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BMW Z4 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,041
    Someone might be able to tell you tomorrow.. ;)

    They don't let this out ahead of time... and, really.. it has no effect..

    If they do end the incentives, every dealer will report any Z4 in stock as "sold", and collect the incentive.. So, his cost is the same...

    The only downside, if this happens, is the maintenance and warranty clock start running on those vehicles... So, you should still be able to get the same deal on the car... but, you might be giving up a few weeks or months of warranty, depending on how long after that date you buy..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • bmrbmr Posts: 3
    thanks kyfdx. your a great help on this forum to everyone.
  • dtwicksdtwicks Posts: 7
    BUMP
    I am looking at a Fully loaded (Sport, Premium, Heated Seats, Automatic, Xenon, No NAV) Merlot at a local dealer in So Cal. 9K miles. After about an hour of negotiating the dealer said the best offer he can make is $32.4. Is this a fair price or should I offer lower.
  • bmrbmr Posts: 3
    Well, my first buying experience over the internet has been less than fulfilling. Seems that all of the web sites offering quotes are nothing more than a glorified way for the dealerships to get sales leads. I had several dealerships email me a form letter back saying 'Hi, we are here for you and please stop in and see us.' The follow-up's were about the same. Apparently, they don’t even read the information on the car you are looking for. Be prepared for the telephone calls. "Hi, my name is______. Call me and we can set up an appointment. I hate to be rude and not acknowledge their efforts, but after returning the first 2 calls and hearing the same message left on the answering machine by another 3, I decided not to. Also, forget any type of quote over the phone. The pressure was on to get me into the showroom. (Note: I live in PA, and work in MD. The nearest dealership is a 50 miles round trip from home. MD is an 80 mile round trip each day. To visit a couple of dealers, I could easily rack up a couple hundred miles. The internet quote seemed like a good idea. Save time, work at home on the pricing and narrow down the decision, and save gas money too).

    Anyway, I did receive one message from a dealership that promised to give me a quote. I returned the call.

    Typical salesman. What I was told:
    1. The Z4 is an in-demand car bringing full invoice price.
    2. The Dealer incentive is cash to the dealership to sell the cars, not intended as a pass thru to the customer.
    3. TMV pricing is a dream.
    4. BMW provides no discounts from the invoice to the dealership.
    5. He called on his personal cell phone, not the dealers business phone. (Remember this point)

    I pointed out
    1. The Z4 isn't as in demand as he thought. Otherwise, BMW wouldn’t be offering a $4,500 incentive on the 3.0. It’s the incentive that is attracting the buyers.
    2. If the dealer is getting $4,500 to attract customers, I want my fair share. And, since I'm the one buying the car, I want the lions share and then some.
    3. I doubt edmunds makes up its numbers.
    4. If R____l BMW isn't getting a discount from, BMW, then it isn't serving its customers well and will soon go out of business from its competition.

    Haggling over, I advised the salesman I had no trade, had been pre-approved for a loan, and was ready to buy. 5 minutes over the phone, and a half hour of paperwork, and he could make an easy $1,000. Lets talk numbers. Only one, and it should be a good one.

    Well, I got the Z4 (3.0, premium package, automatic, heated seats, windscreen and floor mats, MSRP $43,198) for $39,800. I thought still too much, but the colors and option package I wanted were going to be a little rough to find (Hint: check all the dealer sites for their inventory).

    Several phone calls were traded, all on his personal cell phone. I asked why he wasn’t at the dealership, he always indicated he was coming or going.
    Sold, as long as he could find the vehicle. He did, and we agreed to split the towing costs. I gave him a credit card deposit. That was on a Friday, the day before the incentive ended. On Saturday, he called back.. He was arranging to trade for the car and wanted some information from me (Why was'nt this done on Friday? He said someone had been looking at it at the other dealership and they wouldn't release it). Ok, I gave him my name, address, phone, etc. But when it got to Social Security Number and Driver's license, I said no. I would provide that information on Monday when I came in to settle on the car. Besides, not that I will ever give that information out to someone I haven't even met over the phone, I don’t know why he would need it if I was obtaining the financing and would have a check in hand at the dealership. The deposit should hold the car.

