smile. Alas the TVR isn't mine I was repairing the exhaust for a friend while he was on holiday. I've been driving diesels for a long time and remember unbelievably slow slugs like the ford Granada & Peugeot 604 turbo diesels. I currently drive a 1996 Audi A6 Avant 2.5 TDI (140bhp 5cyl), which is both economical, (50mpg average with some care), and adequate performance wise. I will however look out for a 535d estate, (wagon), in 5 or so years when they reach my price point ;)
  • And they are talking about a 335D and a 540D... :surprise: :blush:
    Those engineers from Germany are mad :)
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    I drive a 530d and—in addition to the fact that its max. speed and cruise speed have nothing to envy to, say, those of a 530i—the rocket you feel you are driving when you press the accelerator from 2,000 r•m on is amazing. A 530d has much more punch than a similar (or higher) HP-powered gas engine. This is one reason to prefer a diesel over a gas engine even at the level of a 5-Series. In particular if you must drive along not only highways but also mountain roads. It is not the speed but the acceleration what matters there when overtaking a slower vehicle.

    The mileage you get with diesels is another reason. Specially here, in Europe, where the fuel prices can reach the moon in a few time. Nobody disdains cheaper journeys no matter he/she drives a small car or a luxury performance car. A 5-Series or similar is not a Ferrari, in any case.

    Then, a diesel engine usually endures more mileage or more years in good condition. For this reason, resale prices are higher for diesel powered cars, it including those of the high-level segment, here in the UE.

    Finally, there is silence and no vibrations in a high-end diesel-powered car nowadays.

    Those are the reasons supporting my crossing the line from gas to diesel when I bought my 530d one year ago. I was a gas car driver until then. The only thing I regret sometimes is the noise of a good gas engine. That of the diesel is always more bronco. My family and I still drive a gas Mini Cooper—so funny and useful! :shades: But there was no comparable diesel engine there! ;)

    Regards
  • I am a diesel lover and user since 1995. I always knew there was something missing on diesel engines but I didn't know what it was until BMW came with the idea of the twin turbo (535D)!!! That's what is missing on diesel engines... power on top!
    I hope that other car makers are going to follow BMW and really build same serious sports car based on diesel. The era of gasoline car ends with electronic injection, it's hard to say but it's true. The new M3 engine, for example is good, it was "the best engine of the year" in 2000something, but is not as fun as the old carburator. Actually it's quite boring.
    It would be nice to have a Z4d with the new 535D engine, or a V12d on the 7 series or see WV using what BMW has done with the 535D.
    What a shame that petroleum engine are about to end when a new diesel chapter is starting.
  • I am a diesel lover and user since 1995. I always knew there was something missing on diesel engines but I didn't know what it was until BMW came with the idea of the twin turbo (535D)!!! That's what is missing on diesel engines... power on top!
    I hope that other car makers are going to follow BMW and really build same serious sports car based on diesel. The era of gasoline car ends with electronic injection, it's hard to say but it's true. The new M3 engine, for example is good, it was "the best engine of the year" in 2000something, but is not as fun as the old carburetor. Actually it's quite boring.
    It would be nice to have a Z4d with the new 535D engine, or a V12d on the 7 series or see WV using what BMW has done with the 535D.
    What a shame that petroleum engine are about to end when a new diesel chapter is starting.
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