Honda Odyssey 2005+

heywood1

You need to re-read my post. I was making a relative comparison. Odyssey EX-L has RES, and my Sienna XLE has AWD. Let's just assume AWD and RES are of equal value (and I believe AWD is worth more). The Sienna then has power lift gate and tilt steering wheel that Ody lacks. Street prices make the Sienna only $800 more. One could make the argument that the liftgate and tilt wheel are worth this $800 difference, which would eliminate any 'value' advantage for Honda--especially the 'for thousands less' argument I keep reading on this board.

heywood1

I'm glad to hear it. Are you anywhere near PA? Next time I'm shopping for a car, maybe I'll re-consider Honda. Their smug salespeople chased me to Toyota back in 2002.

ctsang

Let face it, Honda has been beating Toyota in minivan since day 1 in value and function. Just read past years auto magazines.
Too bad you couldn't wait till 05 ody comes out before you bought your sienna.

jimxo

This is our first minivan so to have 2 well made cars to choose from is great.

The new Ody will be here any day now and even with the new Ody hype I'm still hot for the Sienna so who gets my money is still up for grabs.

The Ody has a better Nav and Res but I drive Lexus cars the last 10 yrs and Sienna feels very much like a Lexus.

Cheers!

lumbar

I think we've gone over the fact that you've picked the value "sweetspot" for the Sienna despite the fact that the equation will change over time. So no need to belabor that.

But you also omit the existence of the Variable Cylinder Management system in the EX-L Honda while noting less significant items like a tilt wheel (and even power lift gate) in the Toyota. I have no problem with this, since those items are present, but you might at least give the Honda a fair shake on what actually appears to be a serious attempt to get better fuel mileage.

doug889

Just came back from a Honda dealership in Maryland 10 minutes ago. They got four 05 Ody. I went to check out the touring model. I was in a rush so didn't really look at the thing in details. It was a touring WITHOUT NAV and RES. MSRP is $35,500. The dealer added some stuff and some other fees to bump the price to $37,685. That's WITHOUT NAV and RES, people. I told the salesman it was a minivan, not Cindy Crowford. I had to run and that was it. Maybe there are people who are more generous than me out there to pay that kind of price.

kalp1970

Just saw an 05 EX-L (8passenger) with RES and an 05 Touring (no NAV or RES) The prices were 35K /37K including a $2699 (dealer adjustment fee)! They were still prepping the car so no test drives.

My quick impressions were:

The 8th pass seat in the LX is for really small people. To stow the extra set in the car the Lazy Susan storage is virtually unusable.

Honda made a mistake by only offering the power liftgate on the touring, it should have been an option on the EX-L.

The RES screen in the Honda 9" dwarfs the one on 04 Sienna (7"-?), I saw last weekend.

alexmish

This is what I found out from a number of dealers... I am yet to see anyone on this site, or odyclub, or 5 dealers around me, to get TOURING R&N.. I was also told that they make them "in batches", which is good from the point of view for those who wants a specific color/feature - less chances "your car" will get traded to another dealership which is ready to pay premium for it as it will be selling it with a mark up !

bsacco

We are looking at selling our Volvo V70R for a Honda Ody '05.

What I'm interested in knowing is what folks think are the worthwhile features to buy and the ones to forget.

Personally, we are interested in the EX with Leather. Now, is the NAV, DVD worth the extra cost.

Also, what is it about the Touring model that makes it so expensive. What are you really paying extra for?

dex

I have waited 3 months for the 05 Odyssey and I just test drove an EX-L two hours ago even though it's the Touring I want. It's terrific ... drives great, exterior is great, interior is nice but not great. MSRP was just over $35k for the Touring (no RES/Nav) which is consistent with what I have seen in this forum. Dealer had added on a $1K markup simply because they said it's in great demand. My drive out price was over $41k. Simply put, it's just too expensive for me and I will be looking at alternative vehicles. Problem is I want a leather steering wheel and power tailgate and thus I have to get the Touring. I could be wrong, but my uneducated guess is that they will start to discount them in the next couple months since I cannot see folks forking over that kind of money for a minivan.

