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BMW Z4 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • kh08kh08 Posts: 7
    There are a couple of dealers that still have 04's left in both the z4 and 330i. I saw they had incentives way back and was wondering if the BMW gave them to the dealers already. What would be a good price for the z4 with just a pwr top or a 330i with the perf.pkg.? Could I go lower than the 04 inv. minus the incentive? Thanks.
  • ritsrits Posts: 3
    Guys,

    I am planning to buy used 2003 Z4. The car has 19K miles on it plus premium package. I am not sure whether it is premium leather but it has red color leather seats. The color is SILVER.

    My offer is $25K. Its 2.5lt. Do you guys think I am making a reasonable offer or its high? If high the what should be me arguments?

    Thanks
    Rits
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,206
    Are you buying from a dealer or a private individual? From an individual, you might be able to go a little lower, but you'll be fighting their impressions of what their vehicle is worth...

    From a dealer, that sounds fair... If the interior is RED, it is definitely leather.. BMW doesn't make red leatherette..

    The arguments for a lower price? BMW has put massive incentives on the Z4, every year it has been out.. This lowers the re-sale value of the used one..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • ritsrits Posts: 3
    kyfdx
    Thanks for the message.
    It is frm a private seller? So, do you think considering all the discount which BMW is giving on new vehicle...$25K is a okay price?

    Thanks
    Ritesh
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,206
    I'm not a very good appraiser of used cars.. I can't see, touch or drive the one you are looking at.. But, the later the model, I can at least compare it to the price of a new one, and see what kind of value you are getting..

    Is he asking $25K? I'll tell you... privately selling a used car in the $20K and up market is tough... He'll have a hard time doing that... If he is asking that, I think I'd hit him up at $23K, and see where it goes... I can guarantee you he'll come down at least $1000, if he is serious about selling the car..

    Go to RWTIV and put in a complete description of the car.. Terry will be along in a day or so, and give you a good private sale price for it.. Be sure to follow the template at the bottom of the thread, and give a complete description, including location, and that you are considering buying it from a private seller.. He is a dealership owner/used car buyer, and knows much more about values than I do...

    RWTIV

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • jlettie1jlettie1 Posts: 9
    Too bad that the Z-4 does not offer a spare tire. The run-flat tires are premium tires that last about 10,000 miles. They are noisey and most garages do not want to repair them. When you contact the tire manufactures they do not stand by the product. The want you to contact the dealer. The dealer claim that there nothing they can do to assist you. Everybody passes the buck. This applies also for the Nissan 350Z, Chrysler Crossfire and other manufactures who offer run-flat tires. The are not reliable or possibly safe.
  • peakpropeakpro Posts: 65
    Buy a set of regular tires, carry a can of fix a flat and air compressor and a AAA card.

    problem solved.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,206
    Get used to it.... All BMWs have, or will have runflats.. and all other premium brands are headed that direction..

    What are your alternatives?

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • john72john72 Posts: 1
    I just purchased a 2005 Z-4. No floormats. Dealer said floormats did not come with the car. I thought this wierd as I had them as standard on the 530i. BMW USA said they were standard and not option. Before I go back I would like to hear from others as whether they came with your Z4. Thanks.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,206
    Don't know about Z4s, but I know they are not standard on the 3-series..

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • james_ocjames_oc Posts: 8
    Hi kyfdx,

    I am planning to lease a 05' 3.0, my friend (actually a former employee of mine) is an indep. auto broker and has stated that after shopping around and negotiating with the dealers, he was able to secure a deal. Basically the deal is the vehicle I had specified, 3.0, sports package, xenons, auto top, heated seats at 7k below MSRP, 2500 down, 12k milage alloance/year at 495$/mo. including taxes.

    I have also seen your previous advice in this forum that 7k below MSRP is a good deal,
  • james_ocjames_oc Posts: 8
    what do you think of this offering?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,206
    $7000 off MSRP sounds good.. Hard to know if the lease price is good, without knowing the MSRP.

    Also, is it a $2500 downpayment, plus 1st payment, security, etc.. Or is $2500 the entire amount due at signing?

    A good deal is all in the details... What would be a good deal on a $42K car, wouldn't be so great on a $45K car..

