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2007 Toyota Camry

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  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,756
    "Well, then why did Lexus introduce a GS that tops 50K in AWD form but offers only 245 horses, when the Avalon starts at 26K and offers 280?"

    Because they think their customer is sophisticated enough not to equate higher hp with "better." I don't think (and let's not forget, we're all just expressing our opinions here) too many people are cross-shopping the GS and the Avalon. They appeal to totally different demographics. I'm sure there aren't many potential Lexus buyers out there thinking "why should I pay $50K for 245hp when I can get 280hp for only 60% of that price."

    I guess we'll all find out in 10 months or so.
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    Remember, the new 3.0L 245 Hp engine in the GS is a stopgap measure. I believe the 07 GS will get the 3.5L engine and be renamed the GS350. I doesn't make sense for Lexus to have a more powerful IS than GS
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,443
    I thought the GS had a V-8 for the power hungry. The 6 is for those who don't play that numbers game, and want to save a little cash.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    You are missing my point and contradicting your own comments.

    Imacmil, Your initial statement:
    "I also don't think Lexus is going to dilute the image of one of their premium cars (GS) by putting that Lexus engine in the Camry."

    And my point was essentially the following question: How would the GS and Camry sharing a 3.0L engine be any greater dilution of the Lexus brand than the cheaper Avalon trumping the GS300 in power and torque? I simply posit that it wouldnt. Toyota apparently saw little to no risk of brand dilution in having the Avalon as more powerful than a 50K Lexus GS300, which leads me to think that it would not be a major issue if the Camry uses the 3.0L engine as well.

    I agree with your statement that most people probably arent cross shopping the Avalon and GS. So, I also doubt they will cross shop the Camry and GS, further supporting my supposition, and pointing away from brand dilution should the GS and Camry use the 3.0L.

    And as motownusa stated, the GS's use of the 3.0L is interim in nature. That engine will likely be in Toyota's North American arsenal for some time, but not in the GS any longer than the 2007 or 2008 model year.

    Again, I certainly don't KNOW which V6 will appear in the Camry. My hope is that it is the 3.0L iteration of the new engine family, which I think will be a tremendous mix of power and efficiency. It would certainly be great if the 3.5L could be the the V6 in the SE model. Worst case, IMO, is that the current 3.3L (really just a version of the 3.0L introduced on the 1992 Camry in late '91) soldiers on with no increases in efficiency or power.

    ~alpha
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    The 4.3L V8 engine in the GS will be replaced by a 4.6L engine by MY 07 or 08 that should boost Horspower from 300 to around 350. The 4.3L engine "only" has about 300 HP, whereas the Infiniti M45 produces 335 and the BMW 545 produces 325 HP. All car makers including Toyota seems to be caught up in this Horsepower war. As long as they can keep MPG high and prices low I am all for it.

    P.S. --- Somehow I get the feeling that high performance cars don't thrill you :)
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    The GS is getting a hybrid version, which, seeing how Lexus did the RX400h, be geared towards better performance than really high MPG numbers...
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,443
    I like high performance cars, just think hp for its own sake is ridiculous. No acounting of transmision, vehicle weight, dynamics etc. I much prefer efficient, light and nimble to large and powerfull, but not much (if any) quicker. To me a Lotus Elise with less than 200 hp is far more desireable than a Mustang GT/ Vette etc.

    That is why I like the 4-cyl manual tranny Camry. It is efficient, quick, fun to drive (thanks to manual) and has room for my kids. Best part is they go for not much over 16k. I enjoy not having to pay for equipment I would prefer not to have - sunroof, spoiler, auto trans etc. I would put the Accord in the same category, but it is a little more expensive, and it has a smaller trunk and no split folding rear seat.

    I look forward to the new 4-cyl model. I would guess it will have nearly 170 hp and will get 25/35 mpg.
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Posts: 729
    and 160HP, I don't see that being different enough of a redesign.

    The difference will be more significant than that, and Toyota has learned from Honda that power doesn't sell to this class of buyer.

    Toyota's fuel economy is hot now, so expect to see them keep up the momentum with 3MPG better, with a small bump in HP.

    DrFill
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    I missed that, and thanks for the info! :-)

    The GS is most likely getting the 3.0 this year because putting in the 3.5 would put it too near the 4.3's output. Toyota is being "squeezed from the top" in the Lexus division. In that light, it makes a lot more sense for the GS to get the 3.5 and the new 4.6 next year, and for Camry to then get the new 3.0 from the outset and keep it for 5 years.

    I must say I am quite impressed if that is truly the plan. The new 3.0, while "only" putting out 245 hp, is very advanced technologically. For Camry to get it as the new optional engine for MY '07 is significant given Camry's mission and price.

    Does anyone besides me think those fuzzy pics supposedly of the new Camry a ways back looked so much like the Avalon that they might just BE the Avalon, fuzzied up by someone at their home computer? If that really is the new Camry, then they have applied really nice styling to this model for the first time in a decade (IMO), but it looks too similar to Avalon.

    My, how I DO love speculation! :D

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    and also the photos that were shown of the Camry were allegedly taken on the sly at some exclusive Toyota event- thats why that centerpiece rose thing is in the middle of each picture. allegedly.

    ~alpha
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    look a lot like the Avalon, but I think they're close, but I may be wrong.