player4

Just got 1 2005 Odyssey Touring, they told me theyre gonna keep it in the showroom for now. Im gonna go tomorrow to take a look at it, ill try to take pics im not sure tho.

dex

Sorry I forgot to mention that the price of just over $35k for the Touring included the destination fee.

dex

I agree about the 8th seat. I tried to sit in it and it was way too small for any sized adult. It's good perhaps for a 7 or 8 year old but not much bigger.

dex

Very interesting ... just got a call from the dealership shere I saw the Touring and they had a dealer markup of $1K on the sticker. They tol;d me that they would now do it at MSRP, no dealer markup. Things are getting a little better but it's still a little too pricey right now for my blood.

cooldad24

I think those dealers charging mark up are out of their mind. They still stay in 1999 era and think there is no competitor like then. If you can wait, the price will drop back to MSRP or even lower due to discount from others including Sienna. Plus the Tranny concern and Honda so far haven't give much words on this issue. Toyota missed a good chance to lead when they set the MSRP and packaging. If they shed $2k from their upper line, many potential customers won't hesitate to seach alternative and end up waiting for Ody. So if Honda mess it again, they will return to Totoya dealers due to more reasonable final price now compare to price jacked Ody.

mchen70

I know it won't, but I hope the Odyssey totally flops to show both Honda and these jerk dealers that competition is strong and it's out there.

I have a 95 Civic and 92 Integra GSR and I totally love them. When I bought them, the dealers at the time seem reasonable and on the money. Now, they're just money grubbing jerks. You can't get anything new from these guys without paying a "premium" for market value. Honda has set the MSRP, so that's the value.

GO SIENNA !!! Be #1 selling Minivan.

isellhondas

WHAT???

This is how bad rumors get started.

Of course, these items aren't free to a dealer any more than the Odyssey itself is!

wahoo752002

I will test drive the 2005 odyssey just for couriosity. But I am set on an AWD Sienna which the ody does not have. A toyota dealer just emailed me that there siennas are selling at 2000 under MSRP.

bsacco

We are looking at selling our Volvo V70R for a Honda Ody '05.

What I'm interested in knowing is what folks think are the worthwhile features to buy and the ones to forget.

Personally, we are interested in the EX with Leather. Now, is the NAV, DVD worth the extra cost.

Also, what is it about the Touring model that makes it so expensive. What are you really paying extra for?

wahoo752002

With four kids in the van I dont think it matters. LOL, I just need the DVD to shut them up.

liujn

I thought I made up my mind to buy it when I first saw the newly redesigned Sienna. All along I never had any luck with Honda cars so after a couple Hondas, I purchased a couple Toyotas. Man, I could not believe how durable Toyota's cars are, and their car are equally fun to drive.

Finally I got a chance to test drive the new Sienna. However, I am very disappointed. The handling is no where closer to "Car Like". When cornering, the body rolls considerably. The steering is softer than my other Toyotas.

Have test driven several other vans, Honda is the only truly "Car Like" van. Therefore I started to shift to the Honda's side once again and hope this time I can get some lucks with the 05 Odyssey.

Since six people in my group at work own two Accords, one 02 CR-V, one 00 Odyssey, one 02 Odyssey and one 04 Pilot, I decided to talk with them first. Plus all of them are the 2nd time Honda owners. This is what suprised me. Five out of six told me Don't buy Honda. Only one Accord owner told me he is very happy with Honda. The other Accord owner had a major windshield water leakage right after the warranty was expired. CR-V owner was not happy about the actual mileage per gallon vs. Honda’s number. 00 Odyssey owner believes his 80,000 mile AT is giving away and is getting rid of it. Both 02 Odyssey and 04 Pilot owners just got their AT patches and they were mad at the dealer services and lost their confidence in Honda's reputation.