    He wasn’t please but said okay, I'll call you when I get hold of the car. Sunday, no call. Monday morning I call the credit card company to see if the deposit charge was made and at the agreed upon amount. No charge was made to the card. Monday at 12:00 I called him. Very evasive: well I don’t know if we can get it, it might have been sold, I'm on vacation this week, but I'll work on it….I'm always working anyway, I sell 200 cars a year. I might be able to find one, but it will have more options and cost more. The dealer incentive is over you know. Its too late to book this for the close of the sales month. Yep, an absolute t**d. Fine, call me tonight with the final price and I'll be in tomorrow to pay for it.

    Well, its now past the dealer's closing time and still no phone call.

    So much for my first internet buying experience.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,041
    dtwicks.. I posted your info here: Real World Trade-In Values

    Click the link... subscribe to that discussion, and Terry will be along in a day (or three) to give you an answer..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,041
    We have an answer..

    See here: RWTIV

    He valued it as non-CPO, so just add about $1500 to his numbers... He seems to think your price is very good.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • Been doing this over the phone, so I don't have all the particulars. All I have is the overall picture. 2005 Z4 3.0 (new, not demo): MSRP=$48,034, 2-year lease at $339/mo with $3000 down + $489 dealer fee, $825 bank acquisition, taxes, first month payment, tags, license transfer.
    Thanks.
  • zedfourzedfour Posts: 3
    This forum has been very helpful. Just want to share my $0.02 and hopefully help others who are thinking of purchasing used.

    2003 Z4 3.0 titanium silver metallic with Sport, Premium, Convenience packages. ~12k miles. $31850 from an independent dealer. Car was detailed and is very clean (still has the new car smell). This is in the SF bay area.

    kyfdx, do you think this was a good deal?
  • Don't give up on an internet purchase. I live in Massachusetts and I dealt with New Country Motors in Hartford,CT. I had a wonderful experience. I had spent a great deal of time on the internet checking prices and dealer inventories. When I was finally ready to make a purchase, I had a price in my head and I knew of three dealers within 100 miles that had the vehicle that I wanted. When I asked for my price quote, only New Country replied. I had an email a day and a half later that had a solid quote and a date that the quote would expire. I immediately called the dealer to make an appointment to see the car. That afternoon, I visited the dealer and I was met by a member of the internet sales team (one person). We discussed the car and the price that was in the email was the price that I paid. There were no surprises!!! The price that I paid was considerable lower than the Edmunds TMV price. I was extremely happy and I would definitely use the internet again in the future. So, don't give up.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,041
    You really need to get a selling price to see if the lease is good.. Also, what is the mileage allowance? 10K, 12K or 15K per year?

    A few things stand out..

    1) $3000 down... Not a good idea to put extra money down on a lease... It just makes the payment look lower.. it doesn't really save any money..

    2) $489 dealer fee? GEEEEZZZZ .... that adds $20/mo to the cost of a 24 month lease..

    3) $825 acq. fee.... base fee is $625.. they are marking it up for extra profit..

    By the time you add everything up, the "real" cost of this 24 month lease is about $510/mo. + tax... That isn't too bad for a $48K car...

    Another thing.. MSRP of $48,034? I've never seen a BMW sticker price that didn't end in $5 or $0...

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • Thanks for the help, kyfdx. This is the first time I am considering leasing a car, always bought for cash before. And, now with looking at the" added" costs, I may go back to my old ways.

    Perhaps the major point that comes thru to me from your analysis is that one doesn't take a lease before bagaining on the final selling price, eh? I the present case, the dealer called me with a "deal." He knew I was looking the previous month, and now he had some great for me. Of course, he didn't say that I could bargain for any of his cars and get a deal. As I've been doing the research, I find that the reason he said he had a deal was because BMW was continuing to give its dealers the $2500/$4500 incentives to move the Z4 2.5 and 3.0. And furthermore, the MF on the 2-year lease was half that of a 3-year lease, 0.001 and .002, respectively. So, for my next go around-at the end of the month, I'll stick with a 2.5 wih the equipment I want, work the $2500 off invoice and then see what selling price we can come up with. Once that is done, then we can talk leasing vs buying.