    $2500 due at signing is a big difference from $2500 down, plus other charges for a total of $4300 due at signing..

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • vizzinivizzini Posts: 6
    I'm going z4 shopping next week and was curious what current money factors and residuals are for 15k/36mo leases for a 2005 z4 3.0. Anyone have recent data?

    Thanks.
  • james_ocjames_oc Posts: 8
    Hi kyfdx,

    Thanks for the response, a little more details....

    The MSRP is $45,600 and total deal negotiated is roughly a little over $7k off MSRP
    $2500 total due at signing.
    $495/Month (including tax) for 36 months (12k miles/year)
    Sterling Gray/Black Interior
    3.0 Steptronic Trans., Sports Package, Automatic Top, Xenons, Heated Seats

    Thanks in advance!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,206
    Not knowing your exact tax rate, or what "fees" are included in your $2500, the payment looks pretty good... That MSRP minus $7K gives a lease payment of $468/mo.+tax... So, it looks like you are on the right track.... I would have no problem with that deal..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • ragazzoncragazzonc Posts: 4
    Hey everyone--
    I really wish I'd discovered this site and all the good advice BEFORE I bought my Z4--so much great info and in advance thanks to the folks with the knowledge for helping out the ignorant like me. I love the car. I'm increasingly unsure about the deal I got.

    So after doing some test drives I decided I wanted a Z4. The MSRP for the car I wanted was $46,795 and they said they could give it to me for 40042.91 which, from the research I'd done seeked like a great deal (though now it seems like it's good but not great). According to the dealer this was the "Duke discount." (I work at Duke.) They'd also throw in the wind screen and mats if I'd buy that day. I didn't bargain hard, not my personality, but was happy enough and eager to have the car. Now that I'm not so happy I'm mustering my confrontation skills and considering discouraging my colleagues at Duke from ever going to the dealership I dealt with. Let me explain and please let me know if I'm getting hot and bothered for nothing.

    I met with the finance guy after agreeing on the price with the dealer. He pushed leasing as an option hard and I ended up buying the sales pitch. I was obviously confused. Now I'm wondering if, at this point, I was scammed... here's what happened. I'd love thoughts on the numbers, to begin with, and then also advice on what if anything there is to do, if folks care to offer that too, if indeed I've been had.

    So at a certain point, the finance guy started talking about "Silent Security" and 'Hendrick Auto Care" and I said, emphatically, that I did not want them. He said 'You haven't heard the price yet" and I repeated that I didn't want them. He said "What if I told you they were for free?" What was I to say to that? So I agreed...

    Then when I got home I noticed something... the price we had negotiated was 40,042.91 but on the lease document the agreed-upon value of the car was $1,000 dollars more than this. I called the finance guy who of course didn't return my call and then went in to the dealership. The head of the finance department spoke with me and his explanation was that the guy who had made the deal with me had raised the price of the vehicle but discounted the money factor to make up for the raised price, thus in effect giving me those items for free. He said that the money factor I got (.00215) was better than the standard of .00255 or something like that, which from what I can tell from reading this list is not true. (If this matters--I live in North Carolina and I have excellent credit.) This is the deal I got:

    MSRP 46,795
    LEV% 56%
    LEV 25,205
    Selling price 41,042.91 (we'd agreed to 1,000 less than this)
    Term 36 months
    45,000 miles
    money factor .00215
    I put $3,000 down
    of which 1,935 went to cap reduction
    aquisition fee was 625
    my base monthly rental is 517.52
    and the tax rate is 3% adding 15.53 to the monthly payment which comes out to 533.05

    Thanks again in advance for any input! I'll look forward to a time when I'll have some wisdom to share.

    Best,
    Marc
    aka
    ragazzonc
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,206
    The good news? You got jerked around a little, and wasted some money, but not a large amount. You are still leasing a $47K car for under $600/mo.. And your original negotiated price was decent..

    Silent security? What is that? window etching, maybe? Virtually useless..

    Hendrick Auto Care? What does that include? Might be good for a Honda, but BMW already covers all of the maintenance.. Not sure what they could give you extra..

    What went wrong?:

    1) You should have known the base money factor going in.. If you knew it was .0020, then they couldn't have added the other crap "for free", by lowering their inflated money factor..