Okay, now I am back to square one; Sienna or Odyssey? Reliability or handling? Better service or worse service? Better warranty or worse warranty? The list can go on and on. Am I the only one strugglling? At least, now I know I am not the only person felt so unlucky with Honda. Interesting enough, when I ask all the people who have or had Toyotas, none of them had any bad experiences with their Toyotas. Weird... since many of you are so happy with your Hondas.

cleancarboy

I just left a dealership that received three 05 Odysseys this afternoon. One Touring, one EX-L and one EX. The sticker on the Touring was $35K with a $5K mark-up bringing the total to right over $40K (this Touring model didn't have the nav system or DVD either). I was told it was another $1500 just to add the DVD. The EX-L model included the DVD (atleast on the model they had, but obviously it's still an option) and they wanted $36,400 for it, after a $4K markup from $32,400. You'll also be interested to know that I was able to take the eighth seat from the EX-L and put it into the Touring model without any trouble. I am not sure if one could buy an eighth seat for the Touring as an option, but it fits. I love this van but can't bring myself to pay what Honda is asking. Wait for a couple months and watch the pricing fall.

ggs

I'm sure any dealership selling 05 Odysseys prior to the "Official" release date is hoping to get as much as they can out of the early adopters. Those folks who are planning to buy a van by the end of this year might end up getting better deals with the Sienna.

pluto168

That dealership is out of their mind. Shop around and you will find one that sells you at MSRP. My dealer is asking for MSRP. I'll test drive one tomorrow and see how I like it.

cleancarboy

Thanks for your input. It's nice to know that there are a few dealers out there that are offering MSRP. What model are you looking at? Let me know how it drives. Good luck.

alexmish

Yes and No. Among 4 dealers I've looked around my area (Northern NJ), 2 were selling at MSRP, and 2 were selling with Mark Up. I saw one of them adding $2K to the basic EX model (VIP Honda) - right next to the sticker paper. The other one (Planet Honda) told me $3K-$3,500 mark up, although verbally.

The 2 dealers selling @ MSRP are the ones which are in residential areas (so they want to keep their customers, which they succeeded to do with my parents), and 2 selling @ MSRP+ are the ones in "general shopping" areas closer to the NYC. It is like buying electronics in a tourists' area around Times Square - you will get overcharged for a refurbished merchandise.

SINCE THERE ARE MANY DEALERS OFFERING THEM @ MSRP, WE SHOULD NOT GIVE-IN FOR PAYING OVER MSRP, LET'S THOSE GREEDY PLACES SUFFER - I HAVE NO COMPASSION FOR THEM !

jchan2

Since there is so many dealers willing to sell at MSRP, I think it won't hurt to try to find one that will sell at MSRP.

blackexv6

Just got my '03 Accord back from the dealer with 10 items for repair. Tranny recall, several rattles, and alignment...they fixed all of the issues to my satisfaction plus gave me a loaner CRV to use.

My experience with Honda has been excellent with their service department. They make sure the customer is satisfied unlike my experiences with Ford.

This Accord is my first Honda and quite frankly hasn't lived up to the great reputation Honda holds. I am now considering the '05 Odyssey, however, I'm not sure that I want to deal with all of the first year bugs (rattles, VCM trial year, etc.).

Finally, my '94 Toyota Camry has given me 160k miles of trouble free service. However, I am being turned off with my local Toyota dealers. They are extremely arrogant and act like they are doing you a favor by selling you a car.

Just my 2 cents.

jimxo

How do I post a photo?

stever

Please see Town Hall Help (linked on the left) for pic posting instuctions - and you'll need a place to host the pics since you can't just upload them to Edmunds.

Steve, Host

andrewtran71

$5K market-up?
Are they out of their God-loving-minds?
I think the new Ody is better than the Sienna in terms of looks and features, but I would not buy one unless I can get it for $2K off MSRP.
Guess I will have to wait another year.

But I think any kind of mark-up is insane and that is music to any Toyota dealer's ears because that will most definitely drive any buyer to the nearest Toyota dealer for a Sienna at $3K-$4K off MSRP.

Bottom line: Ody is better, but better wait for prices to drop in a few months when they realize people would rather buy a Sienna for $3K off MSRP.

rrshinn

Anyone seen the Olive Interior? What tint is it? Is it more brown or gray? Any opinions? Thanks.

indy93

I just got back from test driving the 05Ody both Touring and Ex. I will buy either the 05 Sienna or the 05 Ody...but when you are going to $34,000+ on one or the other you look hard.