    BTW, given the MF differences between the 2 and 3 year leasing, and the differences in the residuals at 10K miles (66% vs 59%), and given that I arrive at a selling price that would be the same regardless of year's leasing, does the 2 year lease give me a better bang for my bucks than the 3 year lease? My only thoughts here are that leasing at 2 years forces me to pay a lot in "fees, etc" if I go to lease again after 2 years.

    Regards,
    Adam
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,041
    You have a good handle on it... The lower money factor on the 2 year lease is offset somewhat (or mostly) by the relatively small difference in residuals between the 2 year and 3 year lease (10%-12% is normal).

    Amortizing set fees like the acquisition fee and dealer fee over 2 years, instead of 3 years is also a negative for the two year lease...

    That said, the two year lease on this car is still a fairly good deal..

    There is nothing wrong with negotiating by payment, if you know the selling price, and can figure out how low they can go... But, if doing that, it is much easier if you negotiate monthly prices with only 1st payment, security deposit, title/license fees upfront.. All acq.fees, dealer fees, taxes, etc.. rolled into the payment..

    That will give you a true cost to lease the car, and makes it easier to evaluate vs. a straight purchase..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • Hi kyfdx,

    So far, so good. You really have been a great help as I climb the leasing learning curve.

    In trying to figure out what the $ differences would be between a 2 and 3 year lease, I've picked the car I want, its accessories, and what I figure I can get it for. Then using a leasing formula, assuming $0 down (just to keep it easy and conceptual), I plugged in the MSRP (41,095), cap cost (36,123), the 2 and 3 year residual %s at 10K (66% and 59%, respectively), and the 2 and 3 year MFs (.001 and .002, resopectively), and arrived at cost/year figures of $5292/2 year and $5412/3 year (after getting the monthly fees or $441 and $451 for 2 and 3 year, respectively). So, as far as I can tell, if I am correct, there is $120 difference between these two leasing options...certainly, no big deal and quite interesting that the doubling of the MF on the longer lease really doesn't make a hell of difference when you now consider that all the other fees won't have to be repeated in 2 years, but can be carried out to 3 years.

    Hopefully, kyfdx, you can make sense of my ramblings and let me know if I've "got it."

    Thanks again,

    Adam

    Now what really gets me into going for a 3 year lease is that
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,041
    I get most of what you are saying... I'm just a little lost on the details, as it would entail me going back and checking all the numbers again...

    But, any costs you pay upfront (cap cost reductions, acquisition fees, etc.) will have the effect of making the 2 year lease look better than the 3 year lease.. Artificially so....

    I think, in essence.. that the two year and three year lease programs on this car are very similar... One school of thought: If you have a really good lease deal, it is more advantageous to take it for the longer period, as you may not find that good of a deal the next time.. even if the price is the same..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • I'm ready to buy but am willing to wait a couple of months if the 2006 models will be out then. But my dealer told me that the Z4 is on a Spring cycle and that the 2006's come out after March 06. Is he on the line? :confuse:

    Thanks.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,041
    I'm not sure of the exact month.. but, he is correct... they aren't coming out this Fall.. Definitely after the 1st of the new year...

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • peakpropeakpro Posts: 65
    I would not expect then until feb 06 at the earlist
  • Thanks for the fast answer guys. I guess the 2005 Z4 will be in my near term future now. :shades:
  • I'm also in the market for a Z4, and was hoping to do the dealing just before the 2006s come out. Of course, figuring that I would get the best deal then. But, as you know it is tough to wait. Nonetheless, if you are of the same mind, do you think that it really will make any $ difference getting one now or waiting until the 2006s arrive?
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,468
    I saw a pic of the Z4 coupe in one of the auto mags...looks great!