    Remember those original Sienna pictures from The Hollywood Extra that showed the Sienna having four swing out doors? That Sienna looks a lot different from the one Toyota sells now. :)
  • gpoltgpolt Posts: 113
    Is it safe to assume that the likelihood of a V6 married to a manual transmission [recall the '97 - '01 vintage] is slim and none? :( :( :(

    If Toyota bothers to accomodate the limited number of economy-minded buyers (4 cyl 5 speed), how difficulty could it be to do the same for the benefit of the limited number of performance-minded buyers (6cyl, 5 speed)? Acura does [TL]; Honda does [Accord Coupe]; Mazda does [Mazda 6 "s" sedan, hatchback & wagon].
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    if Toyota EVER puts a V-6 and a manual shift together again for the Camry, I will eat my hat. That Camry V-6 manual in the last gen was CE trim only, wasn't it? And it never sold...in fact, I didn't know it hung in there until '01, I thought it was like a 2-year thing they quickly cancelled for lack of interest.

    The question really is, where is the 6-speed automatic in Toyota's future? I don't think there is going to be one for the '07 Camry, but they should think about doing that for the Camry at some point.

    On the flip side, does anyone think the '07 Camry will be the first one ever that is automatic-only? And hey Toyota, how about getting some tiptronic-style shifting in there for the auto? That is becoming increasingly popular - Hyundai for one has it on most automatic models. In a model labelled 'SE' for sport, you should really be able to order the shift yourself, even if you don't actually hit the clutch.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,443
    Don't know about CE only for the V-6 and manual. An elderly lady in town drives one (hardly the target market) and it has factory leather. I dont think leather was available on a CE.

    That would be horrible if the '07 was automatic only, but it would not suprise me.
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,756
    "How would the GS and Camry sharing a 3.0L engine be any greater dilution of the Lexus brand..."

    A minor point: the GS and Camry never shared the same engine. The previous 3 liter was the in-line 6 used also in the IS.

    Let's reconvene when the new Camry arrives and see what Toyota did. :)
  • 307web307web Posts: 1,033
    There is rumor that the V6 will have 270HP. Maybe just the SEV6 or could be all V6s.
    If that is true, then it will most likely be a detuned Avalon engine and the 2007 ES350 would then probably have 280+ HP.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    Had a V6 CE 5spd.in the first couple years....

    Then they started selling V6LE 5spds.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Posts: 932
    I remember those Sienna "spy pictures." They were actually of the Toyota WISH van sold in Japan I believe. However, it's not only the Hollywood Extra site that's showing those images and they are virtually indesputably a Camry. Even if one discounts the badging, look at the side profile of the car. It's a Camry.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    True, but the pictures could be waaaay off...

    I remember speculation about the Sienna was that they were building a "Sport" model...
  • Does anyone have a list of what the difference between the 2005 and 2006 Toyota Camry is?
  • "here are some features I think could make it into the next camry:

    2.5L 4cylinder (170-175 hp)
    3.5L 6cylinder (240-250 hp)
    hybrid engine (confirmed)
    smart entry and start system
    Dual Climate Control
    Side Airbags standard
    Dynamic Laser Cruise Control
    folding side-mirrors
    Power Rear Sunshade
    Adaptive Front Lighting System (XLE)
    HID headlamps (SE,XLE)
    LED brakelamps
    Bluetooth (option in current Prius)
    Navigation & CD changer in dash (only single
    CD player avail. now with nav system)"

    Bklynguy,

    Is this for the 2006 Camry?
  • 307web307web Posts: 1,033
    That is what someone "thinks."
    Useless.
    Any optional HID lights that fit other models would be promptly stolen.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    Because a lot these things are going to probably be added because the Accord has them (dual-zone climate control)

    HIDs won't be stolen that fast..the Maxima and previous Acura TL had theft issues, but neither has since had that problem...

    Altima doesn't have that problem either...

    So I doubt that the HIDs being stolen will be a problem
  • bklynguybklynguy Posts: 275
    "Useless."

    These are educated guesses / observations based on several factors:

    - the competition (dual-climate control in the current Accord for example)
    - 2005 Avalon features
    - new engines for other Toyota/Lexus models
    - trends in the automotive industry ( LED taillamps, HID headlights, Smart-Start are some examples)
    - "spys" (people who have access to pictures, specs, prototypes, etc.)
  • 307web307web Posts: 1,033
    It's useless since anyone could have guessed those things. Everyone can assume that it will probably have most features that most of the similarly priced competition has.
    Other things that are on cars in higher price classes like Avalon and Lexus are much less likely or people will say "why should I buy an Avalon or ES350 when I can get 99% of the same features (like laser cruise, smart start, HIDs and power sunshade) for much less money.
    Some ES330 buyers just want the name and Lexus warranty, but most people want to feel like they are getting many tangible features that Camrys drivers can't have. Toyota also would want people on the fence to have more reasons to make the jump to Lexus.
    They don't necessarily have every feature available on ever other car. Just because you can get HIDs on an Altima, doesn't mean Toyota is threatened enough by that to add them to the Camry or they could have done so already. The Altima has had HIDs available for years.
    When HID lights are optional and can be retrofitted later on cheaper models, there is a big black market for stolen lights.
  • Toyota said that if parts are retrofitted aftermarket and they are traced back as being the reason for their being a problem with the vechicle the warranty is voided.
  • bklynguybklynguy Posts: 275
    "When HID lights are optional and can be retrofitted later on cheaper models, there is a big black market for stolen lights."

    Is there a black market for the 2005 Avalon ? (for XL owners who want HIDs)
  • Don't count on the 06 Camry getting folding side mirrors. The new Avalon doesn't have them and it's a more expensive car.
    I would refuse to buy any new car without folding side mirrors. I'm in NY. Cars everywhere with mirrors knocked off.
  • bklynguybklynguy Posts: 275
    "Don't count on the 06 Camry getting folding side mirrors."

    I think you mean the 07 Camry. Folding mirrors should be standard on the Camry. We also live in New York and see missing/damaged mirrors everyday.
  • carzzzcarzzz Posts: 282
    That's crazy.... It would be quite beneficial if toyota make the mirrors "forward" foldable like Rendezvous...
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