Touring:

Very tight body structure, solid feel.
Steering slightly numb Pax gives a dead feel.
Handling decent, reflex not sharp and crisp.
Ride smooth pavement fine , rebound from pot holes harsh.
04 Ody is more of a driver's van.
ANC helps but still not quite Sienna like.
Interior space great.
Ergonomics good but dash was designed for the nav without it audio seem like an after thought not very intuitive.
Interior materials excellent except for some cheap materials in dash console.
Styling generic like Pilot

EX

Better ride and handling.
Steering much more feedback.
Cornering easy to judge and maneuver.
Slightly More road noise.
Braking the same.
Same major features.

Sienna XLE L vs. Touring

Steering even
Ride comfort Sienna
Handling Touring
Braking even
Noise even
Overall ride Sienna
Instrumentation Touring
Ergos even
Interior space Touring
Visability Touring
Moonroof Sienna
Controls Sienna
Seating comfort Touring
Interior workmanship Sienna
Door closing sound Sienna
Wheels and tires Sienna
Headlights Sienna
Nav / Dvd Touring
Magic 3rd Seat even

Both are excellent neither is a knockout!

Winner: Ex-L
Second: Sienna and Touring

elaine

Does anybody know of any dealers in the Pacific Northwest that generally do not add dealer mark-ups?

I live in Washington State, but will drive all day to avoid paying over MSRP.

Thanks.

indy93

After the initial hype... Most all serious buyers will pay MSRP or less. Spoke with several GSM's and floor managers they will take MSRP all day long..but some will put out a mark up or dealer added package just to catch the "muches". In the case of a dealer added package the serious buyer will pick a car that has not gone through PDI first, where the adds haven't been put on yet. Any "house" dealership that insist on marking up ("pack") or on dealer adds and will not come off either quickly for a serious buyer, is what we call a "mouse house" and should be avoided. Odds are the service side of the "house" will be similar and will push extra services on the service drive needed or not.

"Remember these are Hunks of iron and metal...not jewelry"

With any dealership the job of the salesmen is to separate you from your money.

Your job is to get the most for your money! There is no friendship in during the transaction.

jimxo

What he said.

Amen

ceric

What you said are right but it is the supply and demand that dictate the price (markup, that is). If you had told me you could get an Odyssey at MSRP during 2000 or 2001 near SF Bay Area, I would have laughed so hard at you.

Anyhow, I personally do not believe the buying frazy like that would ever happen this time, Sienna being pretty competitive.

laroy76

Don't be narrow-minded and assume that all Honda dealers are "money grubbing jerks". Just because your local dealers may be crooks doesn't mean that we are all crooks. There are fair and honest dealers out there, Honda and otherwise, so don't clump everyone in the same boat.

wmanning

Hello,
Thanks for sayin that , I happen to be at a great delaership that does not mark up any vehicle , and we are the #1 in our area.
Thanks again.
bman

nelson1

Two dealers here in the Houston area have received the '05s. They are asking MSRP. I have not gone out and looked at one yet. I will try to see one tomorrow. I always make my first look on Sunday when the dealerships are closed. I can look all I want and then return if I want to talk a deal.

cabaiste

I drove the 05 today at the dealership in Nanuet, NY and am taking expecting to take delivery of my Silver EXL next week. I had placed a deposit several months ago on the 2005 and was near the top of their list.

Both my wife and I were very impressed with the EXL. The handling was excellent and the overall fit and finish inside were very good. The only complaint I have is that the sunroof is only about half-sized. It also made a racket at 45mph on my test drive. Hopefully not a sign of early model year glitches! Overall I'd say it is a better fit for my family than the Sienna, but you cant go wrong either way.

About the dealership - I've dealt with many metro New York car dealers over the years and was pleasantly surprised with the low-pressure courteous reception I received at Nanuet Honda. Their Internet Sales Manager handled the transaction professionally and honestly. Their Finance Manager didnt pull any of the little tricks I normally expect from dealerships around here.

And now for the big kicker - they are selling to all Internet Customers for $500 below MSRP.