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • peakpropeakpro Posts: 65
    Last year I started looking for a Z4 around this time and finally bought inl October and got a great deal on a Z4. There was a nice supply and had my pick of several cars.

    This year I am looking for another Z4 and the supply is no where near as great as last year. Be careful waiitng too long. You may not find what you really want.
  • Yeah, I know what you mean. I was thinking of maybe giving it a go at the end of this month. But, then again, this is probably too early...assuming that there will be some cars around. Actually, as I am looking for 2.5, I think I may have a better chance than if I wanted a 3.0.

    BTW, when you bought last October, were there any incentives?
  • I seem to be in a similar situation as you folks. I am looking for an used 04/03 model with low miles. Does anyone have any idea/experience with used car auto brokers (I am in N.California). I've heard from some friends that they get it at whole sale price from the lease returns to BMW for a flat fee. You thus end up paying way less than retail.
  • peakpropeakpro Posts: 65
    yes...

    I got 9k off a car on the lot that had 200 miles on it....
  • My Z4 had to be ordered from the factory because the combination of options that I was looking for was nowhere to be found on the lots anywhere in the US (literally!) and I was not willing to compromise:

    - 3.0
    - manual transition (no extra cost)
    - black top (no extra cost)
    - beige interior (no extra cost)
    - wood trim (no extra cost)
    - silver gray exterior
    - premium package
    - GPS
    - heated seats
    - hardtop prep
    - rubber mats

    MSRP - $47,293
    Paid - $40,490 cash (exluding tax and license plates)

    It took three weeks from the time that I placed the order to when the car actually arrived from the factory in late July. I'm very happy and my hair is now in a perpetual state of disarray :D
  • Looks like you di d good job. How does your buying price compare to the car's invoice price (before you had the dealer give you his $4500 incentive)?
  • $43,283 invoice
  • Good going. Looks like you paid the dealer about $1200 over the $4500 deducted. A very reasonable compromise...if I'm correct in my assumption that the dealer had the $4500 to give. If he didn't, then you got the the best deal I ever heard of.
  • $4.5K was part of the calculation. Depending on the dealer real cost structure (you never really know that) the profit was somewhere between $1.2K and $1.7K. My goal was to start with $1K and stay below $2K including everything like those pesky document processing fees (!?) and what not. I think I did achieved that. The $4.5K is why I had to do the deal on the beginning of the month to ensure that the manufacturing will deliver within the same month. That eliminated the dealer's risk of BMW not renewing the incentive for the next month (BMW makes a decision on a monthly basis) and therefore having to reneg on the deal. The incentive must be applied (apparently) when the car is sold and not when the deal is made.

    I was not able to close the deal with the dealer that I spent the most time with. Here is a quote from that experience for your amusement: "[...] it is my opinion that what you want, which is for me/us to make no money, is unreasonable. I invested A LOT of time with you and it may have cost me thousands at the end. My first priority is to take care of my family and I can't do that if I'm not earning an income [...]". I guess for that dealer no profit is a better deal than some profit (sales volume is part of the equation) - weird.
  • Thanks for the details, Staryjary. Right now I'm pondering if I should wait until the end of September to make a deal on a car in the lot. Of course, I'm betting on two things: one is that the dealer incentive (be it $2500 for the 2.5 or $4500 for the 3.0) will still be in effect, and that by buying at the end of the fiscal quarter the dealer will be more interested in moving cars.

    Before reading you post, I didn't even think of ordering a new car. Also, I didn't realize the a new car could be ordered and delivered within one month's time. So, now I'm also thinking that maybe I should try to order a new car so that I get what I want and don't have to hassle of what the dealer wants to push on me from one of his cars on the lot.

    As I come from sales, I can appreciate what your salesperson was saying/feeling. But, he was just using a ploy to tweak your sympathy to buy from him. However, in the end it is our bottom line that counts...not the salesperson's. If they really want the sale then they have to accomodate us.
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