Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
First, gap insurance does not pay the difference between net cap cost and residual (end of lease) value as topgun7 stated. It pays the difference, if any, between net cap cost (what is due to the lessor) and the current value of the car at the time of the loss (what the insurance company is going to pay out).
Since rhomsy reduced his net cap cost by giving the lessor $8000 up front, chances are that if he totalled the vehicle the gap insurance would never kick in. On a $30K Camry lease, the difference between the depreciated value of the vehicle at the time of the loss and what has been paid to the leasing company in monthly payments is not very likely to exceed $8000. But, I don't think he will get any of that $8000 back either. The insurance company will pay the lessor the depreciated value, and as far as I know the lessor is not obligated to refund anything to the lessee.
Which is why everyone counsels against making a big downpayment on a lease.
Mackabee
ps. yes I do work for a Toyota dealer and I have seen cases like yours where something has been worked out for the benefit of the customer. We tend to bend over backwards for customers but it seems you were just satisfied with what happened, left it at that and are now complaining.
Did they at least give you a decent long-term loaner?
After just scanning a few of the posts here I agree that people are throwing a lot of hate at you...for what? Because your new car is going to be in the shop for a month or so?
I'd be pissed too. I still don't understand why Toyota didn't issue a recall on every one of these v6 trannys and do the right thing from the beginning. Selling the cars and waiting for failures from customers seems like a bad idea.
Good luck.
1) What Toyota is obligated to provide under the warranty.
2) What Toyota is obligated to provide under the lease agreement.
1)Your methodology for making reparitions regarding warranty repairs would set a standard that no manufacturer could possibly follow. My understanding is that, contractually under their warranty obligation, Toyota is NOT required by law to even offer you either the extended warranty (which is indeed useless in your case), or one month's payment to cover the fact that you are not using the vehicle. They are obligated to make the repair, which they are doing.
2)You state yourself WHY, legally, ONE MONTH's payment is an appropriate sum. "The causation is toyota breaching the lease agreement by not providing a functional car for the first month of the lease." So, if Toyota's "CRIME" is breach of the lease to the duration of ONE MONTH, as you YOURSELF state, then why should you expect their "PUNISHMENT" to be equal to two month's payment? For all intents and purposes, it seems that their breach of lease agreement will indeed be no greater than one month, and yet, you feel you are entitled to two because YOU made the CHOICE to use Cap Cost reduction as a method of lowering your monthly payment. To me, THAT is flawed logic.
I never stated that your excessive Cap Cost payment 'caused' your transmission problem, not even close. I did state, however, that high Cap Cost payments on leases have inherent risks associated with them, this type of situation being included among those myriad risks. There was no implication of causation.
Certainly, Toyota had an issue with initial Camrys and their 6 speed automatic transmissions. It is unfortunate that you have experienced this problem, and it is further unfortunate that you are upset with Toyota's response, as you seem to be among the few who are displeased with the handling of the repair.
That said, trust that I, sir, find your logic of individual entitlement equally as scary as you find mine especially when you YOURSELF have stated that Toyota's breach of lease agreement is to the duration of ONE MONTH, the exact payment duration the company has expressed willingness to absorb.
I hope that Toyota makes right by you, I just think that you need to understand your expectation and the services with which Toyota is required to provide you by law are likely not at equilibrium.
~alpha
Another way of looking at 'buying down' your payment is this:
A typical lease payment for 48 mo's would be $375/mo or about $18,000 in total. By putting down $8000 you have prepaid the first 21 months of lease payments. The remainder of $10000 is just divided over the 48 mo's.
Either way you are spending $18,000. It's just that TFS has your money and it's working for them not you.
~alpha
Yea, not only that, I'm really beginning to wonder about the validity of the 160 cars. Think about it, how many of the 1000's of people who've already bought Camrys read this forum? Yet we've seen several with this tranny problem in these threads.
I also understand we've seen several V6 owners here w/o the problem, but still the statistics make me wonder.
I was planning on getting a V6 this summer, but the more I read the more gun-shy I become.
The cost to replace 160 transmissions is small compared to just one lawsuit from a purchaser getting into an accident from the transmission failing. One serious injury, is all it will take.
Okay, seriously, I don't get it either. One granny in her new 2007 v6 Camry smacks into a wall and Toyota will have a nice fat suit from Dewey Cheatem and Howe....
If Toyota were smart, they'd do the Tylenol thing: Recall 'em all, crush em and start over again. Hmmmm, then again, Toyota doesn't make mistakes, do they?
TOKYO — The president and CEO of Toyota Motor North America, accused last week in a sexual harassment lawsuit, is leaving the post, the automaker said Tuesday.
In response, the world's No. 2 automaker chose its first American as president of the region's operations.
Hideaki Otaka, 65, who had been scheduled to leave his post in June, has voluntarily left earlier.
It seems like there are issues with the new Camry that need to be explored. Let's talk about them here: 2007 Toyota Camry Woes. Come on over!
As for the difference in lease payments, How do you know what they are offering other people in a similar situation?
If they are offering to reimburse people for the time the car is out of service,that seems fair. You want to be reimbursed for more than you are paying while the car is out of service. That doesn't seem fair.
Doesnt' seem to be a big concern but I am wondering what will happen over time as water gets in this area and doesn't dry out or drain well. This is my first Toyota. Does anyone have an older Toyota with this type of design.
In two months likely this will be long forgotten, IMO. If Toyota believes ( knows? ) that 160 units were involved it has all the records so anything else on our part is purely the speculation of the uninformed.
