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The Future of Saab?

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  • Like it or not, Saab had to clone or die. Most of this cloning is stop-gap until Saab can put its own products on the market based on GM platforms. Anyone who thinks the rest of the automotive world doesn't do this is a fool: Ford/Mazda-Volvo, Volswagen-Audi, Nissan-Infiniti, Toyota-Lexus. IMHO the turn-around that Saab is seeing will continue, and GM has purchased a sport/luxury brand whose qualities will hopefully ripple through the conglomerate.

    http://www.mississauga.com/mi/insidenews/story/2175583p-2521061c.- html
  • "Anyone who thinks the rest of the automotive world doesn't do this is a fool: Ford/Mazda-Volvo, Volswagen-Audi, Nissan-Infiniti, Toyota-Lexus."

    Not one of those examples comes close to GM's use of the GMT-360 which has spawned the latest of Saabs:

    - Chevy Trailblazer/Trailblazer EXT

    - GMC Envoy/ Envoy XL

    - Isuzu Ascender

    - Buick Rainier

    - Saab 9-7

    - Olds Bravada (gone after 04')

    Minimal effort for maximum $$$, GM's Trademark. Once again, with a WRX, a Malibu, and yet another Trailblazer in the lineup, GM has created yet another clone of itself. "The State of Independence" is more like "The Return of Oldsmobile".
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,669
    like GM clones. A splash of plastic here, a fresh badge there, and voila! We are expected to believe it is now a totally different vehicle worthy of the new brand name on the front of the car.

    Not the same as Focus/S40/Mazda3. Not the same as A4/Passat either. Toyota does clone the Camry V-6, the LC, and the 4Runner for Lexus, so that is a fairer accusation in their case. The only truly cloned Nissans are the Maxima for the Infiniti I35, which is about to go away, and the Armada for the QX. All of those companies have multiple other models that are unique to each brand. What does Saab have?

    I was prepared to believe the line that the current models are a place marker until new Saab-developed models can get to market, at least until I read that GM is folding Saab engineering into a larger European design center in common with Opel, that Saabs will now be built in America while they use Saab's factories for something else, and that the "all new" 9-6 will actually be a rebadged Subaru Tribeca, the 7-passenger crossover Subie is developing for release next year.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    Isuzu is not GM

    Isuzu buys a platform from GM but GM otherwise has nothing to do with it. Your including Isuzu there would be like saying Honda made the Sterling.

    As you point out, Olds is gone. That leaves 4 variations.
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,807
    We do back-to-back Saab and Subaru chats every Thursday. Drop in tonight and we can discuss the future (or lack thereof) of Saab!

    PF Flyer
    Host
    Pickups & News & Views Message Boards


    Chat is on TONIGHT. Check out the schedule

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,730
    Not even in part? GM has some say don't you think?

    http://www.cis.wayne.edu/mcopper/gmisuzu.html

    http://www.miru.com/supergroups.htm

    The date of the second site is found by clicking on the home page.
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,807
    Saab chat tonight (just before the Subaru Crew) be sure to follow the link below to check out the schedule!

    PF Flyer
    Host
    Pickups & News & Views Message Boards


    Chat is on TONIGHT. Check out the schedule

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • Let me begin by saying that I am a former owner of a Saab 9-5, which was very good to me.

    I believe that Ford and GM models are too similar. Let me put it this way, the Ford Five Hundred and the Mercury Montego, like the Ford Taurus and the Mercury Sable, look practically the same. The Chevy Tahoe looks pretty much like the Caddy Escalade.

    What these companies need to do is make their cars more Toyota/Lexus like. When you sit in a Lexus, you don't think "Toyota". One cannot say the same about sitting in the Escalade, you think "Chevy". GM needs to create greater diversity within its products.

    Saab could be the Swedish Lexus, but Volvo is going to far. Saab needs to be turned around. The first thing they need to do is stop this Saabaru nonsense. They need to take the 9-5, redesign it completely, but still with Saabness in it, and then put it in the market as a Cadillac STS type large car for midsize price. It should fall in between Lexus ES and GS in form, but should price closer to the ES.

    Then, GM needs a flagship to compete with the Mercedes S Class or BMW 7 Series. Why not put a Saab badge on it. I see a Saab 9-9. An ultraluxury car. It would do Saab wonders.

    After that, Saab needs to make the 9-3 more 3 series like, with a larger size and more luxury. Then, you need a sedan in between the 9-5 and 9-9, a CLS-type vehicle. This needs to be value oriented ultralux, a new term.

    Saab could be the next jewel of that automotive kingdom. GM can make it happen.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    To make Saab become an automotive jewel that actually is compared with BMW, Mercedes Benz and Audi, Saab needs to find a distinct personality and create world class cars. Few ways:

    Redesign the Saab 9-2X to become more like an Audi A3, with a 4 door hatchback and a convertible, and with loads of great optional and standard equipment like an optional navigation system, heated/cooled seats, etc.