    2) You should have had them apply part of your $3000 upfront to a security deposit, instead of cap cost reduction.. This may have raised your payment by $6/mo, but you would have received $550 back from the deposit at the end of the lease. A net gain of $334. That is why the money factor is .00215, instead of .0020.. They had to bump it to waive the security deposit.

    But, overall, you did a decent job..

    If everything had gone perfectly...
    Original negotiated price
    No $1000 bump for useless crap
    $550 of your upfront used to make a security deposit
    Base MF of .0020

    If all that happened, your payment would be about $23/mo. lower, and you would have $550 coming back at lease end..

    As you can see, not the end of the world... Think about how a truly uninformed buyer might have been taken.. $2K off MSRP, bumped up rates, $2000 of useless add-ons, etc.. Someone that didn't know what they were doing, could easily be paying $750/mo. to lease the same car..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • ragazzoncragazzonc Posts: 4
    Thanks kyfdx ... I feel somewhat better now, and will enjoy the car more, which is crucial, knowing that it's not as bad as it might have been though still miffed that I'm paying for the thing I emphatically said I didn't want. As usual your knowledge is impressive and I appreciate your taking the time to go through this so carefully. And I'll know better next time around.
    RagazzoNC
  • james_ocjames_oc Posts: 8
    Hi kyfdx,

    Thanks for the advice, I actually was shopping around and had another dealer quote me the following...the only difference would be the addition on the premium package...what do you think?

    MSRP 48545
    Selling Price 40655.58
    Residual 58% of MSRP = 28156.10
    12000 miles per year
    The total cap cost of the car (amount financed before reduction of residual value) is $39988.00
    Money Factor 0.00215
    2500 Total Drive-Off Down Payment
    $475.17 + 7.75% O.C. sales tax = $512 per month total x 35 months
  • ragazzoncragazzonc Posts: 4
    With kyfdx's excellent information in hand, I got in touch with the dealership's management about what seemed to me the sneaky way I ended up paying for two things I had insisted during negotiations I didn't want (window etching and and treatment to help keep the car clean). I noted that I had thought of having an alarm installed as well as the CD changer (I haven't gone IPOD/mp3 yet) and suggested that I would be content to leave the terms of the lease as they were if they installed those items in lieu of the two things I really wasn't interested in paying for. The Dealership management was extremely apologetic about the situation, in essence agreeing that the practice of their finance man had been unacceptable (he claimed to give me something for free when it clearly was not--I had been suspicious of the claim of a "freebie" but he'd insisted it was in fact without cost to me). They agreed to install the CD-changer and the alarm for the amount I had been charged for the etching and protective treatment AND to give me the etching and protective treatment (hey, at least it'll amount to a free car wash which I already need). I'll be better informed next time I go in to negotiate for a car but I'm content with this end result. Thanks again kyfdx. If you're ever in the area of Durham, NC I'd be happy to buy you a drink (or a coffee or a juice or a bottled water)!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,206
    Wow... Good deal.. Anything you can get after the fact, is just a bonus. Enjoy your car..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,206
    Your $2500 upfront payment probably looks something like this?

    $512 1st payment
    $625 acquisition fee
    $667 cap cost reduction
    $100 tax on CCR and ACQ.fee

    That leaves about $600 more dollars for registration, etc.. Seems like that may be about $300 too high... I bet there is some padding in there.. Maybe a little pure profit from a "document fee", or something like that...

    It appears that it doesn't include a security deposit, or the money factor would be .0020...

    Overall, this looks like a great lease, with maybe only $300 of extras.. but, considering the great purchase price, I wouldn't quibble, but I would structure it a little differently..

    $48,545 MSRP
    $40,656 selling price
    $41,281 Cap cost (selling price + $625 acq.fee)
    Residual 58% for 3yr/36K
    MF .0020 (base rate with security deposit)
    Payment: $504/mo.+tax = $543/mo.

    Due at signing: 1st pymt ($543), security deposit ($550), Registration and other fees ($300? or their $600). Total: $1400-$1700. Plus you'll receive the $550 security deposit back at the end of the lease..

    Comparison to their structure: $800 less upfront + $550 back at end of lease
    36 pymts. X $26/mo.higher.. $1350 minus $936 = $414 (more money in your pocket).