For the record, I have no affiliaton or relationship with this dealership or any of their employees - just respect for a professional organization that treats their customers with respect.

slt

Curious whether you actually looked at and test drove a Sienna XLE limited. I am trying to decide which is the better minivan for my purposes. The only feature the Odyssey still doesn't offer is AWD. We live in Boston, snow country, and I think AWD is a must for safety. The Honda dealer I spoke to says the vehicle stability package suffices but I'm doubtful. What are your thoughts?? What do you think sets the '05 Odyssey apart from the '05 Sienna?

alexmish

I just test-drove both 05ODY EX and 05Sienna XLE Limited AWD w/HO (the top-of-the-line Sienna). Sienna did not have that car-like driving of Ody.

I visit Boston very often, and never had any problems on snow/ice in my 01ODY-EX. The traction control really works, even with the Michellin tires (which I later upgraded to Bridgestone Turanza). Our friends also drive 01ODY-EX, and never had any problems getting around the city AND suburbs.

karan

disappointed that the 2005 Odyssey does not have AWD - anyone know how well the traction will work in snow - currently have a chrysler town & country and despite the negative reports on it, its been fine in snow and in general

tripmom

I too was hoping the '05 Odyssey would have AWD. I live in Jersey and travel frequently to Boston. Have never had AWD, but have wished for it frequently. I have a '97 Dodge Caravan and am torn between the Odyssey and the AWD Sienna. Leaning heavily towards the Odyssey, but afraid I will regret the decision when the winter rolls around. Any input/advice?

jimxo

Yes, get the Sienna.

dinky100

Well folks-- LOVE IT! Drove one off the lot today! I got the EX-L DVD. So cool the little extras: brighter headlights, 3 zone climate, sunroof, sun shades, rear window controls, under floor storage, and of course the 8th seat is handy! I traded my '03 in-- didn't think there would be much difference- but there definitely IS -- SOOOO much quieter-- that makes it worth it right there!

kixo

At a SF Bay area dealer, I test drove a Touring w/out RES or NAVI. Graphite color with a light gray interior. Quiet, refined and powerful. The radio/CD looked fussy, but didn't get to try it too much. The steering wheel audio controls are great. The dash is clean and the dark color reduces windshield glare. I was less impressed with some of the fit and finish. Some of the plastics in the door and rear cabin had large gaps, and the headliner wasn't folded in properly, so some edges stuck out.

The MIS was a cool feature; and I expect it migrate down to the EXs in a couple of years.

The VIN was xx364, so it was an early build.

The salesperson showed me some of the MSRPs, which include dest. charge:

EX (w/cloth): $28,510 / 04 EX: $26,990
EX-L: $30,810 / 04 EX-L: $28,490
EX-L RES: $32,410
EX-L Touring: 35,010

The dealer was asking $3000 over MSRP.

As expected, Honda really jacked up the price of the EX-L (by 8%), probably because it comprises about 50 percent of total Odyssey sales.

alexmish

Before getting the Sienna, consider that it has EPA 18/21, while Ody has 20/28 (EX-L and Touring). Given that you might get to use AWD maybe 10 days a year, do the math !

AWD by itself is not always enough to get thru high unplowed snow. You need to have high clearance, which you are not getting with Sienna. You might get an incremental 10% of performance, but given that Sienna has less-powerful engine, you probably will not feel it.

mochisushi

I live in the Denver metro area. Had our '99 for four winters (98K miles in 50 months). NEVER ONCE got stuck on the roads (driveway, yes, but not the roads). In fact, when we had our March blizzard in 2003, we had M&S tires on the Ody (got a good deal on returned tires (less than a few hundred miles)at Discount Tire). It did at least as good as my Pilot while trying to get out of the driveway. The Pilot sank into the snow and dug itself in and I had to dig it out. But with the Ody, when it dug itself in, it still got traction to pull itself forward again. YES, the tires were everything (M&S versus Goodyear All Season, but I was still impressed.

Now, getting going from a stop is no comparison with the Pilot. AWD is definitely better. But my wife or I weren't sitting there spinning my wheels blocking traffic either.