    Redesign the Saab 9-3 to become more like a 3-Series. The current generation is a step in the right direction, but GM needs to add on to its current formula with more features, a better interior, better rear seat space, a hatchback version possibly too. Navigation Systems should be standard accross the board for the 9-3 and up cars to make it a great value.

    Create a new Saab 9-4, a crossover that's about 9-2 sized but taller with AWD, etc.

    Redesign the Saab 9-5 to become a 5-Series competitor with more room, a better price, more equipment, a better driving experience and better quality.

    Create a Saab 9-6, which is kinda like a 9-3X crossover. Could be called 9-6. Could be called 9-3X. This name might be reserved for the Subaru Tribeca.

    Drop the Saab 9-7X. The 9-6/Tribeca fills the niche of the 9-7X. We don't need a Tahoe sized Saab.

    The need for a 7-Series competitor is questionable IMO. But if they do build one, it has to just blow the 7-Series away. This one could be a lot harder than the other projects, but if GM really put $$$$ and brains to it, I can see it happening.

    Keep the 9-3 Convertible. It's holding its own against the Mercedes CLK and Audi A4. But redesign it to be better. Read comments on 9-3 for the convertible.

    And keep the ignition on the floor. It adds to the character of all Saabs.
  • What is with perception, in the last 2 posts, that the 3 series has more room than the 9-3? It doesn't

    Exterior 9-3 3 Series
    Length 182.5 in. 176 in.
    Width 69 in. 68.5 in.
    Height 56.8 in. 55.7 in.
    Weight 3240 lbs. 3285 lbs.
    Wheel Base 105.3 in. 107.3 in.

    Interior 9-3 3 Series
    Front Headroom 38.9 in. 38.4 in.
    Rear Headroom 37 in. 37.5 in.
    Front Shoulder Room 56.3 in. 54.4 in.
    Rear Shoulder Room 55.1 in. 54.2 in.
    Front Leg Room 42.3 in. 41.4 in.
    Rear Leg Room 35.1 in. 34.6 in.
    Maximum Luggage Capacity 14.8 cu.ft. 10.7 cu.ft.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,383
    that a 9-5 has more room than a BMW 5er as well. Saabs have always been known for delivering a lot of interior space for cars that aren't big outside.

    Saw a 9-2X Aero with dealer loaner livery on it and realized I have seen very few around, that's not a good sign considering that Saabs and Subies are both popular in this area.
  • I haven't seen any 9-2x's on the road. Not one. The sales figures have been a few hundred a month, which is amazingly pathetic. They just cracked the 1,000 barrier in October, after release in June
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Both cars seem to be a bit short on rear seat room compared to the Acura TL.
  • I think that may be a common misconception because the TL is a bigger car. Seems to me that that Acura did not maximize the space. About the same size back seat, much smaller trunk than Saab

    Exterior 9-3 TL
    Length 182.5 in. 189.3 in.
    Width 69 in. 72.2 in.
     
    Interior 9-3 TL
    Rear Headroom 37 in. 37.2 in.
    Rear Shoulder Room 55.1 in. 55.7 in.
    Rear Hip Room Not Published 53.8 in.
    Rear Leg Room 35.1 in. 34.9 in.
    Maximum Luggage Capacity 14.8 cu.ft. 12.5 cu.ft.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    That misconception fooled me. The Saab just seems that much smaller than the Acura. Seems like the Saab has more room, which leads me to my next question: Why does CR harp on their opinion that the 9-3 has a very uncomfortable backseat, when it has more room than the TL, its top rated entry level luxury sedan?
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    Well, without looking to see what Consumer Reports actually said, my guess is that the seat isn't shaped properly or is too low.
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,730
    that the future of Saab now that GM has it will be less quirky cars and a few more sales. while some my not care for the loss of "character" it was that character that put their head on the chopping block in the first place. Yes, I freely admit that if you were part of the Saab faithful you got a different kind of car. But the Saab faithful weren't numerous enough and they simply didn't buy enough to stay true to the family tree. So today Saab is becoming something different again, but not the way we were used to it. GM is like Microsoft. They absorb other companies so it is only natural to see more GM and GM partners in Saab.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,446
    we leased a 9-5 for 3 years. i thought it was a great looking car, and pretty efficient. basically the dealer screwed with it whenever i took it in for service, so it wasn't a good experience. this had turned away a lot of potential repeat customers for saab. in other words, i'm not the only one.
  • Well, without looking to see what Consumer Reports actually said, my guess is that the seat isn't shaped properly or is too low. <<

    Isn't the height of the seat related to leg room (where Saab is slightly higher?)
  • saab9xsaab9x Posts: 12
    //

    the only saab i see in my future is the
    9-3x, but not if it's that "paddle"/
    sequential-shifting "business." (if
    there's no manual transmission option,
    "no deal." i'm jumping ship.)

    meanwhile, i have to deal with 9-2x/9-7x
    nightmares.

    kthxbye.

    b.

    //
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