    Restructuring the lease that way saves you about $400 over the life of the lease, and gives them the exact same gross profit..

    It is a great deal, either way... If you can get a look at the fee breakdown, and pull another $200-$300 out of the deal, so much the better..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • opencarsopencars Posts: 7
    I have been following the last few posts and appreciate the comprehensive info on leasing. I am about to lease a 3.O MSRP $48,545, the same as the last post. The only question I cannot get answered is--- if I trade an owned vehicle ( probable trade value $24,000 ) will it it offset the sales tax. In New Jersey rate is 6% . Total tax due about $1100.00. Any help is appreciated. Paul
  • james_ocjames_oc Posts: 8
    kyfdx,

    Thank you for the detail and breakdown, it sheds light on some questions I have been thinking about. I will try to have them adjust the Base MF to include security deposit, wish me luck I am going to go into the dealership hopefully tommorrow!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,206
    I can't speak specifically for NJ, but in general, you won't get an offset on the sales tax.

    The car you are trading is in your name, but the car you are leasing will be purchased by the leasing bank.

    Fortunately, tax is fairly low on leases in NJ.. Just 6% of the depreciation portion of the lease. But, I doubt you'll get any offset. You might call your local DMV for clarification, though.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • naderz4naderz4 Posts: 2
    I know that the $4500 incentive on Z4 continues on, or let's say I know it is on till end of June. Anyone has any info. on whether it will continue on or stop after June? And, any info. on when it may turn to $6500?

    Thanks,
  • james_ocjames_oc Posts: 8
    Hi again - it apprears that this particular vehicle is the last one on the lot, I originally looked at it 2 weeks ago and it's still there, which I believe resulted in the great purchase price. As you suggested I asked him about the "pad" and getting base MF to .002, here is the response...

    "Our company policy is to charge $825 for the lease acquisition fee. $625 of it goes to BMW Financial Services. $200 goes to our dealership's finance department for processing the paperwork for you. This is probably where you found the $200-$300 discrepancy in your calculations. This is non-negotiable. If you wish to place a refundable security deposit, then you can waive the rate-adder on the money factor from .00215 to .00200. The security deposit will be $550. So, you add $2500 and $550 and your total drive-off then becomes $3050. This lowers your monthly payment to $500.65 including tax."

    * After asking them to lower base MF/add the secuirty deposit, I received this reply...

    "With $2500 TOTAL DRIVE-OFF (including refundable security deposit of $550, so really, you're paying $1950 drive-off before security deposit), your monthly payments are $480.31 + tax = $517.53 including tax for 3 year lease at 12000 miles per year on approved credit. This is figured at a money factor of .00200. Cap cost is still at 40655.58. Residual is still at 58% = 28156.10."

    What do you think? Thanks again...

    - J
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,206
    They seem very upfront..

    It is a good selling price.. and they are using the base money factor.. I'm not going to blow a good deal over $200..

    If it were me, I'd ask them for $1500 drive off, including a security deposit. It shouldn't matter to them, as they'll just add the $1000 into the cap cost.. That will add almost exactly $32/mo to the payment, including tax..

    Result: $1500 drive-off.. Payment of $550/mo..

    You have done really well, and you have a dealership that doesn't play with the numbers, every time you ask for something.. IF this is the car you want, I'd jump on it.. That is a lot of car for $550/mo.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • james_ocjames_oc Posts: 8
    Thank you so much again kyfdx. I picked up my vehichle today at 9PM, the BMW dealership was closing another deal when I came in and they ended up staying until 11:00 to finish up my lease. Overall a very pleasurable experience as they did what they agreed upon...the information you gave me was very helpful and going in the dealership I felt very well informed.

    The deal ended up exactly as you suggested, I planned to put zero down but with the trade (they gave me exactly Blue Book Value) I put $600 of it into the drive off, $550 into the security deposit and the rest ($350) into DMV, Registration Fees for a drive-off of $1500 and payment of $548/month.

    It was great - 8k off sticker and then he broke it down on the screen exactly as you described, even to the point that he explained that the dealership loss 900 on the deal...included Z4 mats, hats and Z4 license plate frames.

    Thank you so much again for all your help, you rock man - rock!
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