There are intricacies in the information flow of a sale that doesn't allow Toyota to know for certain who actually has bought a specific VIN. Until if and when the actual owner reports this anomaly there is no sure way to know from their perspective. It also seemed that at least in two cases in Canada ( per TN ) that certain vehicles were stopped at the marshalling yard or dealer's lot.
Your rants are noted. It's been addressed in another forum and the ones involved ( not you ) seem to be pleased by how it's being handled. Now let's talk about the vehicle itself. If you don't like Toyota that's acceptable also, as I'm sure there is an appropriate forum.
So it seems the problem is not limited to the Camry.
See ya there!
I would like to read more on driving impressions from those who have bought the 2007 Camry. It will also be nice to read what they want most and wants improve on their new vehicle.
1. For the transmission problem, there is a very good resource in the - 2007 Toyota Camry Transmission Gear Snap Ring Issue: TMSUSA Responds
2. For problem/issues with the new Camry there is a - 2007 Toyota Camry Woes forum
Thank you to our host for all of this. We can focus on each issue and can be e a useful guide for those who are interested on the 2007 Camry.
FiloD
You can go and read about it yourself. They are not "supposed" problems.
I know they have the same engine, but let's let it go in this discussion.
Thanks.
I thought that this was relevant to the Camry thread b/c people are trying to figure out the source of the problem, and since Lexuses are manufactured in a different plants, the faulty transmissions may have been from the source supplier (Aisin in Japan, I think).
Wasn't aware that there was a dedicated "2007 Camry Woes" thread. Will post there.
The current grade for motor oil is SM but I'm not sure if that is good enough for the 07. Does anyone know?
I guess you better not use the dealership to change your oil (unless you bring in your own bottles)!
I noticed the IS350 has 306HP. I assumed it's the same basic engine as the Camry's. Is that true? If not, what did the engineers do to the IS to get the extra HP.
Mackabee :shades:
One question for you alpha, why would you rev a new engine up to the redline level on the tach?
Easy. Because I could, and wasn't going to purchase the car. Salesdude had nary a problem with it, so I did it... a coupla times. Once from rest, once in a 30-50 type move...
~alpha
Nice.
Dice Electronics Ipod integration kit (http://www.diceelectronics.com/ipod_integration.htm)
VAIS Technology Soundlinq SLI (http://www.vaistech.com/sli.html)
Simple charging cradle w/connection to the Aux in port (no control through radio, but simple and clean)
(http://www.tentechnology.com/products/products_flexibledock.php)
Can anyone comment on whether the products from Dice and VAIS products will work with the 2007 Camry, and if so what functions they will allow on the touchscreen?
Thanks -
Besides, had the salesperson an issue with it, I would not have done it, as stated, I asked first.
As if I'm the only one who's explored a vehicle's capabilities on a test drive...Please! For what it's worth, flooring a Toyota twice hardly constitutes as 'abuse'. Perhaps flogging a '99 Daewoo Leganza, as C/D did, and subsequently threw a rod, would be...
~alpha
My car came from the factory and was placed into my hands with 6 miles on it.
Why make the statement "because I wasn't going to purchase the car. . ." if you didn't think redlining the tach at least might constitute abuse of the engine? Of course you thought it might, but since you weren't buying, that's the next chump's problem.
Who knows, maybe the car you do buy will have been treated to the same test drive. Good luck!
~alpha
But seriously folks, redlining a car nowadays is no big deal. These engines are put through their paces at the factory before they are put in the car. If you think this is "abuse" you should see what they do to Porsches. I was privilidged to visit the factory in Stuttgard in 2003 and as soon as the car comes off the assembly line on it goes to the autobahn where there is no speed limits and yes they do rev'em up quite high. It was fun to watch as I stood outside the gate and Hans pulled out onto the street, burned some rubber and took off. That would be a nice job to have.
:shades:
Mackabee
Yes, I stated that nobody had test driven MY Sentra (my choice), but it should be known, since having passed the 1000mile break-in threshhold on that, I have frequently floored the vehicle in merging and highway driving. This is the way I drive.
Again, with all due respect, its a bit difficult to find a 'fully broken' in test drive unit. That said, it IS a test drive, and the purpose is to determine whether its performance- from acceleration to braking to seat comfort to stereo sound... you name your criteria... is acceptable to the individual. Were it so 'wrong' to floor the vehicle (which by the way, owing to its autotransmission, never placed the engine in a danger zone), certainly the salesperson, a mature, articulate professional- would have prevented me from risking the very machinery on which he places his monetary livelihood.
It seems as though folks on this thread feel I took my test drive Camry LE 4cylinder to the local drag strip and raced it all day long. Not the case. I floored the vehicle to redline a couple times during a test drive. That this is NOT the ideal way to treat the engine does not change the fact that I did NOTHING wrong, or illegal, nor did I place anyone in danger. I seriously doubt any ill consequences for the eventual owner of that vehicle, but even so- this is a Camry we are talking about for Pete's sake- the individual has the right and opportunity TO CHOOSE to take another vehicle with fewer miles, and presumably, fewer test drives.
Indeed, although it was not the practice at the dealership I visited, some do keep certain models as demonstrators to for the very reason of providing a greater number of customers ACTUAL BRAND NEW, OFF THE TRUCK examples.
jbgraham, I appreciate the adage you offered and your kind words., I just wanted to speak my peace on this issue, and will now let it rest.
~alpha